Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

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Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by fampuero » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:10 am

Anywhere? or Anybody?

thanks...

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by hup » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:07 am

1.6 released. Great.

Now we wait for a migration tool from 1.5 to 1.6.

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by mbabker » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:15 pm

There is not going to be a core migration tool Check out jUpgrade to help with that. http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions ... tion/11658

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by hup » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:22 pm

According to the readme file in the stable release of 1.6, migrating from 1.5 to 1.6 will be explained at http://docs.joomla.org/Tutorial:Migrati ... Joomla_1.6.

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by masantner » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:41 pm

I'm waiting on the tool... waited a year for 1.6, a little while longer is nooooooo problem :)

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by diavolo32 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:32 pm

mbabker wrote:There is not going to be a core migration tool Check out jUpgrade to help with that. http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions ... tion/11658

Hi! There's no going to be a core migration tool, a tutorial, a step by step... nothing. In other words, leave us lying on the sea without life jackets, or how. Call Bill Gates to see if we can solve it. But this was not open source, a community of people helping and these things?

Develops a new Joomla! and, man, the previous version was 1.5.x, so everyone has to migrate, maybe 99% of users?, not upgrade to the new version. And how, do a course in programming or what. Because I do not know if you've watched that JUpgrade has more bugs than my grandfather's car. And lose, like me, a community of data subscriptions and others as they do not feel like starting from scratch. Between this response and that docs.joomla.org there is nothing written on the wiki on migrate from 1.5 to 1.6. Is that this should be done now because that is: look for you, the users, and not the product. Thanks for ... Nothing? To see if some fool is going to use the thinking JUpgrade works, which passes through the forum and read the many problems that are giving ...
If the problem continues, a lot of people will migrate to other CMS, boy. What about customer service, you know what i mean. First, users, is the basis of a CMS project. Give solutions, or maybe si time to change. I hope some people could help us if Joomla Tema don't do what they should do: give solutions for the people who has converte Joomla! in a great CMS. A lot of downloads? A lot of people trusting in open source that works. Do the right thing, man.
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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by infograf768 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:49 pm

What about customer service, you know what i mean.
Yep, we know... You want your money back...

This a free CMS and you/we are not considered as "customers" and, although we voluntarily —on our free time— provide this tool for all to use as fit, we are not providing to you a "service".

I don't remember having received any "fee" for the "service".

JUpdate is not ready yet, where is the big deal?
1.5.x is there for long enough to see JUpdate working fine and new extensions ready for 1.6.

Nobody forced you to use 1.5.x and nobody forces you to immediately move to 1.6.
If you are satisfied with 1.5, it makes us feel good.

Thank you.
:pop
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---------------------------------
ex-Joomla Translation Coordination Team • ex-Joomla! Production Working Group

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by masantner » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:53 pm

I'll also be passing on JUpgrade... not worth the problems it creates. Besides... as tempting as it might be to install 1.6, I'll be waiting for at least one update before attempting to upgrade. Maybe by that time, there will be some sort of upgrade/migration tool that makes sense. I'm in no hurry. :)

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by severdia » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:00 pm

More information on migrating/upgrading is in this thread:

http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=580&t=569539
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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by rand486 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:06 pm

diavolo32 wrote:There's no going to be a core migration tool, a tutorial, a step by step... nothing. In other words, leave us lying on the sea without life jackets, or how. Call Bill Gates to see if we can solve it. But this was not open source, a community of people helping and these things?
I'm astounded at the level of entitlement some people seem to have. You are correct, this IS open source - that's part of the reason it's FREE. Joomla 1.0 didn't have a core migration tool either, and the Joomla community seems to doing just fine. And what exactly does Bill Gates have ANYTHING to do with it?
diavolo32 wrote:...man, the previous version was 1.5.x, so everyone has to migrate, maybe 99% of users?, not upgrade to the new version.
Actually no, you (nor anyone else) HAS to upgrade. In fact, some people are still on Joomla 1.0. It is encouraged, not mandatory. You can stand to wait another X number of days, weeks, whatever. You made it this far without 1.6.
diavolo32 wrote:And how, do a course in programming or what.
Perhaps if you did take a course, you'd be more appreciative of what the Joomla developers have done for us - FOR FREE.
diavolo32 wrote:...docs.joomla.org there is nothing written on the wiki on migrate from 1.5 to 1.6. Is that this should be done now because that is: look for you, the users, and not the product.
Did you know the wiki is ALSO written by volunteers? Feel welcome to contribute to the wiki, instead of complaining!
diavolo32 wrote:Thanks for ... Nothing?
Have YOU contributed ANYTHING to the community? Even answered a question on the forums?

It astounds me that you couldn't even notice the default template - the banner even SAYS "We are Volunteers!"

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by Tarun » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:30 pm

severdia wrote:More information on migrating/upgrading is in this thread:

http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=580&t=569539
That's pathetic, and honestly is piss poor development. You're essentially screwing over all of your 1.5 users by not offering an upgrade script. That should have been the FIRST thing completed. But it seems Joomla wants bad press. Being open source, that's even more reason that an upgrade script should have already been present. The fact there is not shows how sloppy this release is.

I might stick with Joomla 1.5 a bit longer, but I'll be looking for a better CMS that knows how to do things.

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by severdia » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:51 pm

Tarun wrote:[
That's pathetic, and honestly is piss poor development. You're essentially screwing over all of your 1.5 users by not offering an upgrade script. That should have been the FIRST thing completed. But it seems Joomla wants bad press. Being open source, that's even more reason that an upgrade script should have already been present. The fact there is not shows how sloppy this release is.

I might stick with Joomla 1.5 a bit longer, but I'll be looking for a better CMS that knows how to do things.
Wow, that's quite an accusation. I'm not sure how we're "screwing over all our 1.5 users" and being "sloppy" because there's an upgrade script available. Have you tried it?

http://www.matware.com.ar/

If you haven't even tried it, what makes you think it's inferior than an "official" one? If you don't want to even try it out, then I agree it's possibly time for you (as you suggest) to find a new CMS. Maybe there's one out there that can accommodate your sense of entitlement.
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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by LeFunk » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:04 pm

The frustration of some users is sad, but understandable.
Seeing a nice, long awaited upgrade without safe means to apply it is like being a kid waiting for Christmas and receiving a big present - also free by definition - but being told not to open it until February.

That said, yelling at Santa (or threatening to replace the Claus) would be a relieving, but ultimately disheartening thing to do, grown ups should know better.
I am honestly thankful to the people who have used their time and skills to make this good and free CMS possible. Cheers!

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by severdia » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:35 pm

LeFunk wrote:The frustration of some users is sad, but understandable.
Seeing a nice, long awaited upgrade without safe means to apply it is like being a kid waiting for Christmas and receiving a big present - also free by definition - but being told not to open it until February.
Why is it understandable? Why isn't jUpgrade a "safe means to apply"?
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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by Tarun » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:22 pm

severdia wrote:
Tarun wrote:[
That's pathetic, and honestly is piss poor development. You're essentially screwing over all of your 1.5 users by not offering an upgrade script. That should have been the FIRST thing completed. But it seems Joomla wants bad press. Being open source, that's even more reason that an upgrade script should have already been present. The fact there is not shows how sloppy this release is.

I might stick with Joomla 1.5 a bit longer, but I'll be looking for a better CMS that knows how to do things.
Wow, that's quite an accusation. I'm not sure how we're "screwing over all our 1.5 users" and being "sloppy" because there's an upgrade script available. Have you tried it?

http://www.matware.com.ar/

If you haven't even tried it, what makes you think it's inferior than an "official" one? If you don't want to even try it out, then I agree it's possibly time for you (as you suggest) to find a new CMS. Maybe there's one out there that can accommodate your sense of entitlement.
There's an upgrade script available? Where? Is it official? Oh wait, no, there is not an official upgrade script; there is nothing in the Joomla distributable package that can help users straight of the box.

Sorry, that's no accusation; it's fact. It's not just me stating it either, many other users in this forum are complaining of the exact same issues. All that is available is a single extension called jUpgrade that poorly handles multiple aspects of upgrading. It loses far too much data to be a worthwhile component to use. Menu items, article aliases, modules, articles, permissions, SEO/SEF issues and much, much, MUCH more get lost and broken. And that's just off the top of my head, because there's plenty more. I tried it and attempted to work with it for over 6 hours yesterday, finally saying this is not worth it and reverting to 1.5, database and all.

Common sense and good programming ethics/basics tell you to help your users and make things easy for them if you want to keep your user base. I've used several CMS' before I settled on Joomla, and they all had upgrade scripts. Joomla so far is the only one that shafts their users and has no means of upgrading.

Now, don't get me wrong. I like Joomla. I think it's a very good CMS; but more thought should have gone into this. The first thing that should have been taken care of when the decision to make 1.6 happened was to ensure your existing users could easily upgrade to the latest version. After that, you handle new users, and then everything else. Sadly, Joomla has shown (as of this post) that they learned nothing from the mess of 1.0 -> 1.5.

As I mentioned, I'm a software developer. I have been working on the next version of my software and the first thing I considered was making it easy for my existing userbase to upgrade to the next version. That's already been taken care of and I'm still in the early alpha (and internal/private testing) stages of development. Why did I do this? I want my users to keep coming back and enjoying my software. The fewer complications they have, the happier they will be. The easier and smoother it is to upgrade for them, the more they will enjoy my software.But that's just basics of programming/coding 101. :)

I, as well as many others, would love to see an official/officially developed upgrade script or some means that will allow us to go from 1.5 to 1.6 WITHOUT ANY LOSS OF DATA. I've already mentioned how many problems jUpgrade has as of this post. Their forums are littered with problems people are having. To me, Joomla calling jUpgrade the "official-unofficial" upgrade solution is absolutely disgusting and shows how poorly this release has been handled.

I'm sticking with 1.5 for now, but I sincerely do hope to see an official solution to this.


I apologize if I sound irritated, please do not take any of this personally. Though I can honestly say I am very irritated at how poorly this upgrade has been handled. Spending over 6 hours on my test site trying to get the upgrade to work by several, various upgrade methods only to be forced to revert/stick with 1.5.


Kind regards,
Tarun

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by pe7er » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:25 pm

rand486 wrote:Actually no, you (nor anyone else) HAS to upgrade. In fact, some people are still on Joomla 1.0. It is encouraged, not mandatory. You can stand to wait another X number of days, weeks, whatever. You made it this far without 1.6.
Actually a couple of my customers are still on Joomla 1.0.15 and they are still happy with it.
Personally I would like to see them migrating to 1.5 because it's much better & easier to maintain.
But if there's no real need to switch, they will stick to 1.0 for the moment.
Note: If their hosting provider decides to upgrade PHP to PHP5.3, then I'll strongly advise my clients to upgrade.
Joomla 1.0 was written for PHP4 and will give errors on PHP5.3.
LeFunk wrote:The frustration of some users is sad, but understandable.
Seeing a nice, long awaited upgrade without safe means to apply it is like being a kid waiting for Christmas and receiving a big present - also free by definition - but being told not to open it until February.

That said, yelling at Santa (or threatening to replace the Claus) would be a relieving, but ultimately disheartening thing to do, grown ups should know better.
I am honestly thankful to the people who have used their time and skills to make this good and free CMS possible. Cheers!
LOL! That's a nice metaphor to remember!
Kind Regards,
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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by severdia » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:55 pm

Tarun wrote:There's an upgrade script available? Where? Is it official? Oh wait, no, there is not an official upgrade script; there is nothing in the Joomla distributable package that can help users straight of the box.
Why are you asking questions you already know the answer to? Correct, there's nothing in the 1.6 package that will help users upgrade from 1.5 to 1.6. Yes, that's a fact and nobody in their right mind would argue that.
Tarun wrote:All that is available is a single extension called jUpgrade that poorly handles multiple aspects of upgrading.
Keep in mind that Joomla 1.6 was released YESTERDAY. jUpgrade will improve in the coming weeks and other solutions may become available.
Tarun wrote:Common sense and good programming ethics/basics tell you to help your users and make things easy for them if you want to keep your user base. I've used several CMS' before I settled on Joomla, and they all had upgrade scripts. Joomla so far is the only one that shafts their users and has no means of upgrading.
What's your urgency to upgrade anyway? What's the "common sense" in upgrading to a new piece of software the first day it's released? How can you say "no means of upgrading" when there's a means of upgrading?

There needs to be a realignment of priorities. There are two camps of users in the Joomla community—ones who think all code should come from the community and the dev team should do very little, and the ones who think the dev team should do 99% of the work and minor patches should come from the community. It seems you're in the second camp. It so happens that more in the direction of the first camp is the way it should be. The community drives the development of the software and the Leadership Team provides the vision. The dev team tries to pick up slack where there's a gap in those two things, but there's a finite amount of hours and people. If something is important to someone in the community, they pick up a shovel and start working. That's what Matias did with jUpgrade. The dev team, being short on resources, recognized his effort coming from the Joomla community and embraced it.
Tarun wrote:Now, don't get me wrong. I like Joomla. I think it's a very good CMS; but more thought should have gone into this.
Glad you said that, because from your previous posts I was certainly getting you wrong. Actually lots of thought went into this, as with most things. The Joomla teams are pretty passionate about making Joomla great and spend a great deal of volunteer hours thinking and doing things to accomplish that.
Tarun wrote:The first thing that should have been taken care of when the decision to make 1.6 happened was to ensure your existing users could easily upgrade to the latest version. After that, you handle new users, and then everything else. Sadly, Joomla has shown (as of this post) that they learned nothing from the mess of 1.0 -> 1.5.
Thanks for that opinion, but it was secondary to getting 1.6 out and in the hands of people that need it.
Tarun wrote:As I mentioned, I'm a software developer. I have been working on the next version of my software and the first thing I considered was making it easy for my existing userbase to upgrade to the next version. That's already been taken care of and I'm still in the early alpha (and internal/private testing) stages of development. Why did I do this? I want my users to keep coming back and enjoying my software. The fewer complications they have, the happier they will be. The easier and smoother it is to upgrade for them, the more they will enjoy my software.But that's just basics of programming/coding 101. :)
Great, so pick up a shovel and start contributing back to Joomla. Just imagine how popular you'd be if you made an awesome 1.6 upgrader component. :)
Tarun wrote:I, as well as many others, would love to see an official/officially developed upgrade script or some means that will allow us to go from 1.5 to 1.6 WITHOUT ANY LOSS OF DATA. I've already mentioned how many problems jUpgrade has as of this post. Their forums are littered with problems people are having. To me, Joomla calling jUpgrade the "official-unofficial" upgrade solution is absolutely disgusting and shows how poorly this release has been handled.
Disgusting or not, it's a fact.
Tarun wrote:I'm sticking with 1.5 for now, but I sincerely do hope to see an official solution to this.
Please do stick with 1.5. Then we don't need to have this conversation. It sounds like you don't really need to upgrade anyway. Once you and others get over the initial "kid in a candy store" shock of 1.6, we can get back to work on improving Joomla. :)
Tarun wrote:I apologize if I sound irritated, please do not take any of this personally. Though I can honestly say I am very irritated at how poorly this upgrade has been handled. Spending over 6 hours on my test site trying to get the upgrade to work by several, various upgrade methods only to be forced to revert/stick with 1.5.
Yes, you sound very irritated. There's no sense in getting worked up over something that will change in the coming weeks. Keep in mind that 1.6 is on the bleeding edge right now and you would be called an "early adopter." If you want to ride that crest, you need to accept there are pros and cons. If you don't want to deal with those wait until more options are available and things will be smoother.
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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by mbabker » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:12 pm

For those who haven't browsed the file architecture, there is a SQL diff in the same directory as the regular installation SQL's; diff_15_to_16.sql. Not sure how well it works, but judging by it's name, you MAY be able to partially convert your database to be 1.6 ready. It was kept up-to-date throughout the Beta process, so it should get you most everything. Why this file isn't publicized or wasn't removed? To be honest, I don't know, but it could be a great base for someone who's willing to take it, finish it, and send it back into the core code for everyone to use.

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by seo4theweb » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:18 pm

joomla 1.5 + jseblod = a joomla still way way beyond joomla 1.6 so those who dont want to have issues upgrading, stay with joomla 1.5 and check out the cck's like jseblod, and others

http://community.joomla.org/blogs/commu ... ories.html after reading that I know the community of joomla will never be on the same page

wordpress allows for many cats for one article which is perfect for a directory site

and

joomla 1.5 + jseblod = a joomla still way way beyond joomla 1.6

will do the same

sad that there is nothing done to joomla 1.6 that we cant do with 1.5 right now

i mean if your gonna incorporate stuff already done by folks like jseblod, then giving people more options on how they would like to handle and display their content would make sense.\

sounds like 1.6 was built for those who built it, not for the community of voices like they do at jseblod extension, to bad those guys dont run things around here..

but if the result 1.6 is what the people who made it want, then thats what every is stuck with, for me, I am glad i have jseblod extension for 1.5

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by c3141jom » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:19 pm

severdia wrote:
Tarun wrote:There's an upgrade script available? Where? Is it official? Oh wait, no, there is not an official upgrade script; there is nothing in the Joomla distributable package that can help users straight of the box.
Why are you asking questions you already know the answer to? Correct, there's nothing in the 1.6 package that will help users upgrade from 1.5 to 1.6. Yes, that's a fact and nobody in their right mind would argue that.
Then why was 1.6 released? It's clearly incomplete.
Tarun wrote:All that is available is a single extension called jUpgrade that poorly handles multiple aspects of upgrading.
Keep in mind that Joomla 1.6 was released YESTERDAY. jUpgrade will improve in the coming weeks and other solutions may become available.
Doesn't matter. If you're going to release something and tout it as a final version (i.e no beta or alpha designation) then it should be complete. When users see that new version X of something has been released, and it doesn't have a beta or alpha designation, then it's not unreasonable for the users to expect it to be complete. Every other piece of software on Earth comes with some way to upgrade when a new version comes out. Without any built-in way to do an upgrade, 1.6 is pretty much useless for most people.
Tarun wrote:Common sense and good programming ethics/basics tell you to help your users and make things easy for them if you want to keep your user base. I've used several CMS' before I settled on Joomla, and they all had upgrade scripts. Joomla so far is the only one that shafts their users and has no means of upgrading.
What's your urgency to upgrade anyway? What's the "common sense" in upgrading to a new piece of software the first day it's released? How can you say "no means of upgrading" when there's a means of upgrading?

There needs to be a realignment of priorities. There are two camps of users in the Joomla community—ones who think all code should come from the community and the dev team should do very little, and the ones who think the dev team should do 99% of the work and minor patches should come from the community. It seems you're in the second camp. It so happens that more in the direction of the first camp is the way it should be. The community drives the development of the software and the Leadership Team provides the vision. The dev team tries to pick up slack where there's a gap in those two things, but there's a finite amount of hours and people. If something is important to someone in the community, they pick up a shovel and start working. That's what Matias did with jUpgrade. The dev team, being short on resources, recognized his effort coming from the Joomla community and embraced it.
What's the point of having a dev team then? Let's just give everyone SVN commit access and turn the entire thing into a veritable free for all. Being able to upgrade is not some fringe feature that only a few users would ever need. Being able to upgrade is something that pretty much every existing Joomla user will need. Being that it's so important, one would think that it would be a priority. Every other feature is moot if you can't actually use the product.

As for telling other people to "pick up the shovel", this is a very common fallacy that FOSS people like to commit. Just because you know how to program doesn't mean that your users know how to. When you design a piece of software in such a way that it practically requires programming knowledge in order to preform basic functions (yes, upgrading is a *basic* function) then you are going to doom yourself to failure. The few FOSS projects that have gained mainstream acceptance (like Firefox) understand this concept. Most FOSS projects do not.
Tarun wrote:The first thing that should have been taken care of when the decision to make 1.6 happened was to ensure your existing users could easily upgrade to the latest version. After that, you handle new users, and then everything else. Sadly, Joomla has shown (as of this post) that they learned nothing from the mess of 1.0 -> 1.5.
Thanks for that opinion, but it was secondary to getting 1.6 out and in the hands of people that need it.
Rushing releases is never a good idea. It's better to take the time to do it right rather than release an incomplete product.
Tarun wrote:I apologize if I sound irritated, please do not take any of this personally. Though I can honestly say I am very irritated at how poorly this upgrade has been handled. Spending over 6 hours on my test site trying to get the upgrade to work by several, various upgrade methods only to be forced to revert/stick with 1.5.
Yes, you sound very irritated. There's no sense in getting worked up over something that will change in the coming weeks. Keep in mind that 1.6 is on the bleeding edge right now and you would be called an "early adopter." If you want to ride that crest, you need to accept there are pros and cons. If you don't want to deal with those wait until more options are available and things will be smoother.
In other words, it's a BETA and should be labeled as such. That's what bleeding edge means. When you release a finalized version of something, that implies that it is complete.

A lot of the anger could have easily been avoided if 1.6 had been designated as such. At the very least, there should be something on the website indicated that there is no official way to upgrade. People shouldn't have to dig around the dark recesses of the forums in order to figure something that crucial out.

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by fampuero » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:27 pm

well finally i got a working upgrade with jupgrade.. BUT 50% of the data is gone...

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by hup » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:44 pm

:-(

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by toolbox978 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:29 pm

I've been a loyal Joomla user for several years now. It's helped me to create a non-profit organization that fundraises for cancer research in honor of my brother. I appreciate that the CMS is free, but I would gladly pay for something that is going to last, than to have free software that is going to become obsolete. If you're going to capitalize on the fact that it is free, then don't rub it in our faces. I'm a little taken back by the reaction of some of the admins here. If the attitude is deal with it or leave, then where's the incentive to stay with Joomla when I could just as easily go to a completely different CMS like Drupal or Wordpress? Not a nice way to treat the people who would gladly support you.

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by brian » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:36 pm

I really dont understand the need to migrate to unproven software today when you have 15 months minimum before joomla 1.5 reaches end of life.
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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by hup » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:41 pm

brian wrote:I really dont understand the need to migrate to unproven software today when you have 15 months minimum before joomla 1.5 reaches end of life.
Unproven?

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by brian » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:51 pm

Of course its unproven and it will remain that way until many many people install and use it, even if only on test sites. When you consider the millions of sites that are running Joomla 1.5 and then the number of people involved with releasing Joomla 1.6 it is a tiny number
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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by hup » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:58 pm

If it is unproven it did not need alpha, beta and candidate releases.

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by onajunket » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:11 pm

Tarun wrote:
Common sense and good programming ethics/basics tell you to help your users and make things easy for them if you want to keep your user base. I've used several CMS' before I settled on Joomla, and they all had upgrade scripts. Joomla so far is the only one that shafts their users and has no means of upgrading.

Now, don't get me wrong. I like Joomla. I think it's a very good CMS; but more thought should have gone into this. The first thing that should have been taken care of when the decision to make 1.6 happened was to ensure your existing users could easily upgrade to the latest version. After that, you handle new users, and then everything else. Sadly, Joomla has shown (as of this post) that they learned nothing from the mess of 1.0 -> 1.5.
Hear hear! agreed.

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by rand486 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:17 pm

hup, you are misunderstanding the term. The very reason open source is so powerful is because as more people use a piece of software, more bugs and vulnerabilities are found. Open source software can easily be fixed, whereas proprietary software is much more sluggish in response to new bugs.

It's the same reason proprietary encryption usually gets cracked and never fixed (ie smart cards), whereas open standards like RSA have existed for so long.

It's also the same reason no one is ever willing to call ANY piece of software "secure" or "bug-free".

Alphas, betas and RC's are intended as the first, second and third waves of bug catching, to try to get the most severe stuff. Operating systems, word processors, and any software the whole world over have this process as well. I've certainly crashed Windows, OS X, MS Office, Open office, GIMP, Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere...

All it means is as software becomes more venerated, it's strengths and weaknesses become "proven". Along the way, some of us just try to improve on the weaknesses :)

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Re: Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

Post by severdia » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:23 pm

c3141jom wrote: Then why was 1.6 released? It's clearly incomplete.
Well, that's your definition of complete, not the project's.
c3141jom wrote:
severdia wrote: Keep in mind that Joomla 1.6 was released YESTERDAY. jUpgrade will improve in the coming weeks and other solutions may become available.
Doesn't matter. If you're going to release something and tout it as a final version (i.e no beta or alpha designation) then it should be complete.
Again, you're defining what you'd consider to be "complete." And that's exactly what it is—YOUR definition.
c3141jom wrote:Without any built-in way to do an upgrade, 1.6 is pretty much useless for most people.
If it's useless for you, then don't upgrade or use it.
c3141jom wrote:What's the point of having a dev team then? Let's just give everyone SVN commit access and turn the entire thing into a veritable free for all. Being able to upgrade is not some fringe feature that only a few users would ever need. Being able to upgrade is something that pretty much every existing Joomla user will need. Being that it's so important, one would think that it would be a priority. Every other feature is moot if you can't actually use the product.
Absolutely correct. It's not a "fringe feature." But there's an officially "blessed" migrator created by a member of the community. Sorry if that's not good enough for you, but it's good enough for us.
c3141jom wrote:As for telling other people to "pick up the shovel", this is a very common fallacy that FOSS people like to commit. Just because you know how to program doesn't mean that your users know how to.
You couldn't be more wrong. I'm on the development team, but I'm not a developer. I'm a designer and user experience consultant. There are lots of people involved with Joomla that have no programming skills whatsoever. So you can forget about that "fallacy" that to contribute you need to be a PHP developer.
c3141jom wrote:In other words, it's a BETA and should be labeled as such. That's what bleeding edge means. When you release a finalized version of something, that implies that it is complete.
You kidding? Do you use any software other than Joomla? What kind of fantasy world is that where when something is declared "stable" it actually is? That goes for Apple, Adobe, Microsoft or any other software producer out there. When software is declared "final" it means it's ready for public consumption, not that it's perfect or bug free.
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