Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizational

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rdeutz
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by rdeutz » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:58 pm

brian wrote:Unfortunately the structure team are only offering one proposal and the leadership teams are only being given the choice of voting yes or no to that proposal
We can also chose not to vote, wouldn't be the first time we change the plan
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by Webdongle » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:20 pm

But when the choice is yes or no then not voting is effectively a yes vote because it is one less no vote.
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https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by rdeutz » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:22 pm

Webdongle wrote:But when the choice is yes or no then not voting is effectively a yes vote because it is one less no vote.
You got me wrong, I meant doesn't vote at all on this proposal. I doesn't meant abstention from voting.
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by Jenny » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:48 pm

Have any revisions been made to the proposal based on feedback that has been given thus far?

Would it be possible to get the total number of people eligible to vote for this proposal and a full listing of who those people are? If people are "present" but "abstain" from voting how will that be counted?
March 24 - April 21: Public discussion and feedback from the community as a whole
April 21 - April 26: Structure Team to discuss feedback from the community, and if necessary make additional revisions to proposal.
April 26 - May 3: Leadership team members discuss the final proposal.
May 4 - May 11: Leadership team members vote on the proposed Joomla structure.*
May 12: Publish a blog with the results of vote and the next steps.**

* To have a quorum and to pass a counting vote it need at least 2/3rds of the total potential votes to pass a vote. To pass the proposal for a new structure & methodology a majority of 2/3rds of the given votes are needed.

** If the vote is yes to implement the new structure and methodology the transition plan will be activated. The current leadership members will act as the transitional leadership until the new elections have been held.
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by Webdongle » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:34 pm

Jenny wrote:... If people are "present" but "abstain" from voting how will that be counted?
...
10 people voting on Yes do it No don't do it
5 don't want to do it and one abstain from voting in protest ... result = 5 Yes votes and 4 No votes ... Yes wins.
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https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by sarahwatz » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:39 pm

Jenny wrote:Have any revisions been made to the proposal based on feedback that has been given thus far?
The Structure Team has a meeting tomorrow to discuss the feedback we got during this phase. The Structure Team has until April 26 to make revisions to the proposal based on the feedback (as it has been stated in the time line included below).

April 21 - April 26: Structure Team to discuss feedback from the community, and if necessary make additional revisions to proposal.

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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by sarahwatz » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:53 pm

Thanks Duke for your detailed feedback. I understand you have thought about the proposal a lot and even more since our presentation at JWC14. Thanks for sharing your concerns and giving a lot of concrete suggestions how you would like to see this to move forward.

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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by sarahwatz » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:11 pm

Jenny wrote:Would it be possible to get the total number of people eligible to vote for this proposal and a full listing of who those people are?
At JAB14 it was proposed that all members on the leadership team would be eligible to vote. And that is still the plan as you have seen in the blog post. The number and who could still change up until the day we start the vote. That is depending if any leadership team will "add" or "lose" a team member until that date.

You should be able to predict who will be eligible to vote on these pages. (Please keep in mind I don't know how current the listings are depending on if they have been updated to reflect recent changes.)
http://www.joomla.org/about-joomla/the- ... -team.html
http://opensourcematters.org/about/directors.html

A final list of eligible team members will be documented the day we announce the vote.

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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by masterchief » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:39 pm

brian wrote:Unfortunately the structure team are only offering one proposal and the leadership teams are only being given the choice of voting yes or no to that proposal
It doesn't matter how many alternatives are presented, [strike]you[/strike]people will still be grumpy if [strike]they[/strike]leadership don't vote for the one [strike]you[/strike]they want :P

Edit: changed from first person to third person form to make the original intent of the comment more clear.
Last edited by masterchief on Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by brian » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:44 pm

Lets avoid the personal comments shall we. Most people posting here are active contributors to joomla and have avoided any personal comments
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by masterchief » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:54 pm

sarahwatz wrote:The Structure Team has a meeting tomorrow to discuss the feedback we got during this phase. The Structure Team has until April 26 to make revisions to the proposal based on the feedback (as it has been stated in the time line included below).

April 21 - April 26: Structure Team to discuss feedback from the community, and if necessary make additional revisions to proposal.
Just out of interest, will the private feedback submissions be publicly summarised in any shape or form?
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by masterchief » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:01 pm

brian wrote:Lets avoid the personal comments shall we. Most people posting here are active contributors to joomla and have avoided any personal comments
Isn't *that* a personal comment :P Whatever the case, I don't see the relevance of your comment, nor do I think that just voting yes or no are the only options they have. And my comment is true for all people and seasons. I've lost count of the times when a decision is about to be made, some are unhappy and they immediately call for other options to be presented. I'm sure you remember the debacle about how we chose the name "Joomla" ;)
Last edited by masterchief on Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by tresan » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:43 am

The entire point of the form of this process was to make sure we got to a point where a vote will happen - and it doesnt just drown in the normal inaction.

The vote may be a no - and if so we have a clear decision and can start to plan based on that.

Let me once Again point out that the major majority of the leadership has started this process (JAB14) and renewed the mandate for this process (JWC14) and the leadership will be voting on the final proposal once it is finished.

I personally have no illutions about a proposal where everyone is happy - i know that some are strongly against allowing this many people to have a right to vote and on the other hand some think even more should have a right to vote - its 2 very different positions yet being in opposition to the proposal it can seem there is a uniform side against, and there really isnt - there is many variation opinions that think parts should be different and thats fine - we are in truth a global and very diverse organization and thats our biggest forte and strongest asset - but it also means that this ultimately will be a compromise between all those interests, parties, opinions, cultures, expectancies etc.

What stands is that this proposal _will_ get to a vote and lets not waste time trying to sidetrack it any longer but instead lets focus on getting the most out of it and get it to the vote.

@Duke good long post and lots of good ideas - id think if the vote becomes a No there is something to break out and continue the work on - but first we will see what the vote is.

@All in any case, whatever the vote is we win - we as in the project, the community, all of us - we have had so many new ideas and concepts on the table and we are now seeing broad support behind major aspects of the proposal which was never there before - elements of inclusion for local Communities, voting based leadership, ombudsman structure, clear and accountable leadership and rules appling to all etc. there are so many more elements that really will help us move forward and empower even more people to contribute and by that hopefully make sure we can go from a Little that contributes a lot, to a lot that contributes a Little, for it is truely there our future and biggest potential lays.
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by infograf768 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:27 am

@Duke
Thanks a lot for your input. It clearly shows the project has other choices than the one proposed/imposed here.
tresan wrote:we are now seeing broad support behind major aspects of the proposal which was never there before
It looks like you still do not even want to consider that this "support" is not as broad as you wish for the main aspects. That is sad.
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Re: Community Feedback on the Proposal for a New Organizatio

Post by pe7er » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:39 am

This topic has been closed. The period to provide feedback on the structural proposal is over, see the time frame: http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leade ... ology.html
Thanks for all feedback!
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