migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by red2678 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:52 am

Please I do not want to get into some lame forum war. @maguirre IMO, I think the admins should give you a sticky in this forum just for your product (as well as your ideas)! If you are to be the one that make the migration component, then you should at the very least have a dedicated spot in the 1.6 forums.

However, this thread was talking about the core migration script; I feel that the attention is diverting onto your product and away from the topic at hand (that being a core migration script!).

Please understand, I fully support your product, but again, I will not get into some lame argument.

 
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by dhuelsmann » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:13 am

@red2678: Actually you are incorrect. The title of this thread migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6 has nothing specific to do with a core Joomla migration component but simpy how does one do the migration at all. Your comments and @maguirre's comments have equal weight in this thread. If you would like a thread devoted to your topic, I suggest you start your own.
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by Peter_AUS » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:33 am

Of course you can Matias, I think everyone is just frustrated that this has to be discussed at all, and should have been a normal transition from 1.5 to 1.6, I certainly think that it should and I am an average web host running my websites myself, I am not a programmer nor good with resolving issues that deal with code. Having to workout how to migrate from my Joomla 1.5 to 1.6 without something that is like you are working on would just be a big mistake on the Joomla Programmers side of the fence.
Thanks,

Peter

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by red2678 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:07 am

Of course you can Matias, I think everyone is just frustrated that this has to be discussed at all
Exactly!

and @dhuelsmann, like I said...a lame argument...

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by pekk » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:06 am

I have done some sites with 1.5 and I just don't want to get stuck in a platform (1.5) that no one will be developing for in a couple months. I need my sites being current most of the time.

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by Tonie » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:23 am

@red2678. Flaming wars is also the last thing I want, especially on such an important topic.

@red2678. Very good idea about the sticky. Later today I will create two threads. A sticky with a link to the lastest version, some information and probably two links. One to a discussion topic, another to a support topic where people can report their results with the tool.

@maguirre. I will probably send you a PM later today.

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by mikac » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:42 pm

Hello,

I'm also sorry and slightly disappointed to hear that migration from Joomla 1.5.22 to 1.6 is going to be "tricky" at best.
I have a couple of sites based on Joomla 1.5.22 and they are not very complex, and I can only thank Joomla for the work so far, having in mind that it is Free and Open Source platform.

But, one of the sites that I have has couple of thousands of images, and they are in gallery component, and I wouldn't mind having to upload all of the photos again, but much bigger issue is going to be to add names, description and keywords for them again.

I just hope that Joomla team is going to come up with migration tool after all, because I think that slightly more complex sites are going to be in a much bigger problem then mine.

Common guys, 1.5 to 1.6...there must be a way!

Greetings to all Joomla, and Happy Holidays

Milan Markovic

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by brian » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:53 pm

@mikac that will all be up to the specific gallery component and the developer of that component
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by maguirre » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:26 pm

Not be misunderstood, I never wanted to fight with anyone.

What I am saying is that I have had conversations with several developers and they have supported the project. Andrew Eddie are working on a new class jUpgrade that should be easy to include in the core of Joomla then I see no reason to criticize the developers, I think we'll have a good migration tool available when Joomla 1.6 is stable.
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by tchyusuf » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:31 am

I think you must wait for joomla1.6 stable release.

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by maguirre » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:08 am

@tchyusuf The idea is to have an updater and launch simultaneously with Joomla 1.6 stable. why we must wait for joomla 1.6 stable?
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by urednik » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:31 pm

Guys you just do not seem to get it. Maguirre's JUpgrade is it. No other tools. Who cares if official or not, just that it works. And it does what it says.

My only question is how clean is the database afterwards? What tables are potentially unnecessary or automation junk? How do they influence the performance?

And maguirre your comments here are very appreciated. Red seemed to lose his discernment for a second.
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by red2678 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:39 pm

Well, I am just upset (well was). But I can see now that the Masters see that some sort of migration is needed. I am glad to hear that it will be included with the core (@maguirre YAY!).

Also, @maguirre this is public forum, your thoughts are always welcome. Moreover, it is not my position to tell you when to post or not (which I did not do), BUT, I can tell you when I think your hijacking a thread, because just as you have the right to post your comments/thoughts, so do I. Peace brotha, Rastafari!

@tonie, I think makeing this guy a thread (or his own forum, I think, "Joomla 1.6 Migrating and Upgrading") is a good choice. IMO the 10 or so users that voiced their disagreement, with regards to the lack of a migration utility, were just the tip of the iceberg. There are going to be numerous people that either will need a walkthrough (which should be a sticky in the migration forum) or are going to just need support from the community; and perhaps a dedicated forum would be a great idea for that(?).

Anyway, I hope you all had a nice Christmas and have a happy and healthy New Year!

My2Cents, See ya in a week,

Red

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by brian » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:52 pm

You really need to read more carefully @maguirre did not say that any form of migration tool would be included in the core
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by urednik » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:19 pm

red2678 wrote: I can tell you when I think your hijacking a thread, because just as you have the right to post your comments/thoughts, so do I. Peace brotha, Rastafari!
- Red an apology would be better. Magguire has every right, yeah, because he made a component, about you I am not sure. A degree of mourning would normally not classify you as a forum moderator.
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by maguirre » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:29 pm

@red2678

What developers should be done? an official component included in the core?

If this were so you would have to install new's Joomla 1.6 manually and only then migrate the data, images, templates, etc.

Changes in Joomla 1.6 not done on purpose to annoy the end user but they are great changes in the amount of opportunities these changes offer. Now we can have unlimited categories and we have a comprehensive internal system of user permissions. These large changes are also great risks, but the idea is to keep growing.

If you are dissatisfied with this, should consider using Wordpress which has a large end-user support, but a disastrous code full of security holes.
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by red2678 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:27 pm

Love the censorship...no freedom of speech here!

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by ooffick » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:33 pm

Mod Note: Keep all commentary civil, and be courteous at all times. Constructive criticism is welcome, but insults directed towards other users or the site admins will not be tolerated. Coarse/insulting language will not be tolerated.

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by duckjunkie » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:23 pm

I had high hopes for 1.6 when I read http://www.joomlablogger.net/blog/jooml ... o-16-easy/ a year ago. How disappointing. I know Joomla is free but so is the site I run and this seems like a "do it right or don't do it" situation to me. :'(
New to Joomla! but trying really hard to figure things out on my own! If I am asking here, I am likely frustrated, embarrassed or otherwise not happy. Please be easy on me and I will try to get back to it on my own without being a pest. ;)

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by markholland8 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:27 pm

Hi All,

I have had a good read through the posts and have been heavily testing Joomla 1.6 since Alpha release. However i agree that there should be of minimum a menu and content core migration tool.

I notice a lot people are still trying to defend the lack of a migration tool but Joomla is a community project and is community involved but it seems that joomla just hasn't listened to the community as a whole.

I have over 700 articles and one of the joomla masters says and i quote "move them manually" i need to sleep you know.

This tool i a must and i am now at the stage of moving to another CMS and completely overhauling my company because of the many issues that have been identified in this post.

As mentioned nobody would mind waiting a few more months for a migration tool.

There is nothing you can say to counter act this issue it is just a really bad judgment of error.
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by dhuelsmann » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:01 am

I don't get it! What is the matter with you guys? There is a perfectly good solution that has received the support of the devs and all of you are moaning and groaning that you don't have a solution to move your content from 1.5 to 1.6. Look again and stop the whining. http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions ... tion/11658
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by brian » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:49 am

How about being more polite
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by urednik » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:05 am

Once again as already mentioned. This migrate tool is even easier to use as if it would be inside of 1.6.
And until we do not have a stable version of 1.6 there will and can not be a stable release of the upgrade component.

How do you even think of this Mark? I have 2000 articles and 1000 translations and I am not moaning, but just waiting for 1.6 to be ready.
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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by RobbyRobby » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:46 am

Thanks for your work, Maguirre. Sure would help a lot of Joomla users! I'm definitely not ungrateful to be able to use this software for free, but making any kind of development on a software without making a previous version upgradeable to it when it's under the same banner (Joomla! 1.X) just doesn't make sense to me. This is why i find it hard to believe this is really the truth in this case, which is why i'd rather wait and see. I mean, it's as if the developers would purposefully work on 1.6 in vain since they'd disappoint their current userbase. That any devs, especially those of a major software like this would do that in the year of 2011 is about as believable to me as the Palestine-Israel conflict ending.

Also, on another general note, if you don't like to argue about stupid arguments, don't be the one to start them! ;)

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by mbabker » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:37 am

Not to throw more fuel in the fire, but perhaps there's a reason that the dev team has decided to not include a core migration capability.

Looking at the download packages available on Matias' site, jUpgrade has been in development since 1.6 was in Alpha status (the first download dates back to 3 February 2010). I personally don't know about Matias' time that he has available for development support, but based on activity on his website, it seems to me that he's had more time to focus on developing and supporting a migration component than those on the dev team. Also note that he is receiving support from the same developers who have been working on 1.6 for the last 2 years.

I've personally never migrated a 1.0 site to 1.5, but from what I gather in what I've read, it isn't a simple process and many prefer a third party solution over the core solution. Speaking of 1.0 to 1.5 migrations, I've seen numerous recommendations for that migration to be done using mtwMigrator, developed by Matias.

It looks to me that without coming out and explicitly stating it, the dev team is putting their support behind jUpgrade and a developer who has had proven success with version migration in the past. I'd rather see the dev team say "we advise you use jUpgrade for migration from 1.5 to 1.6" than to leave the community in the dark as to why there isn't a core solution, but that's just my personal opinion.

At the end of the day, this looks to be a win-win situation for all, even if right now it doesn't seem so.

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by birnik » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:44 am

1.6 seems to be kind of disappointment. Not only in terms of what it offers, but how it happened.

Looking at the development, I see bad planning and lack of vision. Few things to mention about 1.6:
- No polls (left to third party)
- No comments, no tags (left to third party)
- No update (left to third party)
All the arguments heard about it are weird: 3PD do it in a better way.
Following that logic, maybe it is a good idea to drop com_content as well. K2 for example is far superior than com_content. Why not drop com_content as well and leave the framework only?
I am neither complaining or bitching, but the project seems to lost its vision and its roadmap (which actually doesn't exist). So if you don't know what will be in the next version, are you on the safe side?

Other reason could be pretty commercial - the lack of migrator/updater opens whole new market for professionals. I would not be surprised if it was done on purposes - commercial one. This ain't bad in general if it is communicated correctly. But who knows?

Let's hope 1.6 will stabilize soon.
Birnik

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by RobbyRobby » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:00 pm

birnik wrote:1.6 seems to be kind of disappointment. Not only in terms of what it offers, but how it happened.

Looking at the development, I see bad planning and lack of vision. Few things to mention about 1.6:
- No polls (left to third party)
- No comments, no tags (left to third party)
- No update (left to third party)
I know very little of the changes in 1.6, but the little i do know makes it seem that they have been focusing on re-doing one or more large portions of the core this time. Personally, finally getting custom user-groups by default is far more important than anything of that which you mentioned. So maybe 1.6 is the start of something new that can see your wishes come true too?

On another note, why bother with the extras when you have a huge community taking care of such things for you? As long as it's native extensions i don't see how the official devs could make it better. Maybe they better focus on making the core stuff better and more advanced so that the extension-possibilities themselves become greater?

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by robwickham » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:07 pm

I am so frustrated with the whole migration plan. What happened to upgrade? How about small incremental upgrades to get where we need to go instead of such a huge change all at once? I maintain about 50 websites half of which are still V1.0. Why? Because all of my sites have custom templates that need rebuilt, some custom extensions that need rebuilt, and many off-the-shelf extensions that need re-installed, re-configured, or replaced.

I am just finishing a 1.0 to 1.5 rebuild of my largest site - over 1000 articles, custom design, custom extensions, thousands of images, hundreds of users. And now I'm going to have to rebuild it again??? Plus all of the others? I could not believe there was no upgrade from 1.0 to 1.5. I really can't believe that it's happening again.

How do I continue to support a project that does not seem to support all of the work that I (and many others) have done?

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by RobbyRobby » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:41 pm

Rob, i can tell you that i gladly would pay good money to use Joomla if that would mean better modification-support and streamlined upgrades. Perhaps the dev team rather would have freedom than our money though? :p I mean this is why i myself don't even have donations for my clan-sites. As soon as people give you some funds they expect a lot more from you.

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Re: migrate joomla 1.5 to joomla 1.6

Post by SOAMJENA » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:29 pm

Maguirre, you are doing a great job already. All I can say, GENIUS KEEP ON WORKING AND POSTING YOUR IDEAS HERE! :)
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