How are you dealing with the GDPR?

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How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by spikespiegel » Fri May 25, 2018 7:21 pm

Did you read the news? Apparently Europeans aren't doing a thing about the European Union cookie policies. Now we have the GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation), what's even worse than a simple cookie consent and I'm seriously thinking about blocking traffic from Europe.

What are your approaches on this? Is there any extension that can solve the rules part? Or any extension that can block traffic from that continent?

This is serious, look:
https://www.technologyreview.com/the-do ... ady-chaos/
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/96 ... app-google
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44252327
Last edited by imanickam on Sat May 26, 2018 3:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Moved the topic from the forum General Questions/New to Joomla! 3.x to the forum The Lounge

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by AMurray » Fri May 25, 2018 11:11 pm

I suppose there are security tools that can block traffic. Like Akeeba Tools and many other fire-wall types.

Start with those listed here: https://extensions.joomla.org/category/ ... -security/
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by spikespiegel » Mon May 28, 2018 6:26 am

It should be something that uses GeoIP.

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by pe7er » Mon May 28, 2018 6:46 am

spikespiegel wrote:Did you read the news? Apparently Europeans aren't doing a thing about the European Union cookie policies. Now we have the GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation), what's even worse than a simple cookie consent and I'm seriously thinking about blocking traffic from Europe.
Blocking traffic from certain IP addresses is IMHO a very bad solution.

What do you do with your regular US visitors that are on holiday in Europe (and using an European IP address) who want to visit your site?

What do you do with European citizens that are using an US VPN to access your site?
The EU GDPR rules regarding the processing and protecting of their privacy still applies to them...

spikespiegel wrote:What are your approaches on this? Is there any extension that can solve the rules part? Or any extension that can block traffic from that continent?
It's not that hard to comply with the GDPR. In short:
  • You have to be aware about what personal data you collect.
  • You have to create a processing index of the data that you process (who's data do you collect, what's the legal base, how long do you keep it, with whom do you share it?) and how you protect it.
  • You have to create a privacy statement so that you are transparent for your visitors about what data you process.
  • You have to safeguard the data when you share it with 3rd parties (e.g. hosting company) using processor contracts.
If you are GDPR compliant, you'll show your visitors that you care about their privacy.
Which is also a good USP for your American visitors.
Actually, more and more US companies (Microsoft, Facebook) have stated that they will enforce the same privacy policy for its non-US users.
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by gws » Mon May 28, 2018 6:48 am

Just a thought.

I wonder if a simple message on the site (non European sites) saying EU citizens we do not comply with the GDPR would be sufficient? Perhaps with a check box to acknowledge this on your contact form.

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by infograf768 » Mon May 28, 2018 7:55 am

FYI, some aspects of the solution are being worked on

https://github.com/joomla-projects/privacy-framework
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by infograf768 » Mon May 28, 2018 8:07 am

This would also help I guess
https://www.washingtonpost.com/privacy- ... e6923f946f
see towards the end
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by Webdongle » Mon May 28, 2018 9:23 am

gws wrote:...
I wonder if a simple message on the site (non European sites) saying EU citizens we do not comply with the GDPR would be sufficient? ...
Yeah a signed confession :laugh:
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by abernyte » Mon May 28, 2018 10:28 am

Are any of the sites processing personal data?

No -----end.

Yes --Are any of the users whose data are processed citizens of the EU?
Yes --Comply with GDPR
No-- Continue to abuse the users personal privacy at will.

That's what GDPR says. Slimy corporate lawyers may have a different view depending how far they are from Brussels.
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by mandville » Mon May 28, 2018 1:27 pm

actually i thought it was EU data subjects not citizens. you could always try and ban anyone from the EU going to your site but VPN, annonymouse would get round it and you fall foul, or indeed any EU country passport holder on holiday in south america [example] visiting on your site is still a EU data subject.
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by abernyte » Mon May 28, 2018 1:54 pm

Yes indeed, more properly a Data Subject or even any one within the jurisdiction of the EU when the data is processed.
The recital states. “The EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) replaces the Data Protection Directive 95/46/EC and was designed to harmonize data privacy laws across Europe, to protect and empower all EU citizens data privacy and to reshape the way organizations across the region approach data privacy.” – www.eugdpr.org

But Article 3 does refer to GDPR applying to "anyone in the Union"
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by spikespiegel » Mon May 28, 2018 11:12 pm

Blocking traffic from certain IP addresses is IMHO a very bad solution.
The Los Angeles Times was one of the businesses that blocked traffic with the promise they were going to search for a solution. Of course that they're not going to block European forever, but if even them had a hard time, imagine us humans.
What do you do with your regular US visitors that are on holiday in Europe (and using an European IP address) who want to visit your site?
Nothing, my visitors are Brazilian. Yet, nothing.
What do you do with European citizens that are using an US VPN to access your site?
The EU GDPR rules regarding the processing and protecting of their privacy still applies to them...
From a libertarian point, Statist regulations shouldn't even exist, but still, I never said I'm not going to comply, but I need to block them anyway. So is this about getting data from any European or just from European that lives in the EU territory? That part is pretty dubious and I have seen people questioning that before.
It's not that hard to comply with the GDPR. In short:
  • You have to be aware about what personal data you collect.
  • You have to create a processing index of the data that you process (who's data do you collect, what's the legal base, how long do you keep it, with whom do you share it?) and how you protect it.
  • You have to create a privacy statement so that you are transparent for your visitors about what data you process.
  • You have to safeguard the data when you share it with 3rd parties (e.g. hosting company) using processor contracts.
You make it look like a piece of cake. You're not even considering the fact that 80% of the online businesses aren't going to be able to meet all the demands. And you're forgetting about the loopholes and all the opportunists that are going to make money with this by hunting people down because people "haven't" followed the rules.
If you are GDPR compliant, you'll show your visitors that you care about their privacy.
Which is also a good USP for your American visitors.
Actually, more and more US companies (Microsoft, Facebook) have stated that they will enforce the same privacy policy for its non-US users.
I'm a compliant because I'm forced to, not because I like it. And before somebody comes and say "So you don't care about your visitors privacy?", of course I do, for that very reason I never leaked any info from my mail list, the point is: This is the internet, if you won't want your info to be at risk, don't use it. People's data and money aren't even safe with bank sites, will they ever be safe with some neototalitarian regulation created by people that won't even know how to install an app in a phone? History is clear about this with totalitarian governments: Every type of regulation prejudice people, not just businesses, people in general. If you can't do business, you can't make money, people can't be employed and they can't feed their families. I know this example is a bit exaggerated in this context, but the internet is not what it was in 1999, there are entire businesses depending on it today.

This GDPR should have been treated as the joke it is when it first came out in 2016, nothing good can come from bureaucrats. But we complied when we had the chance to refuse it, now we have no choice but to comply with it's absurd laws, even lawyers aren't prepared for this.

When Alexander the great invaded nations, guess who he never killed? Bureaucrats, why? Because they make laws to control people by force.

Well, so I need to comply, I'm going to comply, but I don't want any trouble, for a while I'm going to block everyone, or perhaps I leave them blocked forever, but with the compliance still there with the new privacy terms. That's a form of protest too, we can't just let European Union do as they please. They shouldn't even exist in the first place, UK is proof. :)

Which will be their demands in the future? Shut down our businesses? They'll only stop when someone stops them.

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by abernyte » Tue May 29, 2018 2:53 am

You seem to have totally missed the point of these Regulations.
This is not something imposed on a long suffering, downtrodden population. It has been in discussion with countries, individuals and business across the world since 2012 and if you don't like it, then just wait until you see the 2018/19 ePrivacy Directive,which is the parent legislation of GDPR and will soon be ratified.

Both are being introduced to protect and preserve the privacy of the individual citizen because of the outrageous behaviour of organisations who have utterly abused their data in pursuit of a fast buck.
Far from being treated as a joke we should be welcoming the fact that at least somewhere in the world civic society isn't treating the public with contempt or just a bundle of data to be bought and abused.
The EU isn't doing as they please....it is doing as we please. It is regulation built by elected officials from across Europe, agreed by the EU Parliament and ratified by the heads of all 27 Governments.

It's called democracy (from the Greek, demos - the common people - Alexander knew about them too)...you may have heard of it.
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by spikespiegel » Tue May 29, 2018 4:00 am

This is an automatic reply: I can't reply a user called abernyte because I need his consent to do so. Once he allows me to do so I'm going to be happy to give him the debate of his life if he thinks he can just Google Democracy meaning in urban dictionary and talk to me like I'm a rookie in politics. But for that I would also need the admin's consent too, which he surely would deny.
But abernyte is lucky because I'm a naturally identifiable cool guy and I won't report him (When he replied me without my consent) to European Union for violating GDPR 88 pages useless policy that has become a joke already World Wide, in the Web.

I've read the word Democracy somewhere. People should also know that the word Idiot also comes from the greek and it describes ignorant people that do not know a thing about political ideologies.

PS: Speaking of Democracy, it is a dictatorship in disguise and it's a lie. And I didn't give consent for the EU to legislate over my country's territory which is at least 7400 km away from any European shore.

Well, looks like this won't go anywhere. Anyone whiling to discuss with me about politics, can just Private Message me. I'll leave you guys with this article: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/25/1739 ... unny-memes

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by sozzled » Tue May 29, 2018 4:32 am

gws wrote:Just a thought.

I wonder if a simple message on the site (non European sites) saying EU citizens we do not comply with the GDPR would be sufficient? Perhaps with a check box to acknowledge this on your contact form.
I'm fairly sure that @gws wasn't being serious when he suggested this idea. Let's get one thing absolutely clear:—

A checkbox to confirm that a website—whether it's located within the EU or not—complies (or does not comply) with the GDPR is meaningless. It's about as meaningful as having a checkbox on a form that says "ticking this box will make it rain tomorrow". How can anyone have confidence that a legal "requirement" has been met (or not) just because you read it on a website somewhere on the WWW? That's just nonsense. That's why we have law courts; formal processes that test whether legal obligations have been met and what penalties should be imposed for failing to meet them.

Returning to the core question asked in the topic subject—"How am I dealing with the GDPR?—I'm "dealing with it" just fine, thank you very much. What I'm fascinated by is the bunch of nervous nellies who are going off the reservation, arguing among themselves, whether they need to "do" something or close up shop. Seriously, do we honestly believe that if the EU sneezes, the rest of the world is going to catch a cold?

Comical discussion, at best. At worst, it disturbs me that people's mental health Is easily put at risk by the rumours they read. A web-based discussion forum is not the place to obtain qualified legal help ... but what would I know? I live 10,000 Kms away on the a**e-end of the planet. :laugh:
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by infograf768 » Tue May 29, 2018 5:52 am

@spikespiegel
The totalitarian government here (at least a member of it) would appreciate you dropping political stuff for ever from this forum.

Forum Rules:
These forums are centered on Joomla, Open Source software and other Internet and computer matters. They are not a place to promote ideological, religious, or political matters. All such discussions will be deleted/closed.

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by gws » Tue May 29, 2018 6:41 am

@sozzled :pop

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by Webdongle » Tue May 29, 2018 9:01 am

abernyte wrote:... It is regulation built by elected officials from across Europe, agreed by the EU Parliament and ratified by the heads of all 27 Governments.....
No the people who made the EU law are unelected. The GDPR is a good step but the actions of the whole world are being held to ransom by a handful of unelected bureaucrats.
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by Webdongle » Tue May 29, 2018 9:19 am

infograf768 wrote:@spikespiegel
The totalitarian government here (at least a member of it) would appreciate you dropping political stuff for ever from this forum....
In fairness @abernyte brought politics into the discussion and it is relevant as it does come into "other Internet and computer matters". If it didn't then Joomla devs wouldn't be trying to make Joomla GDPR 'friendly'. The law and the affects of the law are directly related to Joomla users and their sites. Although a debate about the origin of the law might be better placed in the lounge.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by abernyte » Tue May 29, 2018 9:34 am

Since we are in the lounge we can digress temporarily :)
No the people who made the EU law are unelected
That's splitting hairs. The Commissioners of the College are appointed by their elected governments and the Commission can only legislate on matters approved by the elected member governments of the EU - they can't dream up law on any topic they choose.

GDPR was the brainchild of national elected parliaments and not EU bureaucrats, they simply delivered on the dream. A bit like the Joomla Devs!
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by gws » Tue May 29, 2018 9:38 am

abernyte wrote:
GDPR was the brainchild of national elected parliaments and not EU bureaucrats, they simply delivered on the dream. A bit like the Joomla Devs!
I agree totally.

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by OffTheMap » Tue May 29, 2018 10:00 am

I absolutely wouldn't recommend blocking traffic from European iPs, would cause more problems than solutions.

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by infograf768 » Tue May 29, 2018 10:01 am

@webdongle
Same remark.
Can't you folks refrain from politics here? Specially to write untrue stories. (See https://edps.europa.eu/data-protection/ ... ulation_en)
It does not help anyone solving the issue which is to make a site GDPR compliant.
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by Webdongle » Tue May 29, 2018 1:11 pm

@infograf768

Now I do hate injustice. @abernyte brought politics into the conversation yet you aim your request at me. Please don't deny me the opportunity to reply to the post made by @abernyte.

You have allowed his post to stand. Please allow me to refute parts of it even if you don't agree with what I put.
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by spikespiegel » Tue May 29, 2018 9:59 pm

infograf768 wrote:@spikespiegel
The totalitarian government here (at least a member of it) would appreciate you dropping political stuff for ever from this forum.

Forum Rules:
These forums are centered on Joomla, Open Source software and other Internet and computer matters. They are not a place to promote ideological, religious, or political matters. All such discussions will be deleted/closed.

JM
At any moment I called the administration totalitarian, what I meant was that the administration wouldn't allow a political debate because that's against the rules. But even though these forums are centered on Joomla, Open Source software and other Internet and computer matters, it does not discard the fact that we can and should discuss a solution for overcoming the GDPR issue, and that's why I started this topic.

So don't be unfair talking to me as if I am the one going against the rules, cause I wasn't then one who started imposing his political views in the first place, I even said I was leaving. Look at the first message, how come it is against the forum rules? But Pe7ter first message and abernyte messages are and you're not complaining.

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by spikespiegel » Tue May 29, 2018 10:11 pm

I agree with Webdongle, we weren't the ones who brought political views into this and tried to impose them in the first place. And this topic subject is not out of the rules. It's important we discuss a solution for this because it's common sense that this legislation is an absurd, just type "GDPR fail" and "GDPR joke" in Google and see how many people are either complaining or making jokes about this. The least we could do is to find a way to facilitate things for the site owners. Here in my country most people have never heard about this, even about the cookies policy, now imagine rookies getting in trouble because their CMS won't even offer them a notice about the GDPR.

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by sozzled » Tue May 29, 2018 11:04 pm

The GDPR (like the "cookie law") is a legislated instrument designed by law-makers who haven't the first idea how to actually implement it. But, whether these frameworks are well-intentioned, implementable, or whether their legislative reach extends to the far reaches of the planet, I can't understand why people are making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

Seriously? Is someone going to sue for material loss—to the tune of a million euros—because a website failed to obtain "active consent"? Or will someone go after the http://www.llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerych ... gogoch.com for not having a this-website-uses-cookies tick-and-flick box?

Perhaps we, who are conscious about the damage that human beings inflict on the world, should ask our law-makers to legislate for ...

"This motor vehicle uses diesel. Please confirm your consent before you use it."

"This bathroom faucet uses water. Please don't waste it; tap here."

"This school fête sells cookies. If you do not like cookies, do not enter the school grounds."

"This bomb uses nuclear-fissionable materials. Please do not press the big red button."

... and other equally dopey ideas.
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by MyFirstPage » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:20 pm

Are any of the sites processing personal data?

No -----end.
include 3rd Party Application like any Google Service, Maps, E-Mails,...

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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by Webdongle » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:18 pm

If a site has a 3rd party extension collects data (that Google uses) who is responsible for obtaining explicit concent?

1. The site owner for putting it on their site?
Or
2. The author of the 3rd party extension for creating it?
Or
3. Google because they are the ones using the data?

If #1 or #2 then does that absolve Google of their responsibility?
If #2 or #3 does that absolve the site owner of their responsibility?
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Re: How are you dealing with the GDPR?

Post by MyFirstPage » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:15 pm

If you an 3rd Party Plugin is deal with Personal Data People have to apply first and the dont need to!
That mean when I dont want to get tracked by Google Analytics you must make sure that I dont get tracked.
I have many information just in german sry.


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