[STARTED] Built for Joomla!

Do you have an idea for the Joomla community that you can help implement? Discuss in here.
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[STARTED] Built for Joomla!

Post by brian » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:09 am

One thing that I often disagree about with extension developers is their naming of Joomla extensions.

When marketing an extension, irrespective of it being free or commercial, the challenge is to clearly identify the product as being for Joomla.

Many developers believe that to achieve this they need to name their product in the form "Joomla Newsletter". To me this is wrong and potentially confusing, as to the inexperienced user they may believe that this is a product made by the Joomla project when it isn't.

If a developer really feels that they have to use the word "joomla" in their product name at best it should be in the form "Newsletter for Joomla".

I've always advocated this and the very first time that the joomla name was introduced to the awaiting community I wrote exactly this on the front page of joomla.org. At the same time I also attempted to ensure that third parties only used the Joomla logo to imply "built for" and not to adapt, manipulate or otherwise alter the joomla logo.

Sadly very few extension developers have followed my suggestions and this is one of the issues that Open Source Matters Inc, the holders of the Joomla copyright and trademarks, regularly battles with.

The challenge therefore is to create a method for developers to clearly identify their product as being for joomla without abusing the logo or misusing the name.

The debian project attempted to address this issue with their logo by having two. One official logo that could only be used by the project and another one that could be freely used. Unfortunately the official logo was "so dam ugly" that it's rarely used, even by the debian project itself.

On the other side of the coin Apple have successfully done exactly this with their "works with iphone" and "made for ipod" logos.

The "Built for Joomla" logo and certification scheme.


I hope and believe that, if this proposal is adopted today, it would satisfy the needs of all three parties.

1. The consumer will not be "tricked" into believing it is an official product
2. The developer will have a means to clearly brand and id their product as being for joomla
3. Open Source Matters Inc. will be able to more easily, and cost effectively, police the usage of the joomla mark.

So how would it work?


The "logo and certification" scheme would consist of two parts.

1. A clearly identifiable logo that is free to use
2. A clearly defined "self-certifying" set of rules that a developer must adhere to in order to use the "logo"

Of course, if required, the second part could be a more formal arrangement with application forms and official permission slips, and perhaps even click-backs so the consumer can confirm the validity of the logo, but I neither believe this would be necessary nor believe that it is in the true spirit of an open source community project.

So what would the logo look like?


I am not a designer or a graphic artist but perhaps it should be something clear and simple like the Apple "designed for ipod" logos. It is simple and clear and quickly serves its purpose of identifying the compatibility and intended market of the product.

There could even be slightly modified versions for different groups of products eg

1. "Built for Joomla" for extensions
2. "Designed for Joomla" for templates

And what about the rules for usage?

These need not be complex at all and in fact already exist in one form or other at the moment

1. The product is not named "joomla XXXX" ("XXXX for Joomla" would be acceptable although not desirable)
2. The product must be compatible with the stated version of joomla
3. The joomla logo must not be used in the marketing of the product except in accordance with the existing brand guidelines. [note: I would expect that if the brand guidelines were strictly adhered to most developers would chose to only use the proposed "Built for joomla" logo]

How could this "scheme" be implemented?

It's actually surprisingly easy to implement a scheme like this as it only requires three things. Two of which the joomla community is very good at and one which it should be good at.

1. Design the logo and make it readily available
2. Write the rules (as I said earlier these really already exist if not in one clear location)
3. Communicate the new scheme to developers and the community of users.

Prior communication tasks indicate that the latter is the most challenging but it really should not be. It's not about "beating people with a stick", "lambasting them in public forum" or "sending threatening legal letters" but rather a gradual process of education.

I am confident that once developers see each other adopt the "scheme" and its benefits they will rapidly adopt it. Of course there will be some that don't and they should be "encouraged" to do so, especially for all new products. But at the same time consideration should be made for those "products" that are already well known in the marketplace and have a well established brand name in their own right. We should be aware that in certain situations a complete re-branding will be both prohibitively expensive and time consuming.

If the communication of the scheme is done in a timely and professional manner I am certain that it will be welcomed by all parties concerned. It has clear benefits for everyone and in time will I'm sure become commonplace in the joomla-verse.
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by alledia » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:16 pm

OK, modeled after the Made for iPod program?
http://developer.apple.com/programs/ipod/

Application form here: http://developer.apple.com/programs/start/ipod/
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by brian » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:24 pm

Thanks for adding the links Steve. They got lost when I posted.
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by mark_up » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:35 pm

Seems like a win/win solution for OSM and the 3PD community. I like it.
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by RussW » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:49 pm

I like this idea too, thanks for returning it to the discussion board Brian
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by Oceanwatcher » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:27 pm

Maybe there should be a few more strings attached to it...

100% GPL

Meaning - it can not be used by anyone making ANY non-GPL extensions for Joomla. This to avoid that a GPL extensions is used to get people over to their site so they can show off their non-GPL stuff.

No link-back, no "Powered by", and no metadata that points back to the site of the developer or any site they are paid to advertise for. A copyright notice has it's natural place in the PHP code, but not in the html. It is a real pain sometimes to find the right place to squash these things.

On the other hand - it would be nice to have a module we could display on the "About" page that listed all extensions used with links and version numbers...
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by raghavtomar » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:40 pm

Yes, a very valid point Brian! Unfortunately, with the abundance of the type of licenses available, I think oceanwatcher's point assumes more importance. There is a need to clearly identify extensions/templates which one can use as freely as Joomla! without bothering to read pages and pages of legal agreements! Maybe we can have a separate logo for such products.
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by vinnythejinny » Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:42 pm

Like your idea of creating a unique and common logo for all extension developers and also the protocol for naming the extensions. In fact other competitiors like drupal rarely have "drupal" as word in most of their plugins, wonder why joomla developers can't think beyond "joomla" word.

Maybe they should make a post every time they make an extension and ask the community to name the extension based on its use. then choose the best that suits the prodct.

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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by vdrover » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:50 pm

The logo is a great idea. I wonder though how someone would differentiate between a respected developer using the logo and someone just trying to scam/spam you. On the other hand, policing such a logo would be tiresome and painful and self-defeating.

What about if one of the conditions of use is that the logo links to the JED listing for that extension. I.E. No JED listing, no valid usage. If someone used it improperly, a simple click would identify it. It would also reveal to the end user the valid download and demo links, which is both convenient and would circumvent false links and fake download sites.
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by brian » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:53 pm

That definitely expands on my original "click-backs so the consumer can confirm the validity of the logo" in a positive way.

Remember that currently there is nothing at all to prevent "scammers"
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by alledia » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:56 pm

That might be a good workaround Vic.

If it's listed on the JED, it qualifies for the "Made for Joomla" logo. After all, it's already passed the license, TM and other tests to make it onto the JED.
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by RussW » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:21 pm

Could the JED extension entry be modified to provide something like the "Secure Site" back-links, maybe a small XML entry that shows the validity of the Logo Link? That way, if JED are removed or suspended for some reason it could post a message to the Logo?

[edit] as has been mentioned, to be in the JED it needs to have passed some basic "PC" type tests in the first place.

Make it a Joomla! Module, that can be placed on the site or loaded in to content. It could potentially also pull off the extension rating to display.

Downsides to this are that it can still be modified, scammed or edited, but then again, that is nothing new in the Open Source arena. Plus more bandwidth use for the JED system. And maybe people not liking the idea of 'call-back' external to their servers. But I figure it is similar in approach to RSS feeds and the "Secure" confirmation checks.

This could possibly be expanded to the Resources section, "Recognised Joomla! Developer" or "Designer" or "Host" but this might be a little too much and start to present a "supported by" or "authorised by" Joomla! type situation.
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by brian » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:46 am

All sounds good but I would suggest start small first
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by RussW » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:27 am

Aaaarrrrrgh...! Ya boring old "so 'n' so"... Brian... LOL Sink or swim mate.... ;) <teehehehehee>
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by alledia » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:23 pm

Good news on this idea ... I think there's quite a bit of support and momentum behind it from you guys, the JED, including Vic above :), and others.

Keep chipping in ideas as you have them ...
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by brian » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:44 pm

Small steps
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by vdrover » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:51 pm

CAN WE START SINGING kumbaya? :)

(oops, CAPS).
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by vdrover » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:58 pm

If we link to the JED, probably the "Made for Joomla" logo should have text "Click to verify".
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by alledia » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:00 pm

Similar to the way Paypal etc do it ... you can steal the "PayPal Verified" logo but you can't fake the link back to the parent site.
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by vdrover » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:01 pm

see attached
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by brian » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:02 pm

I'm happy to leave the final design (and any extra text) to whoever can design better than me. (I struggle to draw a straight line). I really just want to see a simple means for any extension developer to clearly identify their extensions as being for Joomla without resorting to using the name Joomla in their product name. This bad practice has gone on for long enough
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by brian » Wed May 05, 2010 9:24 am

It would be great to see some suggestions for the "designed for" and "built for" logos
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by mlipscomb » Wed May 05, 2010 2:44 pm

While I love the color J logos, I think they often clash with designers/dev's sites. So my incantation:
verify.png
Also, I do think it's a really cool idea to do one for the Resources Directory as well!

I went a bit different of a route on the "Click to Verify" idea. I think the word "verified" could be misleading simply because it sounds like the extension/template/resource listing is an "official" one.

I can do a reverse of this one as well, but only did the dark version for feedback.
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by vdrover » Wed May 05, 2010 2:52 pm

I think the valid download links are the most important thing here. "Ratings and Reviews" doesn't quite capture that. The idea here is that we have an easy way for users to verify that they are downloading from the authentic URLs.
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by mlipscomb » Wed May 05, 2010 3:19 pm

Good point Vic. I do still think promoting ratings and reviews is important, but definitely pointing out the "official download link" is a top priority. With the regular onslaught of warez sites, etc it's a great opportunity to help actively protect the devs/designers!

Incantation 2:
verify3.png
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by raghavtomar » Wed May 05, 2010 3:32 pm

hey brian (& others)!
Uploading some designs. Please have a look...
design_1.png
design_2.png
design_3.png
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by raghavtomar » Wed May 05, 2010 3:40 pm

There was a limit of three attachments, so attaching one design here...
design_4.png
8)
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by ruigato » Wed May 05, 2010 3:56 pm

My vote goes for something simple and clear like raghavtomar second design

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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by raghavtomar » Wed May 05, 2010 4:19 pm

hey ruigato! thanks for the support!
Uploaded Some more designs here...
http://meetraghav.co.in/joomla-section/ ... ddcomments
Last edited by raghavtomar on Thu May 06, 2010 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Built for Joomla! - Designed for Joomla!

Post by vdrover » Thu May 06, 2010 4:44 am

simple. To the point. nothing to distract from your site design.
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