Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

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Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Tonie » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:09 am

Discussion on the Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ that can be found here: http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=625&t=586464

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by RLMohsen » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:13 pm

Migration to the July 2011 release - We are planning to implement a site importer in this release that will allow you to import your data from either Joomla! 1.5 or Joomla! 1.6.
here: http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leade ... uture.html

Does this mean that if I wait til July I will be able to safely upgrade (import) to 1.6 from my current 1.5 site?

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Tonie » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:35 am

The july release will be 1.7. If you have to, you can use this method right now. If your 1.5 site is working correctly, I'd probably wait until 1.7. http://docs.joomla.org/Tutorial:Migrati ... Joomla_1.6

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by red2678 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:01 pm

That is such great news!

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by b0ss » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:13 pm

i did the process described and the result is basically a clean install. My mods, components, plugins and templates are gone. All that's left are the users. The K2 articles, the thousand or so Kunena posts are gone.

What step did i miss? Do i have to lose all that data to gain ACLs? HELP!

i've made back ups so i haven't lost anything but time and faith.

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:38 pm

Why bring out J1.6 when J1.7 is due out in only 6 months ?

Will Templates and extensions for 1.6 work on 1.7 ?

With 1.6 having such a short life span cause developers to think twice about supporting it by developing modules for it ?

With 1.5 only being supported for about a year and 1.6 being superseded in 6 months time when 1.7 coming into existence..... will that not put people off using Joomla ?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by red2678 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:36 pm

@Webdongle those are some good questions. :pop

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Tonie » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:34 pm

Note that I am not part of the development team, but have some knowledge of the project ;).

For all major releases, Mambo 4.5.3 (which was never released as such), Joomla 1.5, and now Joomla 1.6 there was a lot of trouble with the release dates. Part of this due to the difficulties of working with the old 1.0 code. One change lead to another change, lead to another changes, and so on. Part due to not having enough developers to finish it faster, and a few other reasons.

To change this, Joomla will adopt a half year release cycle. People can code in branches, and if something is ready it can go into trunk which will become the next version. If code is not finished on time, it will not go into the next version of Joomla. This means that in july 2010 we get 1.7, january 2011 1.7, etc. Every third release (1.5, 1,7) will be Long Term Support (about two years).

Instead of development cycles of 3 years, we get cycles of half a year. This means that the changes will be smaller. My personal expectation is that 1.7 will be a big service pack with some smaller features that does not change the code a lot. I haven't seen an indication that code is already ready for 1.7.

1.5 will be supported for three months after the next LTS, which would be april 2012. Since it was release in february 2008, it will have been supported for a bit more than four years, which is enough in my opinion. For the new LTS releases, support will be almost two years. This, in my opinions, it too short but time will tell.

The change from 1.5 to 1.6 is a lot smaller than from 1.0 to 1.5. The database encoding is the same (UTF-8), and the MVC is still used. I had a simple extension that followed the MVC of 1.5, and had it running on 1.6 in 1.5 hours. If you have bigger extensions, mileage will vary. From what I am reading now is that the closer developers stay true to the MVC, the easier the upgrades become.

The release cycles is much more in line with a lot of the open source projects that work with set time frames for writing/releasing. It's common in a lot of projects that have to do with Linux.

There are a lot of questions that remain, but only time will tell if this structure is going to work or not. The current structure didn't work, so changes have to be made. If this does not work, other changes will come. Right now it's impossible to tell what is going to happen. Questions like: are the idea of distributions (Molajo, Nooku) going to work? Is Joomla going to focus on the framework alone? How easy is the upgrading going to be? How will 3rd party developers be able to support their extensions easily? Etc., etc. Which major new features are going to be added? How much work are these features going to cause for people upgrading? Is the core output going to change? Probably can think of a lot more questions if needed. One thing is sure, it is going to be an interesting ride again.

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:01 pm

Tonie wrote:...
For all major releases, Mambo 4.5.3 (which was never released as such), Joomla 1.5, and now Joomla 1.6 there was a lot of trouble with the release dates. Part of this due to the difficulties of working with the old 1.0 code. .... Questions like: are the idea of distributions (Molajo, Nooku) going to work? Is Joomla going to focus on the framework alone? .....
Strange you should say that http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?p ... 1#p2388551

As for the changes
Tonie wrote:...The current structure didn't work, so changes have to be made. ..
If the structure didn't work then why release it as stable ?

What is going on that we are not being told ?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Tonie » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:36 pm

Problem is not the 'stable' label, but the process before going to stable. Having a time of eight monts of betas and kiliing developers who are working way too much to get a release out of the door is not something that should be considered for future releases. The idea is that the incrementals of half year releases solves that problem. That cycle was designer somewhere in october/november when the PLT met, it has been there for a few months. http://developer.joomla.org/strategy.html

As for your other theories, I don't know. I work in the Joomla project because I like doing it.

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Razva » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:41 pm

Hello,

My website is working great with Joomla 1.5. Now, I need a straight answer for this question:

Will it be possible to migrate from 1.5 to 1.7 in January/February 2012?

Or I will be forced to upgrade from 1.5 and 1.6, and than from 1.6 to 1.7?

I want to know if I really *need* to upgrade right now, or should I stay at 1.5 till 1.7 is available. As far as I can understand 1.5 will be supported until 1.7, so it would be kinda logic to have a way to migrate on a decent manner. But I need a straight answer.

Thank you!

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Tonie » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:56 pm

The only straight answer I can give you is this (I'm not part of the PLT). http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leade ... uture.html

This mentions that it is both possible to go from both 1.5 and 1.6.

On a personal note, 1.5 and 1.8 will be the so-called long term releases. It should always be possible to migrate straight from one LTS to another.

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:09 pm

Tonie wrote:... 1.5 and 1.8 will be the so-called long term releases. It should always be possible to migrate straight from one LTS to another.
Now this is confusing

1.5 lts 1.6 and 1.7 short term with difficulty migrating from 1.5. Then 1.8 lts easy upgrade from 1.5 but what about upgrade from 1.7 ?

Seems like 1.8 is the real new version of 1.5 and that 1.6 and 1.7 are intermediate stages to experiment with different changes ?

I need a drink, this is confusing me.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Tonie » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:28 am

The idea is that people who want newer features can use the intermediate stages, for example if you really need the ACL in 1.6. For the people whose website is running fine, they can use the LTS versions and migrate to another LTS. This is the same principle Ubuntu is using, for example. Another example is that the development team doesn't have the manpower to support four of five Joomla versions at the same time.

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Webdongle » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:50 am

Tonie wrote:The idea is that people who want newer features can use the intermediate stages, for example if you really need the ACL in 1.6. ...
But the intermediate stages do not have the resources that 1.5 has. They lack the amount of extensions and Templates. This makes them a poor alternative does it not ?
Tonie wrote:... For the people whose website is running fine, they can use the LTS versions and migrate to another LTS. This is the same principle Ubuntu is using, ...
As far as I am aware Ubuntu updates are a smooth Transition and update automatically without the need to look for different modules/templates for each upgrade. Totaly different from a users point of view.
Tonie wrote:.... Another example is that the development team doesn't have the manpower to support four of five Joomla versions at the same time.
So why make more than one version ? Why not just decide one version and update that one ? Then users can just upgrade like before without having to chop and change each time a new version comes out. At the risk of sounding like a Vulcun, this is all illogical.

It seems like there is 'office politics' causing the mismatch of versions and not the ease of developing.

This is not a dig at anyone, I am grateful for all the work put in so we can use a free product. It's just I can't understand the logic of chopping and changing versions.

Am I the only one who can't see the logic or are other struggling as well ?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by kurchania » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:39 pm

hi Tonie,
Meanwhile do you know the cost of subscription that company charge?
they told us to have limited access to specific component update period.even right now i am unable to update my existing system to joomla 1.6 due to this limitation.and wow joomla 1.7 is in market in just say 6 month make thing more and more tough.
meanwhile you also know the bugs of jupgrade.
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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by free-rebel » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:01 pm

uuuuf, so now I m completely lost :(
It seems to be really difficult .... so ... I waited for Joomla 1.6 and did not want build something with 1.5 and it s seems like good decision, that I see how hard is migrade ... not possible update ...
But probably after few months I will stay infront the same situation ... Joomla 1.7 will come .... and nobody know how it will be with update ... there is one document - strategy, but there is nothing, there is one example ... :d
Maybe its good to start going to church :pop bc. only God can know, what will be with Joomla this year :D
I m Rebel ...

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Tonie » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:01 pm

@kurchania. Are you talking of the subscription of extensions? This is between customers and extensions developers. It doesn't matter in which timeframe Joomla has a major new version, what you are describing does not go away.

I know of Jupgrade, should put it in the FAQ as well. I personally don't recommend people to migrate to 1.6 at the moment, and people are probably better off to wait until 1.7 or even 1.8 if your website is running properly.

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Tonie » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:02 pm

@free-rebel. To predict Joomla development, you indeed need a very good crystal ball.

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Tonie » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:18 pm

Your questions are all dealing with things that are unknown at the moment, so take all this with a grain of salt since nobody will know what the future will be.
Webdongle wrote:But the intermediate stages do not have the resources that 1.5 has. They lack the amount of extensions and Templates. This makes them a poor alternative does it not ?
There is three years between 1.5 and 1.6, which is very good for people that want a stable website that has long support. In the new situation there would be a middle ground where people can build sites for features that need at that moment. It does make the choice when installing a new website harder.
Webdongle wrote: As far as I am aware Ubuntu updates are a smooth Transition and update automatically without the need to look for different modules/templates for each upgrade. Totaly different from a users point of view.
In Ubuntu, all available packages are maintained so upgrading is indeed simpler for end users with the 'dist-upgrade' command. One of the problems of Ubuntu is that their LTS version do not get new versions of software as easily as the later versions (for browsers, for example).

At the moment we do not know how the upgrade support will be when going to 1.7. All we have is one blog post that it is going to be built.
Webdongle wrote:So why make more than one version ? Why not just decide one version and update that one ? Then users can just upgrade like before without having to chop and change each time a new version comes out. At the risk of sounding like a Vulcun, this is all illogical.
It depends on how all will be handled if it's illogical or not. This will depend on the easyness of upgrading, the stability of the Joomla code used by 3rd party developers, what new features will be adopted, etc.
Webdongle wrote:It seems like there is 'office politics' causing the mismatch of versions and not the ease of developing.
Since the existence of Joomla, and before that Mambo, there has never been any ease of developing/predictability/planning, etc. Will the new situation work? Nobody knows. If there is one thing that I learnt when working on Joomla is that if something does not work, you try something else and see if that works. One thing I would really wish, is that somebody from the PLT or a new person would act like a community manager and handle communication to users, 3rd party developers, answering questions, etc. Right now, there are just too many questions.

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by free-rebel » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:27 pm

exactly Tonie, I read here on forum too many questions and also too many answers ...
nobody holding course ... sometimes its better worste way, but you know that way before ... so you can prepare for that ... now its really mix, know user dont know what is going on if you read this forum every day, and a lot of users dont have time for reading forum, reading documentation ... they do something, what tommorow can put to trash ;)
I m Rebel ...

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Webdongle » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:32 pm

Tonie wrote:... To predict Joomla development, you indeed need a very good crystal ball.
Tonie wrote:Your questions are all dealing with things that are unknown at the moment, so take all this with a grain of salt since nobody will know what the future will be.

.....

There is three years between 1.5 and 1.6, which is very good for people that want a stable website that has long support. In the new situation there would be a middle ground where people can build sites for features that need at that moment. It does make the choice when installing a new website harder.

.........

At the moment we do not know how the upgrade support will be when going to 1.7. All we have is one blog post that it is going to be built.

.........

Since the existence of Joomla, and before that Mambo, there has never been any ease of developing/predictability/planning, etc. Will the new situation work? Nobody knows. If there is one thing that I learnt when working on Joomla is that if something does not work, you try something else and see if that works. One thing I would really wish, is that somebody from the PLT or a new person would act like a community manager and handle communication to users, 3rd party developers, answering questions, etc. Right now, there are just too many questions.
These are the things that I find concerning and feel may put people off Joomla. The uncertainty and the difference between the versions could end up crippling Joomla. I doubt many developers will develop extensions for 1.6 because it is a lot of effort for a short life time.

Potential cms users may veer away from Joomla because they are not sure which version to install. Personal opinion is that bringing out 1.6 was possibly a mistake because it is totally different with a short life span.

It is possible that 1.6/1.7 may be developed into an LTS and run with 1.5/1.8 similar to 1.0 is to 1.5 now. That may prove a strength one version with the flexibility of 3rd party extensions and one containing a fixed structure developed by professional developers.

I have seen for some time the two schools of thought flexibility .v. modules as part of the core. Perhaps the developers are trying to address that issue. Perhaps another crystal ball will see something different ? Lets hope that all the hard work of the developers does not go by the wayside because of all the uncertainty.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by free-rebel » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:52 pm

I dont understand why joomla team want to support more version of joomla than one.
Why is not new version only the one which is support and always make possibility to update, not upgrade migrate, but update ...
Now we have three section of forum 1.0 , 1.5, 1.6 and it is not only forum's section, it is developers and much more ....
If I m now developer, probably I will do nothing, bc. 1.5 will finish, its not good do something for 1.5.
for 1.6 the same, short time and what will be in 1.7 nobody know, so maybe if I m developer I choose another cms than joomla :(
I think, if all people from community what now support 1.0 and 1.5 will support 1.6 then everyone will support 1.7 they can concentrate more to one product, and it will much easier to put also core update ''buton'' ;)
But for sure, joomla team can not do it, bc. you are now maybe in 4 group, one 1.0, second 1.5, third, 1.6 and fourth group develop 1.7 ... unbelieveble how can be something so complicated :pop

btw. a lot of new users will leave from joomla, bc. if I come now first to joomla I will try 1.6, then I search for component, download it and almost everything will be not compatible ... so I if I come today, tommorow I trie drupal ...
maybe after few days I will come again here, then I find, that I need to search 1.6 native extension so I will try again, then I found almost nothing there, so again next day finish on drupal site ....

Hey do something or change business :D
I m Rebel ...

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by pooja_cs » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:58 pm

Hello all,

I tried to migrate my website from Joomla 1.0.15 to Joomla 1.5 using migrator1.5, but I am getting errors, it says the depreciated line on some file, can someone please help to solve my migration problem, and give me the exact way to migrate my web site?

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by free-rebel » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:00 am

pooja_cs wrote:Hello all,

I tried to migrate my website from Joomla 1.0.15 to Joomla 1.5 using migrator1.5, but I am getting errors, it says the depreciated line on some file, can someone please help to solve my migration problem, and give me the exact way to migrate my web site?
heh its better to post this on 1.5 forum ... anyways good time for migrate your site to 1.5 :D
I m Rebel ...

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Tonie » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:33 am

@pooja_cs. Post in the Joomla 1.5 migration forum please

@free-rebel. Joomla 1.0 hasn't been supported since july 2009. The reason those forums are still there is because a lot of people are still using Joomla 1.0.

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by kurchania » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:38 am

hi Tonie,
I know of Jupgrade, should put it in the FAQ as well. I personally don't recommend people to migrate to 1.6 at the moment, and people are probably better off to wait until 1.7 or even 1.8 if your website is running properly.
nice to listen that from joomla global moderator
@kurchania. Are you talking of the subscription of extensions? This is between customers and extensions developers. It doesn't matter in which timeframe Joomla has a major new version, what you are describing does not go away.
its my hurdles i accept about subscription. but you just think once my situation.
my one component has ioncube encoding.its working good in joomla 1.5.
now client told me to work on j1.6 and my subscription is over.so definitely that component will be waste for me now.
Go one with 1.6,1.7 ,1.8,1.9 but remember one of the piller of success of joomla 1.5 is its legacy plugin support to 1.0.
just see the problem of boss you will get what i want to tell you
b0ss wrote:i did the process described and the result is basically a clean install. My mods, components, plugins and templates are gone. All that's left are the users. The K2 articles, the thousand or so Kunena posts are gone.
What step did i miss? Do i have to lose all that data to gain ACLs? HELP!
i've made back ups so i haven't lost anything but time and faith.
its not only about migrating joomla.its migrating whole bunch of component from one system to newer system.

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Aniy » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:02 pm

OK i'm lost a bit in this discussion so i'm sorry if i ask something that was explaned :D
i have a small 1.5 site, i don't want to migrate so a choose a clean install of 1.6 {like i said, it's a small site, no problem to insert the old articles etc.} but the problem i have are the extensions i use.
OK i understand that today there is no migration of components from 1.5 to 1.6 but will there be this... "feature" in the future releases? (1.6 to 1.7/8) that is the main question a wanted to ask and i think that is also a big problem for manny users

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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by Tonie » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:15 pm


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Re: Joomla 1.6 upgrading FAQ - Discussion

Post by margjet » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:10 pm

Hi all,

First of all I want to thank all the developers for all the hard work they put in the new version of Joomla.

I have some comments too... I am working for a webdesign agency and we use Joomla 1.5 extensively for sites for our customers. With the migrating issues mentioned in a lot of posts, I don't think we can safely upgrade all our Joomla sites to the new version. We use a lot of extensions in our sites and bought some extensions for a couple of sites too. Those extensions can't be downloaded again, since the licence to download is only valid for one year and that is gone now.

The way of upgrading which is used in Joomla is very bad for all webdesign agencies who use Joomla. Because it is not possible to upgrade easily, we will have to upgrade all sites manually, which will cost us a lot of time and money. This money we cannot bill to our clients, what will they say :( ... They won't understand there is so much work in one upgrade. In fact, we probably would have to do a complete rebuild for some sites we build (sites with a lot of content and joomfish etc).

So this will not work for us. And we will probably continue working with another CMS we already use and stop using Joomla :'( .

I loved working with Joomla, but this just makes it too difficult. Too bad... :(

I hope you can change the way to upgrade so that extensions will continue to work and the site is easier to upgrade. If that would be the case, it would be easier to keep on using Joomla for agencies like ours.
Otherwise a webdesign agency cannot choose for something like Joomla. It will cost too much money to charge our clients for just a (in their eyes) "simple" upgrade.


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