Page 1 of 1

Initiatives?

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:13 am
by mrcorex
Hi all.

Some time ago, someone asked me what would be the perfect choice of a CMS. I had to think a little and here is my responce.

"If you take the CCK from Drupal, the element inheritance (fluid/gridelements) from TYPO3, forget about WordPress, refactor Joomla to keep all components-file in one place etc., and melt all of it into Joomla, you will have the perfect CMS."

I know there is a lot more to it, but this is basically my oppinion. I have worked a lot with these 3 CMS's, professionally the last 1 1/2 years with Drupal 7/TYPO3 6.2, primarily TYPO3 on a HUGE project with many installations/integrations. My angle is developing. There will no pros and cons. This is just my humble oppinion. If you do not agree, fine by me. :)

TYPO3
For development, TYPO3 have extreme fleksibility, but that also costs. It is very "hard" to upgrade extensions, when you need to upgrade to a new TYPO3 version. I have upgraded a long list of extensions, so I have done my share. TYPO3 is enterprise-ready. Thats for sure.

Drupal 7
I love the cck part, the fleksibility. And if you have the right modules installed, you can do a lot of things. But the speed is awful. And the lack of MVC, aaaaand so on.

So why do I write these things about the other CMS's/CMF's ?
I have been on a hunt for a long time, to find the CMS for me. I am been working for years, both as an architect and a developer, with .NET and PHP. Written a lot of web-services.

My goal was to find the best, the most fleksible, the most maintainable CMS of all time. A lot of people says "the right CMS for the right job". I do not believe in that. It is what you turn it into.

I thought about using Yii to do some stuff, but takes way to much work before I can get anything done. No matter where I turn and what I try, I always turn back to Joomla.

In short, I love Joomla. It gives me the most fleksibility. Kudo's to the whole community that maintains Joomla. If I combine Joomla with Fabrik, I can come a long way. When I install Joomla, I get the most "toys" out-of-the-box.

I have some requirements though.
(Not deeply analyzed, please forgive me of anything is not right here, feel free to correct me).

1. Deployment.
- TYPO3: hard, but possible.
- Drupal: yes.
- Joomla: not sure what to write here.

2. Speed.
- TYPO3: from 7.x, yes.
- Drupal: no.
- Joomla: yes.

3. Restful.
- TYPO3: no, though it has something called eID (Extended ID), so it is possible to write it.
- Drupal: with some modules, you can get there. Not a lot of experience here.
- Joomla: not that I know of.

4. Headless.
- TYPO3: no.
- Drupal: from 8.x, yes.
- Joomla: no.

5. Language in core.
- TYPO3: yes.
- Drupal: no.
- Joomla: yes.

6. Database-deployment/migration.
- TYPO3: no.
- Drupal: no (maybe with modules).
- Joomla: no.

7. MVC.
- TYPO3: yes.
- Drupal: no.
- Joomla: yes.

8. Multiple sites in same installation/database.
- TYPO3: yes.
- Drupal: "yes".
- Joomla: with extension, I think?

My questions (based on all that bla bla I wrote).
1. Are there any initiatives to start moving all the files for a component, into one place?
It makes it so much easier to use git for development and makes is possible to find a good way to deploy a Joomla-installation. It is very easy to use git and deployment for files in TYPO3 and Drupal. So it would be a great change in Joomla. Maybe a combo?

2. Are there any initiatives to write a restful "implementation" into core in Joomla?

3. Are there any initiatives to move Joomla into a headless-installation?
There is something called "COPE - Create Once, Publish Everywhere". While this is good, I want to change it a bit. "COUE - Create Once, Use Everywhere" which - in combination with Joomla's nice backend - could turn Joomla into a content-repository.

4. Are there any initiatives to move support for multiple sites into core of Joomla?

5. Are there any initiatives to support database-deployment/migration?

Thanks for your patience. :)

Re: Initiatives?

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:16 pm
by mrcorex
Am I the only one that are interested in these questions?

( I briefly saw a post of someone else interested, but disappeared again ???? )

Re: Initiatives?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:32 am
by ppisljar
Well, i am not expert, but i think that:

1. what exactly do you mean ? joomla comes with nice install script, which allows you to deploy it in few easy steps.

6. database deployment/migration: mysql provides all the required tools ... doing mysql_dump and importing the dump is all you need. you cam write a simple script to automate it (which will be dependant on your architecture ... where do you want to copy that database ? )

8. there is no visual configuration for this, but you can still set it up:
https://docs.joomla.org/Multiple_Domain ... stallation

regards, Peter

Re: Initiatives?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:51 pm
by mrcorex
ppisljar wrote: 1. what exactly do you mean ? joomla comes with nice install script, which allows you to deploy it in few easy steps.
1. "Deployment" are not the same as "Installation". When you work in a web-agency and have a lot of sites/installations, it is very important to have a good deployment-procedure. Everything is possible, but if you have a good deployment-procedure, it saves money and time - and it does not have to be the same person that deploy the site.

Of course, everything is just files and, as such, are easy to deploy. Some uses Capistrano, other uses git. You can find tons of places on the internet that explains how important a good deployment-procedure are. I do not want to go into details here. There are many people that are much better than me to explain it in details.

Related to Joomla and my question. When deploying a site i.e. like Drupal, some prefers to deploy a site where modules (Drupal) are like git-submodules. Others have developed their own deployment-scripts where they are running through each extension and "git clone" it. There are many options here.

But when it comes to Joomla, modules and plugins are fine. It is the components that are a problem here, as I see it. They are spread over multiple locations. And if you have a medium-site with 30 components, 20 modules and 30 plugins, you end up with 110+ locations, hence my other question #1 "Are there any initiatives to start moving all the files for a component, into one place?"
ppisljar wrote: 6. database deployment/migration: mysql provides all the required tools ... doing mysql_dump and importing the dump is all you need. you cam write a simple script to automate it (which will be dependant on your architecture ... where do you want to copy that database ? )
I know all about the tools you are menchioning here. But I also use Joomla on Azure, so the tools are different for each database-type. I have not been giving a lot of details here, but in i.e. Yii or Symfony, there are something called Migrations. It would make a whole new world of options if something like this feature, would sneak its way into Joomla.
ppisljar wrote: 8. there is no visual configuration for this, but you can still set it up:
https://docs.joomla.org/Multiple_Domain ... stallation
It is not what I am looking for. If I choose TYPO3, I can have a page-tree. And every page in that page-tree, I can give an option to be set as "root"-page and add domain-records to it. That means I can have as many sites I want in TYPO3 out-of-the-box. TYPO3 also have something called TypoScript which is something someone created when he was angry. :)

I am well aware that Joomla does not have a page-tree and it would be nice if it had. Remember that TYPO3 is enterprise-ready. It is big and powerful. But also have a cost. Not even Drupal has a page-tree or the option of pages. I prefer Joomla because the component/module/plugin-structure is nice (except multiple locations). For custom-extensions, I would choose Joomla.

As a last comment, Joomla has the ability to become big and powerful. As I said before, i have done my share of TYPO3-, Drupal- and Joomla-development. And I would choose Joomla. In my opinion, it has the best architecture for growing into a big and powerful platform. Why else does i.e. Nooku exist.