Joomla influencer marketing team?

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darb
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Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by darb » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:39 am

As Josh here asked viewtopic.php?f=699&t=947857 I dont think he made it and Joomla lost some influence power.

I see the structure of the Marketing of Joomla and wonder if there is any Influencer team that have some strategy and working procedure to proactively marketing Joomla 4 ? Is there any marketing plan for Joomla to be seen anywhere? Or is it secret? :D

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by deleted user » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:42 pm

You should know better than anyone that Joomla doesn't really care about marketing itself outside of its existing community. Therefore, this entire conversation is a moot point at best and something to laugh sadly about at worst.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by brian » Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:39 pm

Completely unfair comment - it's just that they don't share what they're doing
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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by Ace864 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:11 am

Maybe there is no influence team, neither marketing strategy

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by darb » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:43 am

Ace864 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:11 am
Maybe there is no influence team, neither marketing strategy
Completely unfair comment - it's just that they don't share what they're doing
Nope its secret. :D

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by jonBuckner1 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:21 pm

Haha

Seems really positive :)

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by darb » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:37 am

I think a first strategic analysis would be fine to do and then you see what is alla about in proactive marketing in different channels, web sites and marketing activity. Why, how, what, who, where, when...is any action planned and done?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You will see where WP is strong and what they doing that give results.

One metrix comparision, WP have so many other sites both locally and for learning WP etc

Joomla
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/joomla.org

WP
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wordpress.org

Do the analysis and think.

It would be nice to know and discuss what Joomla and its marketing groups are doing to make any effect for this measures and how Joomla follow up to improve this.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by waarnemer » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:07 am

Why do we keep comparing to WP?

IMHO Joomla! marketing should target companies, enterprises, groups, organisations, ngo's...

Any that have more than one people (users) that take care of maintenance and content in different roles (groups/access levels)

Also address the owners of a site.. that is not developers and maintainers.. owners are the ones that pay the bills... (and salaries of their people)

Get the "benefits and features" block on top instead of "download, use and learn"
Why Joomla! is next......... Explain that J! can fit an organization workflow. Skip the "hundreds"of developers".

Put the site owners is the front seat... developers in the back.
Listen to owners... learn from owners.. they have their business workflows.. they are the ones that are right.. developers should build to business needs.

Business needs is not being the most downloaded.. It is being the one that fits in or can be adapted to the requirements.


But stop comparing. It is of no use.... we can have our own market.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by darb » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:37 am

@ waarnemer I have the same exact 100% thoughts as you, the focus should be on the different type of site owners and what’s trigger them to choose Joomla as their preferred platform. Joomla people listening to this it would benefit Joomla long term.

The comparision is just a benchmark for marketing & pr effects so you can see how well you are doing and what you can do better.

Example analytics that can be interpreted.

If you see that you have 0% of visits coming from [youtube] and WP have 8% then you know you are doing something wrong on the channel [youtube] and take action to d o something on [youtube] and what’s going on there. For exampl you can search for comparison of Joomla, wp and drupal there and you have lots of biased "tests" where Joomla have no active strategy to act upon these misconception what Joomla is or not. And this affect people’s perception of what Joomla is in comparison to ... etc

Measures now in Alexa joomla.org so you see how important [youtube] is and that people return to [youtube] ( 1.84% [youtube].com) after they have visit joomla.org. So while Google is people know what they searching for [youtube] is where people get info, judgment and influence of Joomla brand name, ie Joomla image of a web building tool.

Site Flow Past 60 Days Visited just before

35.6% google.com

1.38% facebook.com

1.24% [youtube].com

1.06% github.com

0.91% joomboost.com

Visited right after

20.8% google.com

1.84% [youtube].com

1.56% facebook.com

1.37% github.com

0.87% joomboost.com

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by waarnemer » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:54 am

What I learned in (digital) marketing is
  • define your target group.
  • not measure against the others but measure what happens after a change made by yourself.
  • by doing the exact same thing as the competition you will never stand out.
  • if your product is bad, you can only win the battle using tons of money
  • if your product is super, you can win without the money..... but your userbase is marking it "super", not you.
  • have business empathy. listen and try to understand what your market needs.
  • satisfaction cannot be measured. results can.
A few things are going wrong with j!...
we are barking up the wrong trees (should select our audience beyond the developers)
LISTEN to the market. good example is the j!4 template discussion where it seems devs think their idea is brilliant while those that need to work with it don't... NOT listening!

It is a common mistake.. I wash my hands... when I am cooking same happens.. my meal is brilliant, the family runs of to the big M.
Big M enjoys tons of visitors on [youtube]... I am left with one view...... me.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by Webdongle » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:08 am

waarnemer wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:07 am
Why do we keep comparing to WP?...
Perhaps because wp is more popular and some Joomla users would like to see Joomla more popular
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by JoeJoomla » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:26 pm

If you are interested in what is going on in Marketing and want to volunteer why not apply to the Marketing Team? They would welcome your help, knowledge, experience, positivity and enthusiasm.

Here's a link for you: https://volunteers.joomla.org/teams/marketing

Best regards,
Joe Sonne
JoeJoomla.com | JoeSonne.com | The Joe Sonne Group | Former Board Member of Open Source Matters, Inc. | Capital Committee Member

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by waarnemer » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:41 pm

@webdongle....... Me too, but still, I rather be popular with the paying bunch even when there is just a few of them...

Martini wants to be the most popular alcoholic drink in the world, but they too know the will not beat the beers in popularity... so they aim at the ones drinking vermouth and cocktails....

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by waarnemer » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:44 pm

@JoeJoomla, love too but currently my lack of available time forbids...

so they may consider all this free advice.....

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by Webdongle » Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:43 pm

waarnemer wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:44 pm
... love too but currently my lack of available time forbids...

so they may consider all this free advice.....
This is a story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.

Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody’s job. Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realised that Everybody wouldn’t do it.

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by waarnemer » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:32 pm

@webdongle, soon as you can buy me more than the 24 available hours a day I am in..

also..... I am not angry, nor blaming anyone, just noticing all are but humans... even developers and marketeers..

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by toivo » Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:43 pm

Toivo Talikka, Global Moderator

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by Webdongle » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:03 pm

What does that mean? Does that mean that Google will have tracking code in Joomla like it tried before? I have a vague memory of someone trying to slip google tracking code in Joomla before. She kicked everyone (who complained about it) off the Joomla bug squad.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by darb » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:17 am

Webdongle wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:03 pm
What does that mean? Does that mean that Google will have tracking code in Joomla like it tried before? I have a vague memory of someone trying to slip google tracking code in Joomla before. She kicked everyone (who complained about it) off the Joomla bug squad.
Agree with you Webdongle that this is a huge decision to make for any person/work task alone for Joomla community and future. This should not be a decision where someone does it for their own benefit.

Who took this decision and why? Where is the transparency discussion for this important decision? I don’t understand this decision, strategy and how you thinking?? Whats the outcome effect long-term?

I don’t see/understand the economical Joomla benefit explained for Joomla community.

The risk is that Joomla lose more different users types on many levels that make this ecosystem going. Google have many competing apps and projects on many levels that move people away from projects like Joomla, one example like "low-code and no-code" platforms applications but maybe we don’t need Joomla and any Joomla coders anymore? https://www.forbes.com/sites/googleclou ... usinesses/

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by Jaydot » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:34 am

toivo wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:43 pm
Breaking news...
Oh no!
I spend an awful lot of time fighting off tracking cookies, so this really scares me...
The fact that an opinion is widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.
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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by Webdongle » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:10 pm

How about

https://www.drupal.org/association/supp ... r-and-more
The Drupal Association is happy to announce a new sponsorship from Google. Google has taken critical steps to foster a thriving web ecosystem by partnering with open-source content management systems and ecommerce platforms, and learning from and supporting their communities.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by darb » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:23 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:10 pm
How about

https://www.drupal.org/association/supp ... r-and-more
The Drupal Association is happy to announce a new sponsorship from Google. Google has taken critical steps to foster a thriving web ecosystem by partnering with open-source content management systems and ecommerce platforms, and learning from and supporting their communities.
Yes I would like our marketing team share for all of us, without secret, share different media kit https://www.drupal.org/about/media-kit/ is that so difficult to do and plan so we all together can help marketing Joomla? Don't understand why this is secret...

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team: a song-and-dance about nothing!

Post by sozzled » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:19 pm

I don't know why we have these kinds of discussions on the forum. Marketing for J! is in the hands of the Marketing & Communications Department of OSM whose director is elected by popular vote and team members are appointed by invitation. There's nothing secret about that. If people want to provide input to this area they can go here and click the contact form. The Marketing Team does not use the forum.

darb wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:17 am
Who took this decision and why?
Although it may be difficult to find who, specifically, partook in the decision-making (and that's probably a question that could be addressed to the President of OSM), the "why" of the matter is summed up in the announcement.

You can't please some people, can you? On the one hand, one of this forum's most vocal advocates for better marketing has been calling for "Joomla!" to be more entrepreneurial via social media and business partnerships. That same person now complains when a new partnership is formed between J! and one of the powerhouse businesses on the planet! I don't think it's fair to publicly criticise "Joomla!" lacking entrepreneurship over which businesses it deals with, do you? If you don't like the choices made by OSM Board (or the Departments underneath it) then voice your concerns at the elections for Board/Department members.

The Marketing & Communications Department does not use this forum to engage with or debate its policy with the community. This entire forum category is a left-over from when the forum was used as one of the main avenues for communication between Board/Department/Working Group members. Those days are gone. The Marketing & Communications Department uses GitHub and Glip; its discussions aren't secret but, I accept for the time being, they could be more open and transparent, perhaps.

If people are serious about offering their expertise, knowledge, understanding and skill in marketing then they can join the Marketing Team. Offering gratuitous advice on the forum is not a commitment to marketing.

How—good or badly—J! markets itself compared to how other open source projects market themselves is a pointless discussion about how the Marketing Team undertakes its activities. People can draw their own conclusions about how other open source projects market themselves and how J! markets itself. I have my own opinions on the matter but I prefer to keep my opinions to myself.

J! is popular. Does it matter how "popular" it is?
Webdongle wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:03 pm
Does [the announcement] mean ... Google will have tracking code in Joomla like it tried before?
This is how rumours start. The J! forum—or any technical user-driven forum, for that matter—is not a bible. Unfounded rumours or suspicions about what goes on behind-the-scenes, when they appear in black-and-white on a techical forum, have the effect of causing anxiety, doubt and fear. It's the old story of "I read it on the forum ..."

Jaydot wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:34 am
toivo wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:43 pm
Breaking news...
Oh no!
I spend an awful lot of time fighting off tracking cookies, so this really scares me ...
Who says? You must have read it on the forum, right? If you have concerns then contact the Marketing Team (use the contact form referred to earlier). Ask for a definitive statement from the team. Are people seriously thinking that the J! developers are going to sneak some "tracking code" into the next release of J!? C'mon, let's not panic, lose our heads, and worry for nothing. If you want to know what, when and how anything happens with J! development, get involved with GitHub. :)
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team: a song-and-dance about nothing!

Post by Webdongle » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:42 pm

sozzled wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:19 pm
... On the one hand, one of this forum's most vocal advocates for better marketing has been calling for "Joomla!" to be more entrepreneurial via social media and business partnerships. That same person now complains when a new partnership is formed between J! and one of the powerhouse businesses on the planet! ...
Incorrect. Nobody is advocating commercial partnerships then complaining when one is made.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?a better way of understanding

Post by darb » Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:55 am

@sozzled
I don't know why we have these kinds of discussions on the forum.
Yes bcs you don’t "know" doesn’t mean that others don't. It’s important to discuss Joomla future and we have always done that here where the majority of Joomla people lives and our voice is important. We are the users of Joomla and people that don't know what we discussing better stay out of this discussion.
The Marketing & Communications Department does not use this forum to engage with or debate its policy with the community.
yes this could be difficult to understand but that’s what I talk about is to use all of us Joomla community members jointly to have a chance to marketing Joomla voluntarily by some guidelines and material actions planned. Sorry you didn’t get that one too.
How—good or badly—J! markets itself compared to how other open source projects market themselves is a pointless discussion about how the Marketing Team undertakes its activities.
wrong again, that’s the only way we can judge measure and see how Joomla perform over time and how well things develop.
I have my own opinions on the matter but I prefer to keep my opinions to myself.
Well that’s exactly what you don’t do...

Please go back to the important analysis points of what we are discussing instead of other nonsense and hijacking this post I did.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by waarnemer » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:53 am

Interesting... But I don't fear... since any is open in the code for anyone to check... I can see some good coming from G as a sponsor.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by Webdongle » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:33 pm

So what exactly (in simple terms) does google gain from Joomla? Do they collect analytical data without the site owner being able to prevent it? What do google gain?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by sozzled » Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:31 pm

Firstly, I know I'm wasting my time with this discussion because people already have their prejudiced conspiracy theories—and they can't let go of them—and it doesn't matter what I think because I'm only going to be told (again) that my thoughts/opinions are "incorrect" or that I'm hijacking this discussion. How thin-skinned people are, eh? They're worried I'm a forum hijacker! That's probably one of the most absurd insults I've ever read about me.

I didn't start this discussion. The discussion started half a year ago. What has it achieved? Has anyone (who has the ability to influence anything) done anything? I am only offering my opinions about some of what I've read. To cut to the core of the matter, though, the discussion is pretty much a waste of time: it's less than a bus-load of people having chat in an obscure corner in the internet. It won't make a skerrick of difference what is written here, on this forum, in terms of altering the course of J! marketing.

Secondly, I agree with everything that @feedback101 wrote and everything between the lines that @feedback101 didn't explicitly write. 8)

Thirdly, who says Google or any other enterprise doesn't already collect "analytic" information from anything that appears on the internet today? Organisations have been tracking us for years. Are we so naïve as to imagine that our internet activities and personal freedoms will be subjected to further scrutiny because of some "deal" announced in a media briefing? We basically abrogated our personal freedom when we signed up to use the internet! C'mon, settle down! :laugh:

I really don't give a damn what Google has to gain from "the partnership" recently announced by the J! Marketing Team. I'm only concerned with whether OSM (and its subsidiary departments) always act honestly and transparently in the interests of the community and that all members of the community uphold the J! Code of Conduct. If you don't like how OSM or its subsidiaries are performing there are more direct mechanisms to voice your objections.
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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by darb » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:28 am

So what is left for Joomlers to do after Google suits of competing products (apps) or sites? Google workspace, sites, search..etc https://workspace.google.com/intl/en/

Who need Joomla or any of its extensions after Google have taking over the world? already..with Google App script you don't need any developers to build what you need...

Did Joomla get one million in keyword search ad support or what's the benefit for Joomla with this "deal?

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Re: Joomla influencer marketing team?

Post by pe7er » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:37 am

So it seems that this discussion shifted from Joomla losing some of its influence power in the CMS world, into Joomla teaming up with Google who has tremendous influence power on the whole internet.

GSOC
In the past Google has already sponsored Joomla via Google Summer of Code (GSOC). In GSOC students work on small projects within open source communities. Google benefits from that in multiple ways:
  • they might find new great candidates for jobs at Google,
  • it gives the company goodwill
  • and it helps with open source software development (some of which is also used by Google).
Joomla benefits from GSOC too:
  • we have had a lot of great students and some of them are still active as volunteers.
  • Some GSOC coding projects ended up in the Joomla CMS source code.
  • And we've got some exposure in the development / students world.
GAFAM
Personally I am not a fan of the big 5 tech companies Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft (GAFAM). I don't like the power those five American companies have on the world, how they influence our daily life, how dependent they make us and that they sometimes use its users as money making products. However, I sometimes use products and services from those companies, just because they are so convenient and reliable or when there's no good alternative. If possible I use open source alternatives.

Open Source
I love open source software because it gives you freedom and knowledge. Privacy is important to me because I want to keep control over my own personal data. I don't use Apple OSX nor Microsoft Windows. Instead Linux (Debian and Ubuntu) is my weapon of choice. As long as I can use my favourite open source software (Linux, PHP, Nginx, Apache, MySQL, MariaDB, Joomla) without being dependent on GAFAM, I don't have problems with them sponsoring Joomla.

Cooperation
Organisations that have shared goals can cooperate in achieving those shared goals better. Actually, that's what Joomla is a project: The Joomla community consists of a lot of volunteers who can be competitors. Together they try to achieve their shared goals: improving Joomla CMS.

While I understand some of the negativity that I read in some of the posts, I am optimistic. Until proven otherwise I think that the cooperation of Joomla and Google can be beneficial to both organisations and its users.
Kind Regards,
Peter Martin, Global Moderator
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