[34]Full backup and restore function

[sapoku]

I´m a newby to joomla, and i started experimenting with lots of extensions.
I think it´s needed as a core feature a full backup and restore function.
I searched the forum and found a thread, but can not post on it, so i rewrite and add some of my ideas.
congratullations to bluesaze who wrote the original thread.

1. The whole website gets backup-ed in a single tar ball file on the server.

2. Backup also includes the Database.

3. Ability to import the backup into a new install.

4. Ability to export the backup.(so that he can save it on his local hardisk)

5. Ability to schedule the backup. (with option of Deleting previus backup or ading a new one)

6. Ability to mail the backup. (If possible in chunks of 10-20 Mb since some mail accounts have restrictions)

7.- Back-end ability to restore from backup (With option of full restore or select from a list of modified files)

8.- Ability to make a full functional copy of website and database, so the implementation of new features can be tested on a copy of a live site (Also ading a feature to kill the copy website, so after testing, no chunk remains on the server).

Option 1-4 is available in Tyop3.
Dont think option 1- 4 will be difficult to achieve. Helps save loads of time for people who make weekly backups.

The idea is to be able to test extensions and modify code with out having to worry about reinstalling test sites. Because many times, test sites are not blank sites, but sites with content.

Also, automate the backup task, so Admins have 1 less thing to worry about.

This implementation, will provide aditional functionality to joomla, so it shoud not afect other extenions.
Also, the only training needed shoud be a nice how to.

If you read this post and belive that it shoud be a core feature, please post a reply with your opinion or aditional features.

[sapoku]

UPdate...
I have found an update of a component for joomla 1.0, that does half of the job proposed.
http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/

It replicates a site, allowing to have a pre-production and production site on a linux server.

This means half the job maybe ready!!!...

----
Also, i sow a lot of reading, but no post... Does anyone think this is a good idea as a core feature???

[deleted user]

No, the numerous backup/restore/replicator extensions work perfectly well as extensions. JoomlaPack's latest release is a very good choice. But it doesn't need to be in the core.

Neither do the poll, banners, links, contacts, etc.--would be nice if core modules could be easily excluded or made into optional add-ons. Different install profiles...

Strip out that stuff, beef up the user manager and ACL, dump the whole legacy "archive" concept or make it actually mean something.

[sapoku]

I agree that it coud be nice to have an option to uninstall all unwanted features.
But you want to turn a default out of the box jooomla instalacion in a ACL software?

The idea here is to expand out of the box functionallity, and expand joomla usability. Not to make more complex the installation procedure, having to download aditionally all features you want to implement.

You are rigth, there are very good addons to provide back up functionallity, that means that theres no big problem in modify one to add default backup functionallity ass a core feature.

Another adventge of creating these backups as a core feature, its that in the future, these core features can be reaaly usefull to facilitate and automate migrations fron joomla 1.X to any future versions (2.0, 3.0..etc).

Also, you may be and experienced programer, but the thing that makes joomla so good, its thats really easy for newbies. And one of the bad things, its that there are so many extensions, that find the functionallity you want to implement becomes a realy hard task. Soo, expanding core functionallity, helps to make joomla a more easy solution, and to avoid newbies the hard task of installling 10000000 aplicactions. And these especific core features, facilitates the task of testing and finding those addons we are looking for.

[deleted user]

ACL=Access Control List (User Access Roles and Permissions.) This is a key core feature that is very limited in Joomla.

Out of the box Joomla should be a good CMS and nothing more. The main difference between a blog (i.e., a personal publishing toy) and a CMS is that a CMS has a scalable ACL and workflow system.

Any extension can be added to the core distribution to increase its out-of-the-box functionality--that doesn't mean the core distribution should be bloated with a lot of extraneous extensions. Think about the complications involved in taking an existing 3pd extension and working it into the core with ongoing development and support, which is definitely needed with a backup extension which happens to be a chronic security risk. (If Joomla had a core backup extension, most noobs would keep a pile of backups below their web root and make a fat target for hackers--leading to Joomla being blamed for it.)

The idea here is to expand out of the box functionallity, and expand joomla usability. Not to make more complex the installation procedure, having to download aditionally all features you want to implement.

What about all the people who want a different extension, or who don't want to the ones you want? You'd create more problems simply because you don;t want to bother installing an extension yourself, which takes 5 minutes

You are rigth, there are very good addons to provide back up functionallity, that means that theres no big problem in modify one to add default backup functionallity ass a core feature.

Wrong! You think they can just pitchfork Joomlapack into the core, that's it? Go take a look at their version history and security updates.

And one of the bad things, its that there are so many extensions, that find the functionallity you want to implement becomes a realy hard task.

It's much worse at drupal.org. The JED is super and google finds everything in it fast. I agree the community could use more review sites and sources of centralizing info for common Joomla deployment profiles. Anyone who wants to make this happen, can.

Soo, expanding core functionallity, helps to make joomla a more easy solution, and to avoid newbies the hard task of installling 10000000 aplicactions. And these especific core features, facilitates the task of testing and finding those addons we are looking for.

The n00bs need some work to learn how to not be n00bs. Too easy = dangerous, insecure, and (most often) ugly sites.

[sapoku]

ACL=Access Control List (User Access Roles and Permissions.) This is a key core feature that is very limited in Joomla.

Totally agree, thats why i have also post at the topics sugesting a more comlete ACL. By making these poset i´m not impliying that improve the ACL it´s less important.

What about all the people who want a different extension, or who don't want to the ones you want? You'd create more problems simply because you don;t want to bother installing an extension yourself, which takes 5 minutes

Install an extension take less than 5 minutes, finding the rigth extension that works takes a lot more time.. Especially if installing an extenion to tesk kills yppur joomla aplication (I had kill my joomla even installing the recomended spanish lenguage, wich was buggy, i found that there where misssing operators on the code)..

Also, i totally support the idea of been able to uninstall some core aplications, so if someone want to use anotherone, it will be free to do soo.

The n00bs need some work to learn how to not be n00bs. Too easy = dangerous, insecure, and (most often) ugly sites.

Ok, noobs need o work to stop the nooob overflow, but let´s make them work in something more usefull. Readyng 300 posts to find an addon it´s it´s just a waste of time. Also, i dont buy the idea that more easy = dangerous. If that was true, i woud have to say that joomla as it is, it´s increadibly dangerous, and we both now thats not the case.

But let´s make a middle point so we can move on,,, what do you think of adding backup functionallity as a optional core feature, selected at install time?.

[deleted user]

what do you think of adding backup functionallity as a optional core feature, selected at install time?

I think it would be nice, but it would require the Joomla team to develop and maintain a backup/migration extension--or cooperate with a 3pd they get on board--and this might be a high security risk and require relatively frequent updates. So I don't know they'd be able or willing to do this. It may not be a realistic wish.

[sapoku]

seems like you know a lot about backups and security risk..
Can you post the most important ideas about how backups can preesnt a security risk, and explain them a little??
Soo we can discuss how avoid those issues.

Also, i dont think that working with a 3rd aprty to provide backup functionallity woud be soo hard..

one question.. here we can post about ideas to expand core features... but were can we post ideas to improve the joomla home page, especially the add ons page..

[deleted user]

Go over to http://extensions.joomla.org/ and find the links to the extension editors page/blog. I'm sure you can get in touch with them there or give feedback at http://community.joomla.org/

As to the security risks, all the backup extensions I have seen save database and file backups by default to directories within the joomla installation folder, such as /administrator/backup or a subdirectory within the extension's folder. Joomlapack did a smart thing and recently posted an announcement that this is a bad idea and you should not leave backup files in web-accessible directories. While they have a minimum protection of blocking out direct browsing of the backup folder's index, this does not stop people from guessing and fishing for the files directly as their location and naming is fixed and well known. Joomlapack also notes this and recommends the best practice of saving backups to a folder above the joomla installation directory and preferably above the webroot so it is not accessible on the web at all. People with certain cheap hosts may not be able to do this. Which is a general problem... cheap hosting, bad file permissions, key files unprotected in obvious locations.

If a malicious individual gets hold of your backup files they can:

1-pull out your admin passwords, ftp password, and/or database passwords and screw up or delete your joomla installation, anything in your web directory, your database, and/or your backups

2-insert malicious code into your site (backdoors, spyware, rootkits, viruses, and other stuff to harm or otherwise infect your visitors) AND the backups

3-steal any data you have about yourself or your users (emails and passwords at a minimum)

4-all of the above

[sapoku]

Ok, totally agree.

Soo, no backups on the server, add on must check that the route to backup folder its out of the server direcory. Or simply, there will be no option to save the backup on the server, just download. Another feature that coud be usefull its automatic backup send over mail.

Another way to provide full functionallity, its to use password protected backup.

What other security issues are relevant to discuss??

[blturner]

I have to agree with sapoku. I wish Backup and Restore was in the core.

Before adding any extension you should backup your site. If backup is an extension then you have a chicken and egg situation.

I guess I will keep reading how to do it. So that when I redo a friends site that was taken out a long time ago by that Turkish hacker mess I will at least be able to restore it if it happens again.

[Jason3107]

Hi,

I am in the process of moving host.

I wish to start making backups of my site and have a few extentions and others installs i have added over time.

I have the plug-in to get the databases emailed to me but just realised that this is not really enough as i have files that will also ned backing up too.

As i am not the only one updating the site i would not have all the file to hand and wondered if just grabbing a full site backup (home directory via FTP) and then uploading this to the new blank home directory of the new server once DNS has finished doing its thing... would this be enough to have the site working as it did on the previous server?

i hope this is posible.

cheers

Jason

[blturner]

Check out joomlapack.

Brian