"don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

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MarkRS
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"don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by MarkRS » Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:08 am

Can the message be removed that says "don't use this forum, use the Google group instead" at the top of the J4 coding forum please.

Not only are people ignoring it, and in fact currently posting the same message in both places, but in fact (imnvho) Google groups is a poor platform for this kind of thing (poor markup/display facilities), as well as not being part of Joomla infrastructure.
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by gws » Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:32 am

+1

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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by pe7er » Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:51 am

Thanks for your suggestion!
We've discussed it in the moderators team and removed that line.
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Peter Martin, Global Moderator
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by gws » Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:56 am

Thanks Peter.

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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by MarkRS » Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:40 pm

Thank you!
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by sozzled » Mon Nov 07, 2022 4:03 pm

Thanks, @MarkRS. I asked the forum moderation group to remove all references to Google Groups from both the J! 4.x and J! 3.x forums a over a year ago, for the same reasons you wrote, and my request was rejected without any team discussion. At least the “don’t use this forum” phrase has been removed as a result of your request.

I agree about the undesirability about using Google Groups as a de facto support mechanism; there are better resources for people who want to explore the intricate nuts-and-bolts stuff of web craft. Further, references to external platforms such as Google Groups are invitations for here-one-day-gone-the-next trouble. Once upon a time, there were reputable references in this forum to Sourceforge and Google Plus, remember them? Who knows, where such references may take people?

So, while the removal of “don’t use this forum” is a welcome change, the remaining text in the descriptions of the two coding forums I’ve mentioned—if you poke around, there are similar references in the archived J! 1.5 and J! 2.5 coding forums—should also be deleted in my opinion. I don’t mind if there’s a sticky in each of those forums that suggests other alternatives, e.g. Joomla Stackideas, Google Groups, GitHub, etc., but I don’t think the in-your-face forum description is the place where that kind of information should be displayed.

In my opinion, while the initial response from the forum moderation team is an improvement, the overall issue not satisfactorily concluded.
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by pe7er » Mon Nov 07, 2022 4:31 pm

@sozzled The topic was the "'don't use this forum' message" which has been solved.
Please do not try to hijack this topic. Thanks.
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by sozzled » Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:01 pm

I am not hijacking (or attempting to hijack) the topic. I am saying that the discussion has not been solved/resolved or satisfactorily concluded. I would ask that you respect my comments in the same manner as I respect other on-topic responses to these discussions. The point that @MarkRS made was about the unsuitability of Google Groups; I agree with that observation. That's entirely on-topic and relevant to this discussion. :)
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by MarkRS » Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:04 pm

To return to my initial point, thanks to the moderators team for actioning this, particularly so swiftly.

I notice that the same notice is the subtitle of the forum in the index list.

Could that be changed too, please?
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by pe7er » Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:17 pm

Ok, thanks.
I've changed
For Joomla! 4.x Coding related discussions, please use: http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-general
to
For Joomla! 4.x Coding related discussions, you could also use: http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-general
and for the J3 Coding forum too.
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by MarkRS » Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:55 pm

I know I'm starting to sound a bit like a stuck record on this issue, but here goes anyway :'(

I've just paid attention to the header on the Google Groups forum for coding, and it says
This is the main discussion list for software developers working on Joomla! extensions <etc>
Since we seem to have agreed here that that isn't the case, could that text be changed too, please? 8)
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by pe7er » Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:38 pm

MarkRS wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:55 pm
Since we seem to have agreed here that that isn't the case, could that text be changed too, please? 8)
Sorry, you have to ask someone else. I don't have admin rights at Joomla! General Development so I cannot change that.
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by MarkRS » Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:23 pm

pe7er wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:38 pm
Sorry, you have to ask someone else. I don't have admin rights at Joomla! General Development so I cannot change that.
Thanks for that.

But who? And how?
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by pe7er » Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:17 pm

MarkRS wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:23 pm
But who? And how?
Someone from: https://groups.google.com/g/joomla-dev-general/about
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by sozzled » Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:43 pm

I completely agree with the points made by @MarkRS in this discussion.

There are several forum-like websites where people can obtain help with Joomla coding issues. The Google Groups site is one but it is definitely not the main one in spite of the exaggerated claim made by its owner(s). It appears, at first glance (or, perhaps, it's just my opinion), that the Google Groups site is not the kind of Q & A site that people would be attracted to. The good thing about categorised forums (like this one) is that people can find topics of interest fairly quickly. The one Google Group—referenced on each of the J! n forums here—is a pot-pourri about anything and everything.

For example, https://groups.google.com/g/joomla-dev-general includes discussions about OSM Board, Joomla Documentation, JED "issues" ... as I say, anything and everything.

Aside from this forum, the two sites that I use the most often areAlso relevant to the discussion we are having is this one (over ten years ago): viewtopic.php?t=700240

The forums I've just mentioned are extremely well moderated and well-indexed by the major search engines. These forums are targeted towards software developers who are looking for technical help with PHP, Javascript, CSS, XML, etc. So, if someone is looking for "how to do something in J!" StackExchange and StackOverflow usually rate high. I think the point we're trying to make is that this forum should neither endorse nor prejudice any particular "coding help" forum. The Joomla Forum™ is what it is (and it's quite good for its purposes) but, in my opinion, Google Groups is a probably not the most effective use of one's time.

https://groups.google.com/g/joomla-dev-general is not specifically a coding forum. I don't have anything against Google Groups; I just think that it's unnecessary and unhelpful to mention it as a some kind of guidance for users of this forum.

I would suggest that the coding forums here needn't mention external-to-J! websites or, if they do, then create a sticky post and list a broader range. 8)
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by MarkRS » Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:51 pm

pe7er wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:17 pm
Someone from: https://groups.google.com/g/joomla-dev-general/about
Ah, yes, that would've been a sensible place to look first. :eek:

Sorry 'bout that... and thanks again. :-[
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Re: "don't use this forum" message, J4 coding forum

Post by pe7er » Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:10 am

No prob. You're welcome.
Kind Regards,
Peter Martin, Global Moderator
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