Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url Topic is solved

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riffraff666
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Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:18 am

Hi everybody,
I have a multilingual website based on Joomla 2.5 with Joomfish translator.

I have created some menus that are shown only to registered users, some other menus that are shown only to guest, and other menus that are shown to everybody.

When I browse in the website opening the various menus, I face the following issue:
1) When I am logged in as normal user (by "normal" I mean not administrator), sometimes the menus visibility is as if I wasn't logged int. Which means, the menus that should be shown only to guest are visible, while the menus that should be shown only to user are hidden.

2) The other way round as point 1: when I am not logged in, the menu visibility is as if I was browsing the website as guest

I am pretty sure that the problem is that the browser shows the contents that were cached in the computer before logging in/out. In fact, if I clear the browser cache or I open an anonymous browser session, the problem disappears, until I don't log in/out. In fact, if I log in/out and I go on browsing a little more, sooner or later the problem happens again.

One thing that I noticed, although I am not completely sure, is that the problem happens if I switch among different languages by using the Joomfish language switcher.

Another important detail that I have noticed is that, if I reload the current url (e.g. pushing enter key on browser address bar or clicking the circular row), the visibility turns to be as it should. So it seems that there is a difference between the http GET requests that are sent by opening an url by clicking on a link and the GET request that are sent while forcing a reload of the current url.

I have opened the contents inspection of the browser, and in the network panel I see the following GET requests:
1) When opening the URL by clicking on a link (I have removed any clear reference to the website):

Code: Select all

Request URL:https://www.example.com/it/
Request method:GET
Status code:
200
Version:HTTP/2.0
Referrer Policy:no-referrer-when-downgrade
And the http answer:

Code: Select all

cache-control	
max-age=172800
cf-ray	
51502c8eafb8cc52-ZRH
content-encoding	
gzip
content-type	
text/html; charset=UTF-8
date	
Thu, 12 Sep 2019 07:30:10 GMT
expect-ct	
max-age=604800, report-uri="ht….com/cdn-cgi/beacon/expect-ct"
expires	
Sat, 14 Sep 2019 07:30:05 GMT
host-header	
b7440e60b07ee7b8044761568fab26e8
server	
cloudflare
set-cookie	
795a0b657f5210881eccf88c66c0a7dd=it-IT; path=/
set-cookie	
lang=deleted; expires=Thu, 01-…:00:01 GMT; Max-Age=0; path=/
set-cookie	
jfcookie=deleted; expires=Thu,…:00:01 GMT; Max-Age=0; path=/
set-cookie	
jfcookie[lang]=deleted; expire…:00:01 GMT; Max-Age=0; path=/
vary	
Accept-Encoding,User-Agent
X-Firefox-Spdy	
h2
x-proxy-cache	
MISS
x-xss-protection	
1; mode=block
Request headers (0 B)	
Raw headers
Accept	
text/html,application/xhtml+xm…plication/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
Accept-Encoding	
gzip, deflate, br
Accept-Language	
en-US,en;q=0.5
Connection	
keep-alive
Cookie	
__cfduid=d826b2d09c015aa832663…d125340537faf822141eaac4749c7
DNT	
1
Host	
www.example.com
Referer	
https://www.example.co…it/component/users/?view=login
Upgrade-Insecure-Requests	
1
User-Agent	
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; W…) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/69.0
1) When opening the URL by forcing the reload:

Code: Select all

Request URL:https://www.example.com/it/
Request method:GET
Remote address:104.28.xxx.yyy:443
Status code:
200
Version:HTTP/2.0
Referrer Policy:no-referrer-when-downgrade
And the http answer:

Code: Select all

cache-control	
max-age=172800
cf-ray	
51503afdf999cc62-ZRH
content-encoding	
gzip
content-type	
text/html; charset=UTF-8
date	
Thu, 12 Sep 2019 07:40:03 GMT
expect-ct	
max-age=604800, report-uri="ht….com/cdn-cgi/beacon/expect-ct"
expires	
Sat, 14 Sep 2019 07:39:56 GMT
host-header	
b7440e60b07ee7b8044761568fab26e8
server	
cloudflare
set-cookie	
795a0b657f5210881eccf88c66c0a7dd=it-IT; path=/
set-cookie	
lang=deleted; expires=Thu, 01-…:00:01 GMT; Max-Age=0; path=/
set-cookie	
jfcookie=deleted; expires=Thu,…:00:01 GMT; Max-Age=0; path=/
set-cookie	
jfcookie[lang]=deleted; expire…:00:01 GMT; Max-Age=0; path=/
vary	
Accept-Encoding,User-Agent
X-Firefox-Spdy	
h2
x-proxy-cache	
MISS
x-xss-protection	
1; mode=block
Request headers (783 B)	
Raw headers
Accept	
text/html,application/xhtml+xm…plication/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
Accept-Encoding	
gzip, deflate, br
Accept-Language	
en-US,en;q=0.5
Cache-Control	
max-age=0
Connection	
keep-alive
Cookie	
__cfduid=d826b2d09c015aa832663…d125340537faf822141eaac4749c7
DNT	
1
Host	
www.example.com
Referer	
https://www.example.co…it/component/users/?view=login
Upgrade-Insecure-Requests	
1
User-Agent	
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; W…) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/69.0
So the point is that when I am logged in, I want to inhibit the usage of the contents that were stored while I was logged out and vice versa.

I did several attempts by all unsuccessful. For example, I disabled the option "Use Browser Caching" of the "System - cache" Joomla plugin. I also tried the following lines of PHP codes in the html header, to avoid the usage of the cache when the user is logged in:

Code: Select all

<?php 
if (JFactory::getUser()->get('id') != 'Guest')
{
?>
<meta http-equiv="cache-control" content="max-age=0" />
<meta http-equiv="cache-control" content="no-cache" />
<meta http-equiv="expires" content="0" />
<meta http-equiv="pragma" content="no-cache" />
<?php 
}
?>
However these lines are useless: In fact I have seen that when the problem happens, the JFactory::getUser()->get('id') returns 'Guest' when actually I am logged in.

The solutions that I can imagine could be:
- To force the clearing of the computer cache (of course, only the cache of my website) every time the user logs in / out.
- Or alternatively, to cause the cache to expire, every time I log in / out.

How can I do this?

Thank you to everybody who will read this post and will give me the solution.

Best regards
Alberto

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by waarnemer » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:28 am

when someone is logged in.. there should be no caching... but for some static like .js and .css

something is wrong with your cache settings... but also you are on 2.5... that reached end of life December 2014.
You can check your cache settings, but bugs will not be fixed... you need to move to 3.9 (and prepare for 4) as soon as possible..

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by darb » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:01 am

yes first step -> move to Joomla 3.9.+ and follow updates for better usage experience, stability and performance etc

Its no idea to drive an old Fred Flinta stone age car when you can get a Ferrari for free :D
Success in the long run Its not about the code its about the people and community that's make it!
Its not what you say its what you do that matters!

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:47 am

Hi,
I know it reached end-of-life. But unfortunately the upgrade to higher versions of Joomla is totally out of question. I have an ecommerce website based on a 3rd party component which can run only in Joomla 2.5 and is no longer maintained.
If I do the upgrade of Joomla I would destroy the website without any guarantee that the described problem is solved.

Can you please give me more precise indication on where should I look into?
I am not asking to have a bugfix from Joomla developers. I will do it myself. I just need some hints to be put on the right way. This is forum is dedicated to Joomla 2.5, so I would expect that this is the right place to ask it.

Best regards
Alberto

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by waarnemer » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:02 pm

well first, since you are on cloudflare, start to read this:
https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us ... irst-Steps

also in cloudflare admin panel, tab cache, set caching level to "no query string" and "browser cache expiration" to "respect existing headers"



then hire a developer to rewrite your old extension for joomla 3.9.x or maybe even higher/future proof.
as getting hacked because you use old and non supported (yes even your extension) is worse than "totally out of te question"...
or migrate to another eCommerce tool.

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:20 pm

"hire a developer to rewrite your old extension for joomla 3.9.x or maybe even higher/future proof...."
Let's forget how much it would cost a developer to rewrite the component. This would mean that the website would not work until the component is stabilized. My website would lose customers, money and reputation.

"...or migrate to another eCommerce tool."
This is not possible. It is not a out of the box component. It is a VOIP website integrated via API interface with my wholesale provider. Nothing similar exists in the world.

Once again: as this a forum section dedicated to Joomla 2.5, any suggestion to upgrade to another Joomla version in my understanding is to be considered off-topic.

About Cloudflare: before opening this post I also tried to set the purge the Cloudflare cache and then put it in developer mode, without success. However I will check it again. Thanks for the info.

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by Webdongle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:22 pm

Your website doesn't work. You need to update. There is no quick fix.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by Per Yngve Berg » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:44 pm

What about the version of php?
Don't use anything newer than 5.6.

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:49 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:22 pm
Your website doesn't work. You need to update. There is no quick fix.
This is a weird statement, without knowing anything of my website else than this post. [ redacted ]
Last edited by toivo on Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: mod note: discourteous remark removed - please observe the forum rules, available from https://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=65!

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:51 pm

Per Yngve Berg wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:44 pm
What about the version of php?
Don't use anything newer than 5.6.
Current PHP Version is 5.6.40. Is this OK?

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by waarnemer » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:57 pm

It is a bit of a weird write down.. but 5.6 is EOL too.
To be within current lifecycle on PHP you need 7.2 to at least have security patches for another year.
https://www.php.net/supported-versions.php

Though your 2.5 won't run on anything later than 5.6 since that is the highest PHP version on J! 2.5

That is what Per meant. Don't go over 5.6 (or your hosting provider should not) else your site is down.

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by Webdongle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:02 pm

riffraff666 wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:49 pm
Webdongle wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:22 pm
Your website doesn't work. You need to update. There is no quick fix.
This is a weird statement, without knowing anything of my website else than this post. Don't troll please
Not really because you are using a version of Joomla that wont run on the current version of php. And you you are using a custom extension that will not run on the current version of php. Accusing me of trolling does not hide the fact that your site is too old to run on a modern platform. THERE IS NO QUICK FIX
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:18 am

Webdongle wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:02 pm
Not really because you are using a version of Joomla that wont run on the current version of php. And you you are using a custom extension that will not run on the current version of php. Accusing me of trolling does not hide the fact that your site is too old to run on a modern platform. THERE IS NO QUICK FIX
[ redacted ]

Once again: as this a forum section dedicated to Joomla 2.5, any suggestion to upgrade to another Joomla version in my understanding is obviously off-topic. [ redacted ]

[ redacted ]

For your information: my website is working perfectly and is successful. It contains a lot of complex features and services that work perfectly. My customers are happy. It is giving me money. I cannot mention here the real website just to convince you, and by the way this would be against the rules of the forum. But as I am perfectionist, I want to fix the only bug that is still remaining on the website.
Last edited by toivo on Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: mod note: discourteus remarks removed, please observe the forum rules, available from https://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=65

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by Webdongle » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:53 am

riffraff666 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:18 am
...
For your information: my website is working perfectly ...
If it was working correctly then you would not need to post requesting help. THERE IS NO QUICK FIX
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by waarnemer » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:56 am

Your problem is a caching problem.

Since your seem to be absolutely sure it is not j! 2.5 it is something else... then you should be in the fora of something else maybe.

I already wrote you need to check the cloudflare settings. You run an eCommerce platform... logged in visitor activity therefore is not to be cached. If you do have cloudflare set to cache (the orange cloud with the arrow) you also need to set it to respect expiry headers and level to "no query string".

If your server supports caching mechanisms, acpu, varnish or whatever... disable it for your site.

Vanilla, your response header should have an expiry of Wednesday august 17 2005. Way in the past at least.

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:29 am

waarnemer wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:56 am
Your problem is a caching problem.
Since your seem to be absolutely sure it is not j! 2.5
I never said I'm absolutely sure. I said that there is not any evidence that the problem can be solved by upgrading Joomla: it's very different. Blindly upgrading something, hoping that this would solve some bug, it's not a sensible way to proceed. I hope this aspect is definitely clarified and closed.

Thank you for the other suggestions in your latest post. I will check them carefully and will post here the results.

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:48 am

Webdongle wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:53 am
riffraff666 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:18 am
...
For your information: my website is working perfectly ...
If it was working correctly then you would not need to post requesting help. THERE IS NO QUICK FIX
Never I asked for a quickfix. There isn't any complaint from my customers about this bug. It is a minor bug that doesn't prevent the website to work fine and giving me money, but I want to fix it anyway. The software without bugs doesn't exist.

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by Webdongle » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:55 am

It's not 'blindly updating'. It's advice to update in order to:
Prevent future problems
and
Avoid your site being vulnerable
https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerabilit ... .5.28.html

There will soon come a time when your site will stop working. If you think updating is difficult now ... it will be much more difficult in the future.

Ignore the advice at your own risk but at least it is there for others who view this thread.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by toivo » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:21 pm

riffraff666 wrote:as this a forum section dedicated to Joomla 2.5, any suggestion to upgrade to another Joomla version in my understanding is obviously off-topic.
It is definitely on topic because of reasons mentioned by @Webdongle and others.

riffraff666 wrote:I cannot mention here the real website just to convince you, and by the way this would be against the rules of the forum.
Including the URL of the website that has issues is not against the rules of the forum. Often it is also requested, especially if the issue is with CSS or HTML, performance or other issues. Spamming is a different matter.
Toivo Talikka, Global Moderator

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by Webdongle » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:29 pm

No I never said it would solve it. I advised to update. When you came up with excuses to avoid updating, I then spelt out why. Your choice but at least others (who are reading this thread) will see why it's a bad choice and avoid making your mistakes.

Replying to threads is not only about solving the issue. It's also about making sure the advice is good so that others (who are reading the threads) aren't mislead by the bad practices of others.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:37 pm

toivo wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:21 pm
riffraff666 wrote:as this a forum section dedicated to Joomla 2.5, any suggestion to upgrade to another Joomla version in my understanding is obviously off-topic.
It is definitely on topic because of reasons mentioned by @Webdongle and others.
Since this forum is dedicated to Joomla 2.5, it is obvious that the posts of this forum are related to Joomla 2.5. So it doesn't look very useful and sensible, to repeat the mantra "you should upgrade", "you should upgrade" in every thread of this forum, ignoring the original reason why the thread was opened. Possibly it would be a good idea to update the description of the forum. Currently there isn't any mention of these concepts there: see viewtopic.php?f=615&t=582738
toivo wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:21 pm
riffraff666 wrote:I cannot mention here the real website just to convince you, and by the way this would be against the rules of the forum.
Including the URL of the website that has issues is not against the rules of the forum. Often it is also requested, especially if the issue is with CSS or HTML, performance or other issues. Spamming is a different matter.
If it is true what you said, that the Joomla 2.5 exposes the website to vulnerability, it doesn't look a good idea to publish my website here. I will do it, if needed, in PM.

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by waarnemer » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:56 pm

It is a minor bug that doesn't prevent the website to work fine...
You don't know if it is a minor bug till you know what causes your trouble.
If it appears your issue IS caused by a bug it will not be solved since all is EOL...
The origin of the bug is unknown and may very well be a hack...
to work fine and giving me money...
You seem not to take any responsibility towards your users and customers. For all we know, your site may already be hacked and exploited.

No one mentioned you needed to blindly update.
Everyone warns you about staying blind in an EOL version of Joomla!...EOL Joomfish and an API interface that is no longer maintained.

As you can read by the title of this forum it says EOL so any advise on updating is ON TOPIC. You will even find a lot of sticky notes you should upgrade/update.
My website would lose customers, money and reputation.
You worry about your customers, money and reputation? Get to work and update!

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by Webdongle » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:04 pm

That was written over 8 years ago while 2.5 was still being supported. 2.5 became eol nearly 5 years ago.
jversion 01.JPG
Your site will eventually fail and the longer you leave it then the more difficult it will be for you to update. No amount of rhetoric by you will alter those facts. But it is your choice to face the facts or not as the case may be.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:12 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:04 pm
That was written over 8 years ago while 2.5 was still being supported. 2.5 became eol nearly 5 years ago.
jversion 01.JPG

Your site will eventually fail and the longer you leave it then the more difficult it will be for you to update. No amount of rhetoric by you will alter those facts. But it is your choice to face the facts or not as the case may be.
It seems that you don't want to understand: I am not objecting your arguments: I am just saying that I don't want to discuss them here. It isn't rethoric: iut's order. When I will do the upgrade, I will open a dedicated thread on another forum. But this simple concept seems too hard to understand.

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by Webdongle » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:17 pm

riffraff666 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:12 pm
... I am not objecting your arguments: I am just saying that I don't want to discuss them here. It isn't rethoric: iut's order. When I will do the upgrade, I will open a dedicated thread on another forum. But this simple concept seems too hard to understand.
By arguing against what I said you are objecting. And you have been told that my comments are on topic.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein

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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:18 pm

waarnemer wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:56 pm
It is a minor bug that doesn't prevent the website to work fine...
You don't know if it is a minor bug till you know what causes your trouble.
If it appears your issue IS caused by a bug it will not be solved since all is EOL...
The origin of the bug is unknown and may very well be a hack...
to work fine and giving me money...
You seem not to take any responsibility towards your users and customers. For all we know, your site may already be hacked and exploited.

No one mentioned you needed to blindly update.
Everyone warns you about staying blind in an EOL version of Joomla!...EOL Joomfish and an API interface that is no longer maintained.

As you can read by the title of this forum it says EOL so any advise on updating is ON TOPIC. You will even find a lot of sticky notes you should upgrade/update.
My website would lose customers, money and reputation.
You worry about your customers, money and reputation? Get to work and update!
This thread has become a process to me, to my work work, to my reputation and to my professionalism towards my customers. And all that, without even knowing which is the website. I would have never believed that this would happen. There is no use in losing time here.
Have a wonderful day to everybody

riffraff666
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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:21 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:17 pm
riffraff666 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:12 pm
... I am not objecting your arguments: I am just saying that I don't want to discuss them here. It isn't rethoric: iut's order. When I will do the upgrade, I will open a dedicated thread on another forum. But this simple concept seems too hard to understand.
By arguing against what I said you are objecting. And you have been told that my comments are on topic.
Saying that I don't want to discuss here this topic doesn't mean that I am "arguing against".
But yeah, daddy said your are right... So you can write everything you want

waarnemer
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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by waarnemer » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:26 pm

you should have simply wrote..
yes I know... I need to upgrade, meanwhile.....
instead you wrote
it is out of the question
that makes it you refuse, are against etcetera... your wording, not ours.

So in order to solve your current issue (since it cannot be solved by upgrading according to you) did you check your caching settings (site, server, cloudflare)?

riffraff666
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Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:31 pm

waarnemer wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:26 pm
you should have simply wrote..
yes I know... I need to upgrade, meanwhile.....
Ok, I should have said before and I say it now: yes I know, I will do the upgrade. And I will discuss it in another dedicated thread, not here.
Is that OK?

riffraff666
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Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:00 pm

Re: Usage of cache can be inhibited only by reloading the url

Post by riffraff666 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:39 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:29 pm
No I never said it would solve it. I advised to update. When you came up with excuses to avoid updating, I then spelt out why. Your choice but at least others (who are reading this thread) will see why it's a bad choice and avoid making your mistakes.

Replying to threads is not only about solving the issue. It's also about making sure the advice is good so that others (who are reading the threads) aren't mislead by the bad practices of others.
Ok, sure, you are right.
I will upgrade it. Are you happy now?


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