Joomla Code of Conduct Update - Community Feedback
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 2:26 pm
Please use this forum thread to discuss the blog post at http://community.joomla.org/blogs/commu ... dback.html
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Thank you for the appreciation, indeed it has been a long - and much overdue - process and we are pleased to have reached this stage.Let me preface what I am about to say with, I appreciate the effort that goes into creating a document such as this CoC and the courage of the volunteers to attempt enforcement. Good luck and Godspeed.
That’s a valid comment. We took examples from multiple sources - Open Source projects such as KDE, Typo3, Ubuntu, Drupal to name but a few - and other sources who have communities around their products and services.This document reads a bit like a high school field trip permission slip. It is too wordy and too apologetic. It is also written through the prism of OSM and not the community as a whole. An example of succinct rules can be found here in our own forum viewtopic.php?f=8&t=65
That’s a great question, thank you for asking it. There is a whole section in the document which details the proposed process. This was based on a document which was originally written by Ryan Ozimek, and which he posted on the public Joomla Leadership Group here: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/joomla- ... tMFYZbU1gJ - we adapted this to take into account that we might be dealing with issues that are not ‘seriously bad behaviour’ requiring a ban - so some of the parts in this proposed process are slightly adapted.How in the world are you going to enforce these rules? What are the consequences?
The team who were tasked to update the Code of Conduct policy were suggested to form the interim team and act in the capacity of the Conflict Resolution Team until such a time as the policy was accepted, and there was a full process to elect a team of individuals.Are Diane, Alice, Jacques and yourself now the Joomla Police?
The process has been developed with the guidance of other Open Source projects to ensure that this kind of abuse of power could not happen. Firstly, the team would be comprised of a group of individuals who are all working together for the good of the community, personal vendettas simply don’t have a place in that team. Secondly, there would need to be an incident to trigger the process, reported through the appropriate method, which would initiate hearing all sides of the incident, including yours. Finally, any proposed sanctions would need to be discussed by, and voted by a majority of two-thirds of the current Joomla leadership. Therefore I think it would be highly unlikely that you could get banned just because ‘you simply don’t care for me’.I've been known to butt heads with all 4 of you, will I get banned because you simply don't care for me?
No, given the responses above I hope that it makes it clear it won't be possible to have sanctions imposed just because you don't agree with something. What our community should be mindful of, however, is the way in which they express their disagreement. That should be expressed with the Code of Conduct in mind.Do I have to be careful to agree with you at all times for fear of sanctions?
We absolutely agree, which is why we explicitly stated our acknowledgement of this. As stated above, it is necessary to start somewhere, the team at the moment is purposely called the interim team - until such a time as a proper process is in place to elect a team.Your team is TOO small and lacks community diversity.
This is something that would need to be discussed on a case by case basis and agreed by the leadership teams as a two thirds majority. Some examples provided by other Open Source projects include making a formal public or private apology, stepping down from roles, taking a 'time out' from contributing, revoking of privileges, revoking of commit rights, revoking of access to resources, and so forth.What are the sanctions? How can you ban someone from Twitter or Facebook?
This has been the case in the past and we sincerely hope that this policy will go some way to address this going forward.This community is very quick to forgive the offender and brand the victim as a troublemaker.
is contradicted by the followingIf a LT member is involved, it would be sent to all LT members excluding those involved in the incident
you would have to email the rest of the team (those not involved) separately, surely.If, as a result of the discussions on the Leadership Team private mailing list,
Thank you for raising this terminology being unclear. If the incident involved Leadership Team members, they would be excluded from the discussions about the incident. This would be accomplished by mailing people directly, rather than using the LT internal mailing list. I will add a comment to this section suggesting that it is clarified.If a LT member is involved, it would be sent to all LT members excluding those involved in the incident
is contradicted by the following
If, as a result of the discussions on the Leadership Team private mailing list,
you would have to email the rest of the team (those not involved) separately, surely.
Great question, I am not sure that we can give a definitive answer at this moment in time. The role of Ombudsman remains to be defined by the Transition Team. A likely outcome could be that the Conflict Resolution Team would have a close working relationship with any Ombudsman process. Ideally complaints would be processed through the Conflict Resolution Team and potentially, if any of the parties are unhappy with the outcome, the Ombudsman could review the processes as you would see in other organisations with such a structure.does the crt replace or assist the ombudsman role?
Cindy,montano wrote:I edited your document down to one page Here
Much of what is written on the original should be moved to a Standard Operating Procedure handbook for volunteers on their respective teams.
Perhaps a blog post giving examples of scenarios, but those examples do not need to be included on the document itself.
Names of the CRT members should not be on the document. It could prevent someone from submitting a report.
Cindy I'm sorry to hear that you feel this is losing traction. During this process an incident arose which the interim team were asked to look into as a matter of priority. Unfortunately this meant that we had to slightly delay compiling the feedback into a version that we could present for voting by the Leadership Teams.montano wrote:It is unfortunate that this important topic is losing traction. It is something that affects us all.
As a bit of background, I took a personal interest in this when I was verbally attacked by a serving board member while in a conversation with another individual who was not involved in the project (just a regular volunteer helping me with organising a project). The board member in question was - after the incident being raised with the board and discussed internally - subsequently re-elected despite a known history of repeated incidents of this nature and an ongoing complaint against them.montano wrote:Would you help me understand what's wrong with the current CoC document http://www.joomla.org/about-joomla/the- ... nduct.html
I believe that both need attention, the way we word the code of conduct needs updating to reflect the world in which we live, and the way we enforce the rules needs to be made clear. We need to have the confidence to enforce the rules when it is appropriate to do so. The community need to have confidence in the processes, so that when sanctions are imposed they understand and trust the process that has been followed to get to that point. Community members should feel that if they raise a complaint there is a clear process to do so, and a fair process for the complaint to be investigated.montano wrote:It seems the issue is how to enforce the rules, not the need to create new rules. How is that going?
The election of the team will form part of the structure transition process, currently the listed members remain as the interim team.montano wrote: Who are the Conflict Resolution Team members? Is it still just you, Dianne and Alice?