nikosdion wrote:Thank you for accepting my point about the code. Now can we please all stop shouting at each other and talk about the large pink elephant in the room? Why are you changing the license. It can't drive adoption, not at this stage where the features (not code quality, the code is robust) are not in par or anywhere near the competition. It seems that you are perfectly aware of that, otherwise you'd have told me to buzz off instead of directing me to the developers' mailing list. Sorry,but I see a cognitive disconnect here.
You are right to a point. Changing the license now is not a driver, but it is a removal of a future barrier. That said, was the alpha of your FOF package anything like the more mature version today? Did you not put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into it to make it work? Of course you did. Did YOU not change YOUR LICENSE to benefit the Joomla CMS? Afford us the same privilege to build a phoenix out of the ashes of the Joomla Platform.
nikosdion wrote:On a personal note: I am against the LGPL because the only people who benefit are those who are interested more about making money than offering powerful, customizable, reusable software.
I'm sorry you feel that way but having been involved in the wider PHP community for some time now, I just don't buy it. Case in point is Drupal asking Bootstrap to help them with a licensing issue. I have no data to prove it, but I'd wager there is more to gain from cooperation between Open Source providers than there is to lose on the off chance someone happens to use our code in a proprietary stack.
nikosdion wrote:I came to this community in 2004, ten years ago, because then Mambo was all about these core values.
And I am still the same person that pushed that fork button Nic.
nikosdion wrote:I stuck with Joomla! even before it's name was decided because you declared that Open Source Matters and you wrote that forum post eloquently declaring that it's about the people behind the code. Ten years later I see that this idealistic spirit has waned.
To be brutally honest that's because of this kind of thread telling me I should take my contribution values elsewhere - which I am very seriously considering doing.
nikosdion wrote: I am not saying that based on your writings, Andrew, but from the sum of replies coming from the Joomla Framework team. You continuously tell us that it's just a developer (code) issue, continuously implying a decision was taken and discounting the community at large, treating it as rowdy toddlers who are not entitled to an opinion. I am desperate at the decadence of the project's ethos which is why I stopped contributing in January and decided to abstain from any volunteer activity for the project any more.
Sorry to hear that.
nikosdion wrote:As for my assessment of JF in comparison to the established PHP frameworks out there it's all but arbitrary. You may not remember it, but I am a PHP developer. I was framework shopping two months ago for a mass distributed app. I'm sorry to say, but with the exception of Registry there was no other part of JF I found reasonable using without modification. I had to fork off a lot of it to make it perform suitably for this kind of environment. In the end of the day I ended up using a different session manager (Aura for PHP's Session package), my own application container, a modified Input package, my own MVC, a modified Database package (bug fixes for PostgreSQL, a better importer), my forked Uri package and so on. All the while I was seeing what other frameworks wee offering and I was really sad I didn't have the time to learn their ropes. I'm sure it would have spared me all the trouble I went through modifying and overriding the JF.
This is a great conversation for the Framework mailing list, but my personal opinion is people would rather see it not part of this project. So you may get your wish and it will simply disappear - problem solved.