Tutorial for migration from 1.5 to 1.6?

[toolbox978]

No one here is discussing stability. It's the refusal to make it possible for your users to preserve their content between 1.5 and 1.6 that has us chapped. Content that can never be replaced. And your arrogance only makes it worse.

[trouble]

A lot of the anger could have easily been avoided if 1.6 had been designated as such. At the very least, there should be something on the website indicated that there is no official way to upgrade. People shouldn't have to dig around the dark recesses of the forums in order to figure something that crucial out.

+1
That is exactly the point I made on this forum when the RC was released. My opinion was beaten down.

[avagodro]

This may have been mentioned somewhere in all of posts, but after reading several, I wanted to chime in what my input.

There has been a lot of griping and complaining about a lack of a migration tool. Over the past many, many months I've been watching the progress of the new version. Everyone needs to keep in mind that 1.6 isn't a "minor" upgrade; if you looked "under the hood" you will find that Joomla! 1.6.0 has undergone a MAJOR rewrite.

Would a core migration tool have been nice? Sure, but considering all of the MAJOR upgrades and rewrites that the Development team did, I'm glad they focused on the primary engine. Rest assured that because there isn't a completed migration tool at this point, jUpgrade isn't stable yet, doesn't mean that there won't be.

What next...is there going to be complaining because other popular extentions aren't available for 1.6? Those that kept up with the development, and read 3rd party developers plans, would have seen that most developers were holding off on releasing their components, modules, plugins, and templates until there was a STABLE release. Their reasoning, which is completely understandable, it that during the various releases of 1.6, there were also major changes being made. It's possible that those working on a migration utility were waiting for a formal stable release as well. If I recall from when Joomla! 1.5 was released, migration utilities were being worked on in tandem with the project development, but it was a lot of extra work, since the developers of these migration tools have to keep rewriting to keep up with the changes in the core.

I would like to say THANK YOU to the Joomla! Development team. Joomla! 1.6.0 looks GREAT, and functions GREAT. I'm confident that in the weeks to come we are going to see many, many new releases of components, including a stable migration tool.

[severdia]

No one here is discussing stability.

Then you missed the last post where c3141jom claimed that calling a release "stable" meant it was "bug free."

It's the refusal to make it possible for your users to preserve their content between 1.5 and 1.6 that has us chapped. Content that can never be replaced. And your arrogance only makes it worse.

Have you tried the upgrader? Sounds like you haven't.

[severdia]

I would like to say THANK YOU to the Joomla! Development team. Joomla! 1.6.0 looks GREAT, and functions GREAT. I'm confident that in the weeks to come we are going to see many, many new releases of components, including a stable migration tool.

Much appreciated. Joomla 1.6 is still quite young (not even two days old!) and we have even more great stuff ahead of us.

[avagodro]

I would like to say THANK YOU to the Joomla! Development team. Joomla! 1.6.0 looks GREAT, and functions GREAT. I'm confident that in the weeks to come we are going to see many, many new releases of components, including a stable migration tool.

Much appreciated. Joomla 1.6 is still quite young (not even two days old!) and we have even more great stuff ahead of us.

Not a problem. I "played around" with a few of the beta releases, even an alpha release, and can say there were a lot of changes done during the progression. Version 1.6.0 Stable is much improved over betas.

In many ways, I do wish the dev team had classified 1.6 as something like 2.0 instead. Version 1.6 makes it seem as though its a minor update, rather than a major release. With pretty much a complete rewrite of the engine under the hood, many might not fully understand that there were major rewrites to everything, not just a few fixes.

[severdia]

In many ways, I do wish the dev team had classified 1.6 as something like 2.0 instead. Version 1.6 makes it seem as though its a minor update, rather than a major release. With pretty much a complete rewrite of the engine under the hood, many might not fully understand that there were major rewrites to everything, not just a few fixes.

I happen to agree but, as I mentioned in an earlier thread, I was outvoted on that point. The version strategy is here:

http://docs.joomla.org/Version_Strategy

According that that description, Joomla 1.6 is a "Major Release" because of the amount of rewrites and lack of compatibility with 1.5. There were quite a few framework changes, but not really a "major rework" (which can be a relative term...all the framework files were touched in one way or another). But, as I said, the team decision was to label it only a minor point release. I think it would have better communicated the scope of changes and amount of work needed to update. That being said, I felt the same about Joomla 1.5, which I think should have been called 2.0 (and therefore 1.6 called 3.0). that didn't happen so it is what it is.

[Tarun]

Previous data should never be incompatible no matter what version you go from. Be it 1.0 -> 1.5, 1.5 -> 1.6. It just needs to work and be properly upgrading from the previous version(s) automatically.

[rand486]

Previous data should never be incompatible no matter what version you go from. Be it 1.0 -> 1.5, 1.5 -> 1.6. It just needs to work and be properly upgrading from the previous version(s) automatically.

Try running a piece of software made for Windows 95 in Windows 7. Or software designed for a Mac from the PowerPC days on a current Intel x86 Mac running OS X. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Regardless, the data is not incompatible. The extension that allows the move just isn't here yet. Just as when Office 2007 came out, and the .docx file type confused most of the users. It was several months before the update for Office 2003 was released so it could also read .docx

[Tarun]

Try running a piece of software made for Windows 95 in Windows 7. <snip> Go ahead. I'll wait.

Oh look, Compatibility mode.

Regardless, the data is not incompatible. The extension that allows the move just isn't here yet. Just as when Office 2007 came out, and the .docx file type confused most of the users. It was several months before the update for Office 2003 was released so it could also read .docx

Regardless, an upgrade script should have been made readily available within the package, something officially made by Joomla, for Joomla. I've already expressed my thoughts and opinions on relying on a third party component. Much of this really should have been ready before 1.6 was officially released.

The data still needs to be upgraded/migrated. If the data is not incompatible, you'd be able to drop 1.6 in over 1.5.x and it'd work. Sadly, that is not the case.

I will admit it's nice to see that jUpgrade has a status on how much of everything is complete. Look forward to seeing it all be 100%.

I do notice that Joomla is running phpBB, and it makes me wonder. How would they feel if they went from say.. 3.0.x to 3.1.x and phpBB did not provide any means to upgrade or migrate the data? All they had to rely on was a third party extension that did not properly upgrade/migrate even half of the total data. You'd look at lost users, posts/threads, attachments, personal messages and much more. Just food for thought.

[davetanguay]

Try running a piece of software made for Windows 95 in Windows 7. Or software designed for a Mac from the PowerPC days on a current Intel x86 Mac running OS X. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Within the Compatibility settings in Windows 7 you can run programs as if they were running in Windows 95, 98, ME, 2000, Vista and XP.

It's really not fair to use that comparison anyways. A better comparison would be "Try upgrading Windows 95 to Windows 7" and yes it's possible.

Also, for comparison purposes... software designed for Windows 95 could be compared to Extensions designed for Joomla 1.0. The Windows OS could be compared to the Joomla core. We're not trying to run 1.0 extensions on 1.6 which your initial comparison is more in line with.

Users simply wanted an easier upgrade path for the Joomla core which Microsoft has always provided with new versions of their OS. No need to install a fresh copy of their new OS and "migrate" your data. In fact you could upgrade all of the way from 95 to Windows 7.

Also, there have been tons of OS versions since Windows 95. We're not talking about a Mambo or 1.0 to 1.6 upgrade. We're referring to an upgrade option from the latest stable version 1.5.22 to 1.6.

Can you imagine how pissed off Windows users would have been if Microsoft released Windows 7 without an upgrade option and basically told their users that they had to use third party tools to install a fresh copy and "migrate" their data?

It just doesn't make any sense.

Microsoft takes into account that older Windows users will want to upgrade to the latest and greatest whether they need it or not. Is it required? No, but they at least designed their OS with the current user base in mind and gave them an easy upgrade option instead of telling them things like the following which I have heard a lot on this forum in the last few days...

MICROSOFT: I don't understand what all this whining is about. Why do you want to upgrade anyways? Windows XP works just fine.

WINDOWS USER: I thought this was the latest and greatest like you hyped it up to be? I want to upgrade eventually since you won't provide support for older versions eventually.

MICROSOFT: Well that's too bad, you're on your own with the "migration" and besides you never told us what you wanted when we were developing it. I am sure you can pay some computer tech to do the migration for you. Sorry but we decided this is what was best for the software. And besides you just don't understand that our new version was built from the ground up and an upgrade is just not possible.

WINDOWS USER: Bye bye Microsoft. Hello Apple and Linux.

[rand486]

Within the Compatibility settings in Windows 7 you can run programs as if they were running in Windows 95, 98, ME, 2000, Vista and XP.

To that, I say Ha! Sure it works, some of the time. But I digress, we aren't talking about Windows here. It was just an example.

It's really not fair to use that comparison anyways. A better comparison would be "Try upgrading Windows 95 to Windows 7" and yes it's possible.

Fair, my metaphor was not perfect. However, even using your example, it's not the "one-click magic" that people are demanding here.

Also, there have been tons of OS versions since Windows 95. We're not talking about a Mambo or 1.0 to 1.6 upgrade. We're referring to an upgrade option from the latest stable version 1.5.22 to 1.6.

To that, I suggest you take a look at the version definitions. This is deemed a "minor release", which has the following description in the docs:

An increment of the minor number usually indicates a significant change in functionality. Moderate to high level of backward compatibility with previous minor increments.

The databases are indeed moderately to highly compatible. See my guide in another thread. The jos_content table migrates pretty much flawlessly.

WINDOWS USER: Bye bye Microsoft. Hello Apple and Linux.

I notice you didn't touch on my PowerPC to Intel example for Apple. They actually dropped all backwards compatibility in the move. Yes, it's possible to get it to work, but (at least originally) only with third party virtual machines.

Again, I was only using the metaphor to try to give people a new perspective. This argument is too near and dear to our hearts for many people to be thinking rationally. Compile into that, the fact that a large percentage of Joomla users are NOT techy, naturally, there will be a lot of misinterpretation of what Joomla "should do".

Just as I wouldn't question a surgeon on why he's making an incision or why a rocket scientist chose a certain fuel mixture, non-technical people are going to misunderstand why certain things are wiser paths than others. I'm not saying don't question it, I'm just saying don't punish the person who's doing their job properly, just because they don't understand why he's doing it that way.

[davetanguay]

I notice you didn't touch on my PowerPC to Intel example for Apple. They actually dropped all backwards compatibility in the move. Yes, it's possible to get it to work, but (at least originally) only with third party virtual machines.

I didn't touch on it because I'm a PC guy and besides Power PC to Intel was a hardware change if I am not mistaken.

Also we're not unhappy about backward compatibility... just the fact there is no easy upgrade option for the core for non-techs.

Also we don't necessarily want an easy 1-click upgrade, but at least an upgrade path similar to the one we have been using for Joomla 1.5.x patch updates. FTP some files and run a MySQL query would have been sufficient.

[rand486]

I didn't touch on it because I'm a PC guy any besides Power PC to Intel was a hardware change if I am not mistaken.

You are not mistaken. However, that meant that all software (including the OS) no longer worked on Intel machines, and Intel stuff didn't work on the PowerPC stuff. Apple left ALL of their customers "in the dark".

I mention it only to serve as a pointed remark that Joomla at least has a migrator coming. Far bigger communities have been screwed far harder than this.

Also we're not unhappy about backward compatibility... just the fact there is no easy upgrade option for the core for non-techs.

What's the difference? You want your 1.5 data to work in 1.6. That is what is called backward compatibility. It's not an unreasonable request, it's just not a human right, and users shouldn't be outraged and insulting/threatening the developers just because it isn't here yet.

A totally different argument is if it NEVER came. In that case, I'd be just as angry, and would be less shocked at the number of people that threaten to leave the CMS altogether.

What I don't understand is that people:
A) can't wait a few more days, weeks, whatever for the migrator. There were little to no complaints before the launch, and extensions exist to add many of the new features of 1.6 to Joomla 1.5 installs (including the ACL).

B) are threatening to leave the Joomla community. It is just as much work to remake your site in another CMS as it is to do so in Joomla 1.6. Probably even more, because you'd have to learn the new CMS, find all the extensions that do what you want all over again, and surely the process would be slower because of how you are used to doing it.

Also we don't necessarily want an easy 1-click upgrade, but at least an upgrade path similar to the one we have been using for Joomla 1.5.x patch updates. FTP some files and run a MySQL query would have been sufficient.

I should hope that the fact that the migrator isn't finished yet would be a hint that it ISN'T as simple as that. This is a much larger change than the 1.5.x patch. When you change database architecture, or major chunks of code, things will break. This isn't a small makeup job to cover a bruise, it's a broken arm that needs to be set and put in a cast.

[diavolo32]

What I don't understand is that people:
A) can't wait a few more days, weeks, whatever for the migrator. There were little to no complaints before the launch, and extensions exist to add many of the new features of 1.6 to Joomla 1.5 installs (including the ACL).

B) are threatening to leave the Joomla community. It is just as much work to remake your site in another CMS as it is to do so in Joomla 1.6. Probably even more, because you'd have to learn the new CMS, find all the extensions that do what you want all over again, and surely the process would be slower because of how you are used to doing it.

People must talk to understand each others. I'm going to try to answer some questions:

a) People got another point of view of things. People has these rights to be angry if they think they're not agree with some things. For example, the nightmare? of migrating. There's people on Joomla! talking in forums about procedures, and the famous JUpgrade. Well, it has fails, the developer is doing a great job, but he knows the risk who has a final user with the migration, because it needs tech level that most of Joomla! users don't have.

b) The great luck -it's a joke- of the Joomla! developers is a non written law: when people uses a software -eg. photoshop, windows or linux- for years and test it, the like to use the same because they know it, it became familiar.

So most will prefer to [censored] in the dead of Moby Dick, stay with Joomla!, than to switch to Drupal or Wordpress. However, if you carry things to the limit, would make the decision myself because I have not see why not to use the new Ferrari 1.6, which says the publicity is the best thing since sliced bread, which is because there is no tutorial to migrate. Well, no script or anything. So, that sounds like that to see if it sounds the flute because, you know, even the procedures that I have been good to me with the problems of Joomla on servers, files, errors, etc. has not served to others because they have a different setting from the server, another version, other components, the plugin I had not seen that makes me not know what else fails ... If you already managing Joomla!, you know has its difficulties ... Anyway, I think that is a real communication problem, who's don't directly, done well, no doubt, on the cover of portal Joomla!, a big fat article either to warn in the first beta or the fifth, ladies and gentlemen, 1.6 is a different thing, an evolution, and we can not give you tools to update or upgrade. Of course I these this is very negative for the reputation -comparation with others CMS- and gives a bad image, so I guess they did not say it for some reason. Carelessness, forgetfulness, saw no need. In any case, a fatal error.

Do you love my exotic english?

[magnoliaweb]

I can't contain myself any more.

I have to say I am VERY disappointed in the attitude about the upgrade path on 1.6. I agree totally with Brian who said "I really dont understand the need to migrate to unproven software today when you have 15 months minimum before joomla 1.5 reaches end of life."

Further, I wouldn't even entertain the idea of upgrading any of my sites or client sites at this time. There needs to be a time of testing in the community, adding new extensions for 1.6 and a multitude of other things. These things happen with time.

Upgrading should be the LEAST of anyone's concern at this point. And to further pound the developers who worked so hard on this release over this "missing" part is ludicrous.

This is a community software, not a corporate software. If you want to see something that is missing, ante up and volunteer to help.

Sandra

[aemiller]

I want to add my hearty "Thank You!" to the members of the development team who worked so hard to bring us 1.6. I have done some localhost testing and like what I see. I plan to migrate one of two of my simpler sites to 1.6 to test it further.

I hear a lot of complaining on the forum. Folks - what's the great big rush? 1.5 served us well and will continue to do so. In the meantime, I am sure that more developed extensions will emerge to help with the migration.

Again, "Thank You!" development team.

[nzampella]

I second the Big Thank You to the development team. I've got a small business, putting together websites for small churches. I looked around, found Joomla, and won't look back at anything else.

While I'd like to move to 1.6, most of the extensions I use are just not compatible at this time. I can take the time to migrate the templates in use, but if I don't have the extensions working in 1.6 that I need for those templates to work properly, I'm not even going to think about it.

I can understand the frustration of some, as I'd like to be able to use the ACL capabilities, but I'm not about to tell my existing customers that their sites will not work properly right now, and that we're going to have to wait until some extensions get migrated.

So I'll wait, and I'll wait as long as I have to. There are extensions that do give ACL capabilities, albeit not as integrated as 1.6 has them. The websites I support still work, the extensions for 1.5 still perform. The sky is not falling.

[sungkhum]

WINDOWS USER: I thought this was the latest and greatest like you hyped it up to be? I want to upgrade eventually since you won't provide support for older versions eventually.

MICROSOFT: Well that's too bad, you're on your own with the "migration" and besides you never told us what you wanted when we were developing it. I am sure you can pay some computer tech to do the migration for you. Sorry but we decided this is what was best for the software. And besides you just don't understand that our new version was built from the ground up and an upgrade is just not possible.

WINDOWS USER: Bye bye Microsoft. Hello Apple and Linux.

Haha - nice A perfect analogy.
What still boggles my mind is when 1.6 was released I couldn't find ANYTHING written to current users. It was as if joomla didn't have any previous releases or users at all! I had to dig around to figure out going from 1.5 to 1.6 would be a pain. They could have at least told us on the front end! Maybe less people would be mad.

[tamilmaran]

i used jupgrade now after upgradation to j1.6 i cant unpublish the menu.. all my installed compenents are gone
please help me solve this issue
thank you

[aemiller]

sungkhum -

Maybe less people would be mad.

I doubt it.

[aemiller]

tamilmaran - You may need to reinstall those components. Some may not be compatible with Joomla 1.6.

[nzampella]

i used jupgrade now after upgradation to j1.6 i cant unpublish the menu.. all my installed compenents are gone
please help me solve this issue
thank you

Restore to your 1.5 version, and as the previous post said, check to make sure all the components are ready for 1.6.

[sem-seo]

What about customer service, you know what i mean.

Yep, we know... You want your money back...

This a free CMS and you/we are not considered as "customers" and, although we voluntarily —on our free time— provide this tool for all to use as fit, we are not providing to you a "service".

I don't remember having received any "fee" for the "service".

JUpdate is not ready yet, where is the big deal?
1.5.x is there for long enough to see JUpdate working fine and new extensions ready for 1.6.

Nobody forced you to use 1.5.x and nobody forces you to immediately move to 1.6.
If you are satisfied with 1.5, it makes us feel good.

Thank you.

haha, very good.... I just stated somewhere else that even the latest products of some most no-Open Source Software are usually a bit buggy, though well documented..

[topcat4ever]

about 5 years ago I started out on 1.0 As a complete novice Globals Register Off gave me fits. The forums got me through it. I learned to wait until 1.5 was stable and had a good shakedown before I converted. Thanks to these forums and countless developers I have a beautiful site and complete confidence in the joomla team and the users who prowl these forums. I have learned to be careful and patient. I will eventually upgrade. First I have to make sure that the few extensions I use have been upgraded. I will watch the forums for what other people are saying. I will watch for template browser compatibility and a whole lot of things before I just jump in. I love my joomla site. I will keep pace with progress but I will be patient. The solution will come. I have no doubt of that. And I'll probably receive an email saying, "The solution is Here".

[free-rebel]

about 5 years ago I started out on 1.0 As a complete novice Globals Register Off gave me fits. The forums got me through it. I learned to wait until 1.5 was stable and had a good shakedown before I converted. Thanks to these forums and countless developers I have a beautiful site and complete confidence in the joomla team and the users who prowl these forums. I have learned to be careful and patient. I will eventually upgrade. First I have to make sure that the few extensions I use have been upgraded. I will watch the forums for what other people are saying. I will watch for template browser compatibility and a whole lot of things before I just jump in. I love my joomla site. I will keep pace with progress but I will be patient. The solution will come. I have no doubt of that. And I'll probably receive an email saying, "The solution is Here".

exactly, that's answer of profesional

[hup]

http://docs.joomla.org/Tutorial:Migrati ... Joomla_1.6

[Affableaardvark]

Thank you very much for the 1.6 release. I am sure that new users will enjoy the many enhancements. As a 1.5 user I can wait for a migration tool as I have over 1000 articles and need the update to go smoothly. I think it is important to realise that Joomla is being constantly improved by the legions of software guru's who give there time and knowledge freely.
Thank you again for all your efforts and I hope, that now we have a stable 1.6 release the experts can provide a solution for for the upgrade. Your hard work is appreciated!

[coldclimber]

I can not believe some of the posts I am reading here you selfish ****** We as a web design company have been using joomla since 2006 and still have clients on Joomla 1.12 running e-commerce sites and doing very well from it. We have no intention of upgrading their sites until they are ready for a complete overhaul. Why try to fix something that is not broken and works very well. If you secure your Joomla site correctly it will last the test of time.

We are looking forward to using 1.6 and will be developing our first site with it this week. As for everyone else on 1.5 our clients are more than happy with what they have. So why upgrade to 1.6. answer? NONE. The site is secure the site ranks and works well, if they are happy so are we.

Joomla is free so stop moaning and get on with it. Otherwise create your own cms, or go and pay thousands for a similar bespoke system.

The end.

[rand486]

Coldclimber, I believe you meant 1.0.12. Joomla 1.6 just came out, so if you have 1.12, please share with us!

In any case, most (if not all) of the ranting has slowed/stopped, no sense in stirring it up again. Besides, I got the vibe that most of the people that were upset were non-technical, which lead to two forms of anger:

1) They weren't technical enough to understand why NOT upgrading to 1.6 is OK, let alone possibly even a GOOD idea right now.

2) They CAN'T make their own CMS, so comments like that kind of peeve them off

Regardless, I suggest we not stir the pot again. Some people are upset, others stuck up for the Joomla dev's. It's pretty settled now. Not to mention, the actual question the thread intended is now answered (question was "Can I have a tutorial", answer was a link to the documentation that recently got created).

Let's mark this one as [SOLVED] in the thread title and call it a day, regardless of our view on how the newest version of Joomla launched.