[34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by severdia » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:20 pm

I fully agree with you, and not because I wrote the whitepaper.. :)

Yes, this idea was turned down for Joomla 1.6. I'm going to wager a guess there were two main reasons:

1) A determination that this was unnecessary because third-party extensions are available
2) Lack of resources to build it

In opposition to what you suggested, I actually am suggesting this be an integrated component. Entering into an agreement with another GPL tool (like WordPress, but not MovableType) would be like co-branding them and may or may not be desired (kinda like McDonald's serving MinuteMaid orange juice at all their locations). Maybe it's a bit of elitism on Joomla's part...

That being said, the feature set of Joomla 1.6 hasn't been officially announced so there might still be hope. :)
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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:53 am

1. severdia's orginal proposal is worth repeating, and I do this below
2. this is an important forum, and it needs to be revived
3. why is there no answer from anybody on the joomla team to the issues here?
4. the obvious answer to the proposal here is that the MyBlog extension will do all of this (though it would be great if someone could relate its parts to the proposal here, part by part) .. is that a good answer? will MyBlog serve? is the issue not so much functionality as whether there are any advantages (and if what are they) to doing this in the core?
5. the multi-blogger aspect of this needs further elaboration .. can each registered user select his or her own categories, for example, or are these set by the administrator -- or can they both set categories, a sort of master category and a sort of child category?
6. how much work would be involved in implementing this in the core?

to repeat the orginal proposal:
1. INTRODUCTION
For years now, blogging has been a popular application and CMSs have struggled to provide simple and non-technical ways to integrate user blogs. Also, competing CMS solutions have blogging functionality built in and Joomla needs this out-of-the-box to remain on par. The ease of setup cannot be stressed enough. It must be just as easy (or easier) to set up than MT or WP.

2. SCOPE
The Multi-Blog component should be simple and ready go upon enabling. With simplicity and ease of use first and foremost, there are four primary sections and a Home page.

1) Home: This is the control panel where the user would jump to the four other sections.

2) Post a New Entry:

Page for posting a new entry would contain the following elements:
a) Posting Title
b) Posting Body- With Joomla HTML editor chosen in config (Add/upload photo through editor), Excerpt & Read More divider (a la Articles in J1.5)
c) Choose Categories
d) Default date/Change Date mini-calendar chooser
e) Allow/Disable Comments for this post checkbox


3) Comments:

Page for Moderating Comments would contain the following elements:
a) Comments Moderation Queue/Edit/Delete, Requirements to post
b) Ban IP/Username/Email, Blacklist


4) Blog Admin/Config:

Admin page for this specific blog would contain the following elements:
a) Blog Title & Tagline, # of posts/page
b) Posts Edit/Delete
c) Categories New/Edit/Delete/Make Default
d) Tags
e) Pingbacks/Trackbacks
f) Timezone
g) Blog template


5) Global Admin/Config:

The Global Admin page would give global control over all live blogs:
a) Disable/enable blog(s)
b) Override blog template
c) Enable/Disable RSS (each blog has its own)
d) Global disable comments
e) Create blog/Assign authors
f) Enable/Disable integrated site search


There are a number of ways to implement this but the three sections (Post, Comment, Admin) need to be available for EACH blog set up.

Also, blog "owners" need to post from the front end, preferably using a shortcut or hidden menu item which takes them to the Post a New Entry page. It's possible that a separate module would be useful showing this link as well as other status items like comments awaiting moderation, etc.

It would be great if bloggers could have their own custom URL like "joe.mydomain.com" or "www.mydomain.com/joe"

3. TECHNICAL IMPLEMENTATION
I think this is open to discussion. The obvious method would to use a Section as a Blog, Categories as Categories within that Blog, and Articles as Posts. Separate tables would be needed for the config, user management & possibly comments.

4. IMPACTS
Unknown.

5. DEPENDENCIES
Due to core changes, this component will likely only work with 1.5+

6. REFERENCES
Any WordPress or MovableType installation is a good point of reference.

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by pmcnamara » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:43 pm

I am not a developer, so please take this with a grain of salt.

But not having the ability to blog effectively is killing Joomla.

I realize there are people within the Joomla Dev Team who will say, if you want to blog then use blog software.. but you look at major newspaper publications.. even they now have user blogging in addition to their regular news content.

An effective, efficient method for organizing, presenting, and featuring blog content is absolutely vital.

Just my opinion, I love Joomla but I'm already playing with new applications for my next site because J! just can't do what I need for it to do.

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:23 am

evidence that this "is killing joomla"? .. or is that just an impression you are forming

I would still like to hear from someone as to whether extensions like, in particular, MyBlog (which by the way -- and importantly -- is implementable as a multiple blogger blog) are sufficient or whether there are advantages to building this into the core.

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by thewitt1 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:09 am

The advantage of building a full featured BLOG into the core is two-fold.

First, it means every Joomla installation has this ability out of the box - which means it will be used by a much wider range of Joomla users and installations.

Second, it's a Joomla capability - not a Joomla add-on, - which makes Joomla itself a more formidable product when you start comparing it with other solutions.

Certainly there are implementors who look at a solution and say it's going to be an easy to deploy solution because there are lots of third party add-ons, but there are far more who look at what's pre-integrated into the product as "THE PRODUCT" and not the extensive third party solutions that can be studied, downloaded, purchased, installed, integrated, tested and rejected as insufficient...

I say blogging as a core component is way overdue. I don't know enough about core Joomla development yet to offer a technical answer for how to develop the capabilities - but it looks like some good ideas have been floated already.

-t

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by pmcnamara » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:36 pm

founder wrote:evidence that this "is killing joomla"? .. or is that just an impression you are forming

I would still like to hear from someone as to whether extensions like, in particular, MyBlog (which by the way -- and importantly -- is implementable as a multiple blogger blog) are sufficient or whether there are advantages to building this into the core.
MyBlog is not multi-blogger.. its multiple authors into a single blog. I can get that out of the basic joomla content set up.

I want one blogger = one blog.. but with 100 bloggers managing their 100 blogs, without any of them being able to access the others.

Like a real blog site.

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:18 pm

"MyBlog is not multi-blogger.. its multiple authors into a single blog. I can get that out of the basic joomla content set up."

really . . . how? is there a how-to someplace on the net? if so, then the argument in this thread over building blogging into the core is off the mark.

you seem to me to be right in one sense, saying "into a single blog", since (apparently) posts are identified by the id of the poster and the category the poster chooses each time to post to (categories the admin sets up) ... but on the other hand if posts are kept separate that way it is hard to see whether it makes a difference if they are going into one database or 100 databases (which I presume is what you envision).

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by severdia » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:33 pm

Joomla can be used to blog dating back to its inception, but it's not built to be that way. There are critical elements like pings, trackbacks, comments, etc. that aren't included. You can resolve this with some third-party extensions, but the limitation in all cases is having multiple users. The main issue there is the current limitations of ACL, which will be resolved in Joomla 1.6. That will lay groundwork for isolating a specific users to a specific category or section. There are a number of reasons for wanting this, but the main reason is hosting a team of bloggers on a site and giving each their own "blog" or the ability to cross-pollinate content. WordPress MU, although not perfect, is a pretty solid implementation of this.

http://mu.wordpress.org
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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:03 am

good to see you back .. but what about MyBlog as a "not perfect, but pretty solid implementation of this"?

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by severdia » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:31 am

I can only speak from personal experience, which is limited, and I've found it "not ready for primetime". So, yes, certainly "not perfect" and also not "pretty solid".
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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:31 am

my experience with it is not really greater than yours, but I do know that version 3.0 is coming sometime this year

it now occurs to me that MyBlog may not really fit into the discussion here, anyway . . . this thread is about building blogging into the J core, which would mean that anyone who decides to develop a new website using J would have a blogging capability ready to hand, just as they now have a registration capability ready to hand

whereas MB is really for a different thing; it is, or at least it seems to me to be, for people blogging on a single topic or perhaps on a group of related topics .. they go to the site that deals with that topic and they are given their own blog to blog away about that topic .. this is quite different from, say, blogger.com

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by pmcnamara » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:24 pm

founder wrote:my experience with it is not really greater than yours, but I do know that version 3.0 is coming sometime this year

it now occurs to me that MyBlog may not really fit into the discussion here, anyway . . . this thread is about building blogging into the J core, which would mean that anyone who decides to develop a new website using J would have a blogging capability ready to hand, just as they now have a registration capability ready to hand

whereas MB is really for a different thing; it is, or at least it seems to me to be, for people blogging on a single topic or perhaps on a group of related topics .. they go to the site that deals with that topic and they are given their own blog to blog away about that topic .. this is quite different from, say, blogger.com
They are not given their own blog.. they are all given access to the same blog. Or to multiple blogs.. but not to their own blog. And all the bloggers have access to everyone else's blog.

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by pmcnamara » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:38 pm


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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by severdia » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:46 pm

Well, it's certainly an interesting workaround, but not enough to make this happen on the scale proposed.
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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:03 am

to pcmacnamara

"They are not given their own blog.. they are all given access to the same blog. Or to multiple blogs.. but not to their own blog. And all the bloggers have access to everyone else's blog."

why do you say this? you get your own blog, anyone who wants one gets one, so it is multiple-user .. and it is your own blog, and you certainly have access to it. Nor is it the case that all bloggers have access to everyone else's blog -- you have to enter the password you created when you registered for the blog in order to access your blog and start bloggin.

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by pmcnamara » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:34 pm

I will try myblog again, but what I found was that every blogger had access to edit everyone else's blogs or make posts in everyone else's blogs.

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:40 pm

I look forward to your analysis, and I think it will bear on the topic of this thread.

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:16 am

from what I can tell, you are both way out of date on MyBlog features and capabilities

but here is a new concept: what about the JPress project? -- which I have just encountered. Won't it do it all?

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by severdia » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:20 am

founder wrote:from what I can tell, you are both way out of date on MyBlog features and capabilities
A bit, but it still doesn't do one of the main highlights of this white paper—multi-blogging. Yes, you can have several users blogging to the same blog (you can also have several Joomla users blogging in the same section/category with Joomla alone) but they're not distinct. The new ACL in Joomla 1.6 should resolve this and—who knows—maybe MyBlog 3.0 will be able to do it whenever it comes out.
founder wrote:but here is a new concept: what about the JPress project? -- which I have just encountered. Won't it do it all?
JPress isn't ready for primetime yet (and isn't called JPress anymore...stay tuned for more info on that.). For now, more info is here:

http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/jpress/
Last edited by severdia on Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by pmcnamara » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:25 am

founder wrote:I look forward to your analysis, and I think it will bear on the topic of this thread.
I tried it again.. unless I'm doing something wrong, what I'm finding is exactly what I have seen in the past..

and as described above.. You can have several users blogging to the same blog or you can also have several Joomla users blogging in the same section/category but they're not distinct.

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:08 am

what does "not distinct" mean? (for that matter, what does "blogging to the same blog" mean?) . . . I presume this has something to do with your "same section/category" phrase, but what difference does that make?

with myblog you register and you then get a blog that pops up in a thickbox in which you enter text, and which you can only access after you've logged in ... the choice is yours then to publish the entry or to keep it private, and you can choose a category for each post and you can choose tags as well .. if you publish it, its subject-line and the opening sentence then appear on the page on the site that lists "recent posts" ... all users of the site can look through this page (and older pages, if they wish) and click on entries they want to read .. each individual blogger has another page which lists all of the entries they have made so far and another tab on this page shows them all the comments which have been made about their entries

I presume JPress, or whatever its new name is (the old one is the same as an ivy league men's clothing store), will do exactly the same thing -- is that wrong, and if so why?

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by severdia » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:18 am

founder wrote:what does "not distinct" mean? (for that matter, what does "blogging to the same blog" mean?) . . . I presume this has something to do with your "same section/category" phrase, but what difference does that make?
Users cannot have their own distinct blogs. With MyBlog, you can have many users and one blog, but not many users each with their own blog. You can duplicate most of the functionality of MyBlog with the current version of Joomla by allowing many users blog to a single blog. You should re-read this thread to catch up with the scope of the proposal. For an idea of features, see the multi-user version of WordPress:

http://mu.wordpress.org/
founder wrote:I presume JPress, or whatever its new name is (the old one is the same as an ivy league men's clothing store), will do exactly the same thing -- is that wrong, and if so why?
Yes, JPress will allow the multi-blogger functionality to pretty much the full capacity of this white paper. But it's not available yet and it's not a core set of features, which is the goal of these white papers.
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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by movemaine » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:29 pm

additionally look at the standard difference in pings between WP & Myblog.
Myblog pings technorati (and not perfectly...it has issues occasionally) whereas wordpress out of the box uses pingomatic:

Weblogs.com
Blo.gs
Technorati
Feed Burner
Syndic8
NewsGator
My Yahoo!
PubSub.com
Blogdigger
BlogRolling
BlogStreet
Moreover
Weblogalot
Icerocket
News Is Free
Topic Exchange
Google Blog Search
Spinn3r
Bloglines
AideRSS
SkyGrid


Specialized Services
Audio.Weblogs
RubHub
GeoURL
A2B GeoLocation
BlogShares

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:50 pm

JPress is no more . . . now it's Tamka . . . the summary from the project website [with occasional request for more info added]:

"There are no core hacks with Tamka. Tamka uses Joomla!'s 1.5's rich application development environment to extend the environment into a powerful blogger, with all the necessary (and fun) bells and whistles bloggers need (and love.) Since there are no core hacks, normal extensions should work with Tamka, too.

"There is Sample Data that we recommend using in order to become familiar with how Tamka operates. Not only will this provide helpful narrative, but perhaps more importantly, the Sample Data enables and configures extensions for immediate use.

"Blogger Support
* Can be configured as a single-user or multi-user blog.
* Each blogger can have their own blog.
* Blogger Categories can optionally be automatically created after normal Username approval processing. [please explain]
* ACL enhancements restrict bloggers to their own posts and Category. [please explain]
* By using core Joomla! User Groups, a Site Administrator can enable or restrict automatic publishing for all or individual bloggers.

"Member (Blogger) Profile
* Using Kevin Devine's UserMeta extension, additional data elements were added to the Tamka User Plugin to show how easy it is to extend Joomla!'s User data. User Meta can easily be customized by site developers for their own needs. [usermeta project is http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/usermeta/ ]
* Tamka Author Profile Module displays this UserMeta? data. (In the sample data with the Tamka Simplicity Template, this is presented in a position beneath the post for the blogger.)
* Gravatar support for Posts and Comments is available through specification in the Tamka UserMeta? Plugin and display in the template overrides.
* Bloggers can select content license choices available in the Tamka UserMeta? Plugin. (This can optionally be set site-wide by allowing only one option.). License information presented in Tamka Author Profile Module.
* Members can sign up for Email notification for posts and comments. The Tamka Email Notification Plugin uses those choices and the User email address to send notices.
* Members can define personal social networking URLs, which are then presented in the Tamka Author Profile Module.


"~*~ THE BLOG LOOK ~*~
"Blog View that simply extends com_content:
- Menu Item selection allows multiple Sections and Categories, date ranges, and authors;
- All normal events and Joomla! Plugins work with view since it uses com_content;
- Standard "reverse order by date" blogging standard possible (and can continue to use other Joomla!'s layout options)
- RSS Feed
"Taxonomy support and standard blogger objects:
- Tag Cloud;
- Blogger;
- Blog Calendar;
- Selection of any dimension filters the list of posts for tag, blogger, or date range.
- Pagination support;
- RSS Feed (ex., "Posts tagged with Joomla!" has an RSS Feed)
"Simplicity Template:
- Standard Blog look - Header, content area, footer and sidebars [use your own template?]
- Adjust content in sidebar easily using Joomla!'s Module Manager
- Standards compliant output for all extensions

"Post Editor and Tools
"Blogger Editor support
- Text (Smiley, FX.Slide, Syntax Highlighter)
- Images (automatic thumbnails, resizing, random image insertion)
- Gallery support (Slimbox, Phatfusion
- Audio
- Video
- Frontend editor space designed for ease of use and includes instructions for use of each Plugin.
"URLs and URL handling
- Pretty, permanent URLs: section-alias/article-alias(.html) available, will have many additional options
- Plugin to ensure unique URLs for posts;
- Posts have one, and only one URL, regardless of how many Menu Items include it (No duplicate content);
- Canonicalization of home page [blessing required? please explain]
- WWW vs no WWW http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/canonicalization-update/
- 301 processing available for URL migrations and/or changes to the Article URL
- 404 processing, including ability to create a custom 404 page and the collection of data regarding "page not found" errors.

"Post Notifications
- Pings
- Email Subscriptions
- Tweets (Post title and tiny url)

$$!!$$ [please explain]

"~*~ VISITOR INTERACTION ~*~
"Visitor Interaction
- Polls (core)
- Voting (core)
- Social Bookmarking
- Comments, Gravatar support, and Moderation

"Spam Control
- Mollom
- Akismet
- Secure Images
- Captcha
- Recaptcha

' "Got to have it cuz it's a blog" Stuff:
- Title Manager -
- Flickr integration
- Twitter Status and Timelines of Self, Friends and/or Followers
- Blogroll - Friend Links/Cool Links (new custom Module that uses standard Joomla! Core Web links components)

"Normal Joomla! Core Functionality
- Fully compatiable with all normal Joomla! functionality - including normal Joomla! extensions.
- Recent Posts (Latest News)
- Most Popular
- Online Users
- Related Posts
- Custom Modules
- Standard Templating easy to use to create headers, sidebars, footers, etc. [relates how to "Simplicity" -- please explain]

'SEO
"Go thru google's doc"

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by pmcnamara » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:22 am

JomSocial Integrated ?

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by pmcnamara » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:37 pm

Hello ?

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:14 pm

you're asking the wrong guy . . . all I know is what I read in the newspapers (ie, the news section of the tamka joomla project website)

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by pmcnamara » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:45 pm

I searched tamka in the JED and it didn't come with anything so I figured it was a dead project.

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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by severdia » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:58 pm

Tamka is not officially launched yet....

http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/tamka/

When it's ready, it will surely be in the JED.
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Re: [34]Multi-Blogger Component/Module

Post by founder » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:36 am

it is an interesting point, though, that important extensions (UserMeta is another) are sometimes not in the JED. Some of them are definitely worth trying. Conversely, others that are in the JED are really just as much in beta -- and sometimes more so.

It all depends, does it not?


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