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Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:46 pm
by fampuero
after several fail jupgrade´s i have a QUADRUPLE content, with nothing inside web!!

then i realize that i must do a clean sweap, but guess what? NOTHING can´t be erase!!

i mean, it goes off from the list, but not in the category list... and the most sad thing is that i cant ´recover´ anything cause there is not an option for that..

bottom line, don´t try to upgrade anything....

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:53 pm
by phill104
Bottom line, always make a backup before trying something new.

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:01 pm
by wgdejonge
phill104 wrote:Bottom line, always make a backup before trying something new.
Exactly, this has nothing to do with jupgrade fail!
You should properly backup up or use a testserver, but do not blame this on the developper.

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:09 pm
by trouble
fampuero wrote:after several fail jupgrade´s i have a QUADRUPLE content, with nothing inside web!!

then i realize that i must do a clean sweap, but guess what? NOTHING can´t be erase!!

i mean, it goes off from the list, but not in the category list... and the most sad thing is that i cant ´recover´ anything cause there is not an option for that..

bottom line, don´t try to upgrade anything....
jUpgrade doesn't touch your existing 1.5 web site! You can run it on your live site and it won't be affected! Always make a backup first though! Just in case.

If you ran jUpgrade multiple times. you may have multiple content in Joomla 1.6 which was installed by jUpgrade (at www.yourdomain.com/jupgrade/)

I'm planning on writing some code for jUpgrade to allow users to clean up any previous 1.6 attempts to migrate. Until then you can clean up the 1.6 installation and database manually, but I wouldn't recommend it if you are not very computer literate.

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:25 am
by fampuero
HA HA HA, i never said that it was my live site!!!!!!!!! th jupgrade was the clone x 4 one. omg so many ´tech´ here....

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:00 am
by brad
fampuero wrote:..so many ´tech´ here....
Yes, that is be expected considering the main subject of these forums.

You might want to ease up on the "slang" lest you give away your real age or skill level. There ARE many very skilled and smart people around here, and you can benefit from their experience. If you choose to, well.. that is up to you.

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:43 am
by MW11
> bottom line, don´t try to upgrade anything....

I hear you!

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:43 pm
by Nick Savov
MW11 wrote:> bottom line, don´t try to upgrade anything....

I hear you!
If you had a chance of messing up your live site I would agree...but jUpgrade creates a copy of your site so you can test the waters first.

So please instead try to upgrade and help out in the project. You can read the info and ways to help here:
http://docs.joomla.org/Tutorial:Migrati ... Joomla_1.6

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:28 am
by MW11
It's funny how threads develop...

A) because OP/absolute beginner advises in effect,
"Don't do it, because your code will multiply, yet your upgrades will fail,
and then you'll have to delete lots of stuff, and delete it manually!"

B) because an absolute beginner responds and says in effect, "OP, it was your fault!"

C) because another absolute beginner responds and says in effect, "That's right, OP, it was your fault!"

D) because a new developer responds and says in effect, "That's right, OP, it was your fault!"

E) because another developer responds, offering little or no effective help,
because he says in effect, "Let us praise the developers!"

F) because pretty much only the last poster offers help,
because he points to an existing documentation
(which had been invisible so far).

However, is the documentation he points to good enough for all intents and purposes?

1. From my experience, first of all, and for starters,
before you can do an upgrade,
you will need a flawlessly working Joomla version 1.5.22.,
This takes priority before everything else!
My version 1.5.22 doesn't seem to be flawless,
because on my site the "Extensions >> Install/Uninstall >>
>> Browse >> Select com_jupgrade >> Upload file"
part is NOT functioning in the first place;
and all I get is a bunch of error messages.

2. When I attempt to follow instructions in this documentation,
I find the instructions in it are ambiguous, cryptic, or both.
For example, "Browse" where? And browse for what file type?
All these details are extremely important, especially for absolute beginners,
yet they don't seem to be important enough to the Technical Writer
of the document who tends to skip over important details like these,
because he/she:

a) Assumes the user's version 1.5.22 was installed perfectly (no, chances are, it wasn't!),
b) Assumes that pretty much everything in his/her document is self-explanatory (no, it's not!), and
c) Assumes all upgrades from 1.5.22 to 1.6 go flawlessly (no, they don't!)

In conclusion, should we attempt to upgrade?
I tend to agree with the OP....
NO, we shouldn't!
Why?

a) Because chances are your version 1.5.22 wasn't installed perfectly,
b) Because the above-mentioned documentation is incomplete and/or cryptic, and
c) Because many upgrades from 1.5.22 to 1.6 are a pain in the back that lead to other complications!

So, what are we going to do?
At this point I tend to favor a clean installation of Joomla version 1.6.
However, fellow prospective users, be careful!
1) Chances are, a clean installation of version 1.6 is another can of worms!
2) Chances are you're on your own; i.e. you won't be able get any help when you need help the most!

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:33 am
by Nick Savov
Hi MW11,
MW11 wrote:However, is the documentation he points to good enough for all intents and purposes?

1. From my experience, first of all, and for starters,
before you can do an upgrade,
you will need a flawlessly working Joomla version 1.5.22.,
This takes priority before everything else!
My version 1.5.22 doesn't seem to be flawless,
because on my site the "Extensions >> Install/Uninstall >>
>> Browse >> Select com_jupgrade >> Upload file"
part is NOT functioning in the first place;
and all I get is a bunch of error messages.
Do you want the tutorial to make you a cup of coffee too? :pop

Perhaps you can start by what error messages you are getting and someone can try to help you out. ;)
MW11 wrote: 2. When I attempt to follow instructions in this documentation,
I find the instructions are ambiguous, cryptic, or both.
For example, "Browse" where? And browse for what file type?
Do you only have one example or do you have more?

The image was accidentally left out, but it is self-explanatory when you follow this step:
"Extensions >> Install/Uninstall" you are taken to a page with a "Browse" button and an "Upload File & Install"...so the next step you read is: Browse >> Select com_jupgrade >> Upload File & Install.

Once again, the image was accidentally left out.
MW11 wrote: All these details are extremely important, especially for absolute beginners,
yet they don't seem to be important to the Technical Writer
of the document
I didn't write the documentation for the docs.joomla.com tutorial. It was copied (with permission) from our blog and pasted into there by someone else, including the images. The person simply forgot one image to paste in there, as you can see the original contains it.
MW11 wrote: Who tends to skip over important details like this,
Once again, do you only have one example or do you have more? I will be more than glad to include important details that I "tend" to skip over.
MW11 wrote: a) Assumes the version 1.5.22 was installed perfectly ,
Obviously I am going to assume that Joomla 1.5.22 is working correctly and I am not going to assuming that you have 48.3 problems.
MW11 wrote: (no, chances are, it wasn't!)
Why would you try migrating if you are getting errors on your Joomla 1.5.22 installation? On second thought, why would you even be reading about migration if you have errors on your Joomla 1.5.22 installation?

MW11 wrote: b) Assumes that pretty much everything is self-explanatory (no, it's not!),
What isn't? I can try and add more to the documentation if it wasn't, so perhaps you can be a bit more clear about what isn't self-explanatory.
MW11 wrote: and
c) Assumes all upgrades from 1.5.22 to 1.6 go flawlessly (no, they don't!)
No I don't. That's why I said "Please do a full site review of your Joomla 1.6 installation and make sure everything is set up properly."

Also, that is why there is a troubleshooting section which will continue to be filled in as more is reported.

Also, the very fact that I included:
"Report Bugs: http://matware.com.ar/foros/jupgrade.html"

shows that I don't assume everything goes flawlessly.
MW11 wrote: In conclusion, should we attempt to upgrade?
I tend to agree with the OP....
no, we shouldn't!
Why?
In conclusion, I repeat myself again:
If you had a chance of messing up your live site I would agree...but jUpgrade creates a copy of your site so you can test the waters first.

So please instead try to upgrade and help out in the project. You can read the info and ways to help here:
http://docs.joomla.org/Tutorial:Migrati ... Joomla_1.6

One way of helping out, whether or not you know it, is by doing exactly what you are doing right now and that is pointing out errors (or "bugs" if you will).
Just be a little more gentle and patient please... ;)

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:55 am
by MW11
Unworthyslave,

Sorry, I meant no offense, of course.
You seem to be implying and
ONLY NOW I'm beginning to realize that
you might have contributed to the documentation you pointed to.
Really? I've had no idea!

I meant no offense, of course.
On the positive side,
please notice I singled YOU out
as the most helpful contributor so far!

On the positive side, maybe there is hope.
Maybe, just maybe,
when I get into another unending cycle of frustration with Joomla,
trying to tweak the Joomla installation to make it functional,
then maybe, just maybe, you will be willing to help.

To tell you the truth,
I've had far more than my share of Joomla issues,
and I see nothing personal about the documentation,
or the lack of it.

I look at the documentation
as a collection of instructions,
purely instructions,
and nothing more than
a set of instructions.

Please don't take it personally, because
it has nothing to do with you, or anyone else.

What you keep reading is an indication
as to how frustrating it can be to try to follow instructions
that are less than perfect.

Naturally, we expect perfection,
however, by definition there never is,
and never will be any perfection,
because every set of instruction can be criticized,
and criticized for a good reason,
because no set of instruction will fit the personality of every user,
and/or the installation issues of every user!

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:06 am
by Nick Savov
Hi MW11,

No worries 8)

If you want to help out though it would be greatly appreciated. You can let me know what part of the tutorial was difficult to understand I can try modifying to be more clear :D

Kind regards,
Nick

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:21 am
by MW11
Hi Nick,
Unlike many others,
while I'm writing this,
you're like a FRIEND who is here for me,
It amazes me how you're able to respond so quickly! How do you do it?
Amazing!

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:35 am
by MW11
unworthyslave wrote:If you want to help out though it would be greatly appreciated. You can let me know what part of the tutorial was difficult to understand I can try modifying to be more clear
Nick, You're a great guy,
and I'm really sorry,
if I implied anything to the contrary!

FYI, here are up to 10 specific issues
that I would've loved to read about in the documentation,
especially if they were documented in great details.

Issue #1:
------------
Do we have the option of a manual upgrade?
Maybe, just maybe, only a couple of additional folders need to be added,
and then, as soon as those folders are added manually,
magically, our version 1.5.22 is suddenly transformed to 1.6.

Issue #2:
------------
Assuming we decide upon the automated upgrade,
then, for starters, how can we tell that our version 1.5.22
is running sufficiently well enough to be able to upgrade to 1.6?

Issue #3:
------------
As to installing jUpgrade, why jUpgrade?
Is it a really good extension,
and/or is it the only recommended one?

Issue #4:
------------
As to preparing to install jUpgrade,
WHERE do you browse for jUpgrade?
Do you need to download something?
Then perhaps uncompress it,
before it can be installed?

Issue #5:
-----------
As to preparing to install jUpgrade,
and when you're browsing,
when you say "select com_jupgrade"
what FILE TYPE are you looking for?
For example,
a) a zip file is what we want?
b) is it com_jupgrade-0.5.2.zip what we want?

Issue #6:
------------
As to preparing to install jUpgrade,
http://www.mysite.com/administrator page
gives me all kinds of options,
does it really matter which one is it that I choose?
Because none of the followings has been functional on my site:
a) upload package file,
b) install from directory,
c) install from URL.
However, it's also true that
only "a" gives me the option to browse, select, and upload.
But then, why the existence of the other options,
and why should I ignore the other two options?

Issue #7:
------------
As to preparing to install jUpgrade,
http://www.mysite.com/administrator page
if I use the "upload package file" option,
and if I do everything correctly,
i.e. browse, select, upload,
then why do I keep getting
an error message?
What a pleasure it's to see:
"WARNING! Failed to move file!"
Why am I getting this message?
Does this mean that my version of 1.5.22 is corrupted?
Or, am I doig something wrong?
Or, am I not persistent enough, and
I should keep trying to upload the zip file?

Issue #8:
------------
According to the "help" files of the "/administrator" page,
I need to "browse" to the location
where I downloaded the Extension's archive file,
then I need to press "Upload File & Install",
and then Joomla will read the contents of the archive file,
and install the extension, and
when it's finished, the screen will display the message
"Install Component Success", and
if the installation is not successful,
an error message will display.
However, I keep seeing:
"WARNING! Failed to move file!"
"Unable to find install package"
Please tell me, why am I getting this error message?
How come Joomla is "unable to find install package"?
I do know it's there!
Or, does this mean that my copy of 1.5.22 was corrupted?
Or, am I doig something wrong?
Or, am I not persistent enough, and
I should keep trying to upload this very same zip file?
Now that I have tried to upload it five times,
how many times should I try it?

You see, I haven't even read the first half of your document,
and I'm unable to proceed any further.

Issue #9:
------------
What frustrates me (and probably many other users),
is how our experience is totally different
from the idealized experience
that we read in help files,
and in documentation files.

Issue #10:
-------------
Surely, I understand the documentation
cannot possibly cover all possible scenarios,
however, is it too much to ask,
if we ask for the coverage
of the 4 or 5 most likely error message scenarios?

Issue #11:
-------------
I'm sure there are and will be many other issues as well,
however this is all that I've been able to come up with
in a hurry, as to the first half of the document.

Issue #13:
--------------
As soon as I see the light at the end of the tunnel,
and as soon as I'm able to proceed with the installation of jUpgrade,
I'm sure I will be able to find other issues as well,
in the 2nd half of your document.

However, I shouldn't keep going like this,
because it might be painful for you
to read about your document,
i a negative light like this, that is
to read about issues like these,
in a negative fashion like this.

I hope this helps.

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:20 am
by Nick Savov
Hi MW11,

Great questions! :)

I'm heading to bed at the moment, however I can clear up some of these tomorrow for you :)

Kind regards,
Nick

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:27 am
by MW11
unworthyslave wrote:Hi MW11,
Great questions! :)
I'm heading to bed at the moment, however I can clear up some of these tomorrow for you :)
Kind regards,
Nick
Sounds good!

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:39 am
by Nick Savov
Hi MW11,

I am going to have to keep it short for tonight but here is some information to get you started:
MW11 wrote:
Issue #1:
------------
Do we have the option of a manual upgrade?
Maybe, just maybe, only a couple of additional folders need to be added,
and then, as soon as those folders are added manually,
magically, our version 1.5.22 is suddenly transformed to 1.6.
No, not really at the moment. And there is very little documentation on it.
MW11 wrote: Issue #2:
------------
Assuming we decide upon the automated upgrade,
then, for starters, how can we tell that our version 1.5.22
is running sufficiently well enough to be able to upgrade to 1.6?
Going through the "Before You Get Started" part of the tutorial should be enough. Obviously, if you have errors on your current installation, you shouldn't even consider migrating until you get those sorted.
MW11 wrote: Issue #3:
------------
As to installing jUpgrade, why jUpgrade?
Is it a really good extension,
and/or is it the only recommended one?
It is a really good extension and it is the only recommended one right now. The primary reason though is that it is practically the only one...
MW11 wrote: Issue #4:
------------
As to preparing to install jUpgrade,
WHERE do you browse for jUpgrade?
Do you need to download something?
Then perhaps uncompress it,
before it can be installed?
Please just follow this tutorial (edit: updated the link to point to the wiki because the image was corrected):
http://docs.joomla.org/Tutorial:Migrati ... Joomla_1.6

It tells you that you need to download it first. Then just upload it and install. If you follow the tutorial step by step, it is hard to get lost.

The tutorial that you saw previously on docs.joomla.org accidentally was left out. I have notified the uploader and he will get it fixed when he gets a chance.

MW11 wrote: Issue #5:
-----------
As to preparing to install jUpgrade,
and when you're browsing,
when you say "select com_jupgrade"
what FILE TYPE are you looking for?
For example,
a) a zip file is what we want?
b) is it com_jupgrade-0.5.2.zip what we want?
Zip. Yes, com_jupgrade-0.5.2.zip. I just left out the latter part because the versions will change. Maybe I should have put com_jupgrade-x-x-x.zip?

MW11 wrote: Issue #6:
------------
As to preparing to install jUpgrade,
http://www.mysite.com/administrator page
gives me all kinds of options,
does it really matter which one is it that I choose?
Because none of the followings has been functional on my site:
a) upload package file,
b) install from directory,
c) install from URL.
However, it's also true that
only "a" gives me the option to browse, select, and upload.
But then, why the existence of the other options,
and why should I ignore the other two options?
If none are functioning, then you definitely need to get that sorted first. What error message are you getting? (I am assuming issue 7)

Option A is the way to go. The other two options are primarily there to get around some host's restrictions on file uploads.
MW11 wrote: Issue #7:
------------
As to preparing to install jUpgrade,
http://www.mysite.com/administrator page
if I use the "upload package file" option,
and if I do everything correctly,
i.e. browse, select, upload,
then why do I keep getting
an error message?
What a pleasure it's to see:
"WARNING! Failed to move file!"
Why am I getting this message?
Does this mean that my version of 1.5.22 is corrupted?
Or, am I doig something wrong?
Or, am I not persistent enough, and
I should keep trying to upload the zip file?
Looks like it is a permissions issue. Try this:
http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions ... tion/14087


MW11 wrote: Issue #8:
------------
According to the "help" files of the "/administrator" page,
I need to "browse" to the location
where I downloaded the Extension's archive file,
then I need to press "Upload File & Install",
and then Joomla will read the contents of the archive file,
and install the extension, and
when it's finished, the screen will display the message
"Install Component Success", and
if the installation is not successful,
an error message will display.
However, I keep seeing:
"WARNING! Failed to move file!"
"Unable to find install package"
Please tell me, why am I getting this error message?
How come Joomla is "unable to find install package"?
I do know it's there!
Or, does this mean that my copy of 1.5.22 was corrupted?
Or, am I doig something wrong?
Or, am I not persistent enough, and
I should keep trying to upload this very same zip file?
Now that I have tried to upload it five times,
how many times should I try it?

You see, I haven't even read the first half of your document,
and I'm unable to proceed any further.
See #7 :)
MW11 wrote: Issue #9:
------------
What frustrates me (and probably many other users),
is how our experience is totally different
from the idealized experience
that we read in help files,
and in documentation files.
Relax. It's just one issue. We'll try and sort through it 8)

MW11 wrote: Issue #10:
-------------
Surely, I understand the documentation
cannot possibly cover all possible scenarios,
however, is it too much to ask,
if we ask for the coverage
of the 4 or 5 most likely error message scenarios?
I am trying to include that stuff in the troubleshooting section however it primarily focuses with issues related to jUpgrade. The issue that you have is independent from jUpgrade and it happens when you try to install any extension. I don't think it's practical to have such issues in a tutorial.


I hope this short explanation helps! :D

Kind regards,
Nick

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:36 am
by MW11
I installed version 1.5.22 and it's a flop.
In a few days I will wipe it off completely,
and do a clean install of version 1.6.
and keep praying that issue #7 will not come up.

Yes, what you've written does help.

It will also help me and others,
if you can include this stuff in the troubleshooting section.

Yes, I understand what you write primarily focuses on issues related to jUpgrade.

You're kind of correct that the issue that my Joomla has is kind of independent from jUpgrade,
because it happens when I try to install jUpgrade as welll as any other any extension.

However, it DOES have a LOT to do with installations and all installations,
because this is one of the MOST ESSENTIAL requirements of all installations,
including the installation of the jUpgrade extension!

The problem is, this step is a BOTTLE-NECK!
Meaning, if this step is not working, then nothing else will be working!

Additionally, there is no way manual installations can be done,
so it's really-really a bottleneck, when the installation is not working!
And then there will be no way to proceed with anything, NOT even with jUpgrade!

If you don't think it's impractical to have this issue in your tutorial,
then up to 9 in 10 users will be stuck with this issue,
and then they won't be able to use your manual!

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:08 am
by Nick Savov
Hi MW11,

Once again, it looks like it is a permissions issue and you should try this:
http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions ... tion/14087
MW11 wrote: If you don't think it's impractical to have this issue in your tutorial,
then up to 9 in 10 users will be stuck with this issue,
and then they won't be able to use your manual!
No, 9 in 10 users will not be stuck with this issue. Absolutely no where even remotely close to that. :pop

Kind regards,
Nick

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:52 am
by MW11
Thanks for being so agreeable. I will always treasure your post.

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:58 am
by MW11
unworthyslave wrote:Once again, it looks like it is a permissions issue and you should try this
This is not helpful!

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:26 pm
by Nick Savov
Are you still getting the same error? If so, I'll look into it more later this afternoon.

Kind regards,
Nick

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:44 pm
by jhnbrwn
phill104 wrote:Bottom line, always make a backup before trying something new.
Its the only solution and ultimate remedy from getting harm.
However, if I ever caught by such problems, I do consult some professionals' services to get appropriate solution because of time saving.

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:42 pm
by mailm
It sounds very much to me like a permissions issue or an issue with your tmp/session paths.
I found this worth reading http://docs.joomla.org/Why_can%27t_you_ ... ensions%3F Why can't you install any extensions?

i also agree that installing admin tools wont help much if you cant install any extension sdue to "move failed"

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:26 am
by Nick Savov
mailm wrote: i also agree that installing admin tools wont help much if you cant install any extension sdue to "move failed"
Oh, wow! Great point! I usually don't make mistakes like that but I blew it on this one :-[

MW11, check with your host on the correct tmp folder location and ask them to check if it's writable.

Re: Don´t even try to upgrade

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:28 pm
by Nick Savov
Short update:

The image has been fixed on the wiki as well as new troubleshooting tips have been added:
http://docs.joomla.org/Tutorial:Migrati ... Joomla_1.6