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Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:20 pm
by mcsmom
There was a thread on the CMS
development list about the idea of creating a site to highlight Joomla design, kind of along the lines of CSS Zen Garden. Right away I started getting ideas and I'm wondering if there are some people who would like to talk about it here, since development lists are not the appropriate place.

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:11 pm
by severdia
I think this is a great idea and I think it should either be part of the new dev site or the existing showcase. Having it on the new dev site might expose HTML/CSS folks to the benefits of deeper Joomla development.

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:49 pm
by Loudog121
Wanted to welcome everyone who is joining us from the Dev Post.

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:30 pm
by pixelpraise
You can count us in for an entry :)

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:33 pm
by mcsmom
:)
I think this is such a cool idea.

Here are some notes I made based on css zen garden, template contest experience and watching the teams manage the directory sites.


Joomla! Garden


Concept: a site that lets people see and show off good Joomla design and learn good Joomla! design practices.

Viewers can come and see different designs, learn from them, and download the templates.

The site: Standard sample data installation plus a content item explaining the site and a module or something for changing the template and a link to where the templates can be downloaded (probably a project on joomlacode).

Serious designers only.
Make a team that will be in charge of reviewing.

Designers not allowed to change the index.php file or to add positions.

Can change:
CSS
Images
Add javascript?
Overrides?

Other rules?

Templates from individuals only, but they can have a bio statement that says what firm they work for.

They would submit to a team who would make decisions about what would be accepted (like css zen garden).

All code GPL and images CC SA so people can use but must give credit.


I think "where" it goes is a small issue compared with finding a team willing to work on managing. It's the web, it can be part of dev, part of show case, part of community. I do think we need a place for design talk but that's a different issue.

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:53 am
by mark_up
Love it and will definitely submit an entry.
mcsmom wrote: Designers not allowed to change the index.php file or to add positions.

Can change:
CSS
Images
Add javascript?
Overrides?
IMO overrides shouldn't be allowed.

The HTML output needs to be exactly the same for all entries for this to be worthwhile... there is no limit to what one can do if you bring overrides into the picture and you'll end up with output that is no longer "truly Joomla".

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:47 pm
by mcsmom
Well that's what I was wondering about overrides. On the one hand, they show the incredible flexibility of the Joomla! CMS, which with my marketing hat on I really want to show off. On the other hand the whole CMS garden set up really says "no html" and forces people to show their stuff within pretty strict limitations. I also find that really attractive, because you can say "hey, look what you can do with css (and maybe some javascript)."

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:19 pm
by pixelpraise
I'd say to steer away from overrides and javascript and concentrate on css. It'll be much easier to maintain

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:09 pm
by mcsmom
So Css and images only? That seems really straightforward to manage. I'm definitely for the KISS approach.

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:02 am
by pixelpraise
Then it would really be like the css Zen Garden
I'm a fan of simple too :)

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:16 am
by aemiller
That would get my vote. I also like the KISS approach.

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:15 pm
by Duke3D
Pardon me for repeating something stated in the Dev thread, but I really do think it's important. While every contestant should be constrained to displaying the same HTML as the next contestant, some of the challenge and magic of a Joomla Garden as opposed to a zen garden is that the content should be dynamic, meaning we attach this to another part of the Joomla.org site or republish some feeds as the source of displayed data. Every template is stress tested equally by whatever gets published to the site that day. The ability to accommodate elastic content is one of the virtues that will set this showcase apart from zen garden and demonstrate that dynamic content can be presented with 'out-of-the-box' (literally) aesthetics.

The starting content for all contestants should be that at any point in time they are displaying identical, best practices quality semantic markup and dynamic content as rendered by 1.6 core components and modules. Every page should be letter for letter identical when seen by a screen reader (CSS-off) and the content will have semantic class designations that allow the designer full flexibility with how to position and display it. (It is my hope that nothing is designated to appear on the 'left', it will be tagged to appear in branding, navpanels, sidepanels, search, login, breadcrumb and user1-n, wherever they might appear on the page in that design.)

The choice about javascript is tough. Many designers these days make use of frameworks for presentation enhancement and mootools is part of core. My opinion is that behaviour_mootools_more should be designated in the template so it's available to use or not use and that the jQuery library be available as well since it is predominantly a presentation tool and many contestants will want access to it. The designer can implement the library in no-conflicts mode and this can serve as a teaching/demo platform to demonstrate how Joomla is becoming framework agnostic on the frontend, as well as allow designers to work in the framework of choice and not have to forgo their favorite ease-in animation effect or magic <li> based menu morphs. Might need to draw a line concerning JS-injected content being added to the DOM and AJAX inserts unless that is module/component content that anyone can display and all they are doing is controlling how it streams to the page. If it represents making a change to index.html, then I think it should be excluded. Perhaps a solution is to identify a couple RSS feeds or related component content that are permitted to be tapped as a source of supplemental content that can be tickered, slid or ajaxified into the displayed content.

The area where the core-only concept breaks down is in images. Core doesn't provide image/gallery extensions for logical reasons (setting aside banners and similar). Choosing just one to include in the contest demo content is problematic, yet part of what will make these garden sites really show off Joomla well is if they render dynamic image content as well as text (maybe a frequently updated Flikr feed of nature and wildlife images). Whether the contestant chooses to package as slimbox popups or slideshows, a source of thumbs and images should be available for contestants to display as links to albums (the albums themselves would not be part of the demo site). I think some gallery extension's thumbnail (and hover) output (img elements) should be rendered to a module position for creative display and styling just to make the content as visually interesting as the page designs that is framing them.

There should be nothing wrong with designers picking and choosing from the content made available to him/her and deciding to display:none or turn off some parts of the content that doesn't fit their design or enable extra features. Perhaps the rules should specify the 'must-display' content like component and certain modules, but also state that there is no harm and may instead be virtue in not showing the content contained in all 14 user modules, 3 feeds and 2 photo streams. Not every design should be a "featured mashup portal", some whitespace could lead to a more zen-like result. In fact, I suspect some user modules could be alter-egos of each other, differing by their chrome and settings (list of titles v. intro text). Thinking out loud, perhaps the variability we should allow is to have a selection of pre-specified module content available for styling and that the designers may choose to publish/unpublish certain pre-configured modules by omitting positions from being rendered by the template's index.html (prebuilt list of parameter settings they can toggle on or off to control position rendering for their template's instance?) as opposed to resorting to heavier pages and display:none which tends to drive people to meet the challenge of styling everything in the rendered html and produce lots of heavy cluttered pages which will not put Joomla's best foot forward. This will be a tough area to settle upon.

Bottom line, I think the head of index.html should be standardized to load consolidated css and js from core modules and the libraries, followed by contestant123.css, (optional contestant123_ie.css and/or 123_ie7.css with conditional loading), contestant123.js, and contestant123.xml (a default params setting file that controls which of the optional module positions/feeds/streams to render or not render.) It's a tough balance to keep this simple and still show off the dynamic power of Joomla with truly dynamic css styling that is applied to constantly updated content. (perhaps a randomizer in the content renderer - every refresh pulls a differently filtered or sequenced set of articles that still fit the category/module's purpose.)

Sorry for the novel!

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:15 pm
by mcsmom
Well there are feeds in sample data so there would be some element of dynamic content.

I don't think it makes sense to give people access to the db as part of this, I think it is one common install. Now could someone use the magic of css to make some content disappear? Certainly :)

I'd vote for start simple and see how it goes. We can always up the ante later or have a special MooTools event etc.

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:08 pm
by mcsmom
Ok, do we have a group that would like to start a google document or something similar and write up a plan to show the people who run the sites?

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:19 pm
by Loudog121
Sorry for the delayed respone - I have been traveling - I can write something up this week via Google that will outline what we are purposing and what we are asking the participates for. I vote we keep it simple this first round and keep adding to it as we go along. This will also allow us to kick out any of the bugs.

I will post the link here when it's ready to go.

~ Lou

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:24 am
by mustaq-ahmed
Any new developments here :)

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:05 am
by mcsmom
Well funny you should ask ... there is a Zen Garden project as part of JSOP and we're looking for students and mentors who are interested in working on implementing it.

http://developer.joomla.org/joomla-stud ... -jsop.html

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:59 am
by mustaq-ahmed
Well funny you should ask ... there is a Zen Garden project as part of JSOP and we're looking for students and mentors who are interested in working on implementing it.

Thanks mcsmom

I applied for a mentorship role JSOP Project Ideas Page - Joomla! Student Outreach Program | Google Groups .

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:18 am
by erick_alcala
Is this threat dead ?? .. and the project?

Re: Joomla! Garden (or something)

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:56 am
by mark_up
I erick_alcala,

Yup, I believe the project has been shelved for now. Hopefully we can revive it after Joomla 1.6 is released later in the year.

Cheers,
Mark