Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

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Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby ChiefGoFor » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:08 pm

Questions pertaining to the Call for Nominations for Department Coordinator Team Lead

https://community.joomla.org/blogs/lead ... inees.html

Breakdown of Teams by Department along with who will be their Team Lead after Transition is complete:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Lo/pubhtml

Please keep questions civil (nice).

Thank you!
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby itoctopus » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:15 pm

Hello Kenneth,

Quick question: What are the responsibilities of this role?
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby ChiefGoFor » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:29 pm

Hi ioctopus,

Each Department Coordinator Team Leader will be responsible for overseeing the teams within their department as well as sitting on the Board as a Director.


Please let me know if you need any further clarification, however each department is different and each Department Coordinator Team Lead will be responsible for everything doing with their department.
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby JacquesR » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:03 pm

Please list the teams that fall under each of these Departments:

    Production Department
    Legal & Finance Department
    Marketing & Communication Department
    Events Department
    Operations Department
    Programs Department

The Local Communities Department Coordinator Team Leader role will be set up at a later time.

Is this not a required Department, or how/when will this Department come into operation?
(mentioned in http://opensourcematters.org/images/doc ... ByLaws.pdf Section 4.0.1 B)

Which of these department heads will be elected for 6 or 12 month terms? (Section 5.0.3 B)

Would I be correct in saying that a Class 3 Member (Team Members) specifically have a say in voting for team leads, but not for any other official business of the organisation?
("Members" is often used in the bylaws without specifying the classes. See Section 6.01 versus 6.02)
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby ChiefGoFor » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:33 pm

Great questions Jacques,

I apologize if the explanations are long. It is obvious that you read through the ByLaws, so I know you understand a lot more than most people. In some cases, I am giving additional information to your question, which I believe you already understand, but I wanted to help others who may not be aware.

List of Teams vs Departments
TJ is working on getting the list of teams and their departments together in a presentable format. If he is unable to get it out by tomorrow, message me privately and I will take care of it.
EDIT (2016-12-21): List here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Lo/pubhtml

Local Communities
This was a tough decision. We originally had someone on the Transition Team whose sole job was to tackle this task. Unfortunately, that person is no longer involved with the team. In fact, TJ Baker and I are the only two left. In order not to stall this process even longer or worse yet, start over by building a new team, we made the decision to skip that Department for now and leave it up to the new Leadership to work through it. Although I can not say for sure, they will likely get a group of people together to reach out to all of the JUGs throughout the world and set up the structure. This process will likely take them months.

Departments for 6 or 12 months
Unfortunately (and fortunately), the Transition Team has rules we have to follow. The ByLaws states that Department Coordinator Team Leaders will hold staggering terms so that there is not a 100% turn over each cycle. Every 6 months, half of the these people will be up for reelection. It does not specify what happens initially when it comes to which departments will hold a shorter term. Therefore, that designation will be up to the new Leadership as TJ and I have no authority to make that determination.

Members
This is one of the more confusing parts of the ByLaws. I'll be short about this, and more information and examples are in the ByLaws, but:
  • Team Members vote for Team Leads. - Contributors do not vote, although for the initial election, that designation did not really exist, so I have no doubt that people who would now be considered Contributors participated in elections last month.
  • Team Leads vote for their Department Coordinator Team Lead.
  • Team Leads and Department Coordinator Team Leads vote for Officers (President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer). - This method is somewhat complicated, but each department gets 1 vote for each position. That single vote is determined by a a vote within their department by the Team Leads and Department Coordinator Team Lead.

("Members" is often used in the bylaws without specifying the classes. See Section 6.01 versus 6.02)
I agree. In most cases, there are references elsewhere in the document that clarify the ambiguity. I know there are steps being taken now to clear up some of the confusion pieces. Since the Transition Team's interpretation based on supporting text was accurate, we are not letting that clarification stop of from continuing.

If I missed anything, please let me know. Thank you!
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby uaintgotthisid » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:26 pm

So would a volunteer who creates code in GitHub but doesn't want to get into the politics of being in an actual team get a vote or not?
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby tj.baker » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:50 pm

uaintgotthisid wrote:So would a volunteer who creates code in GitHub but doesn't want to get into the politics of being in an actual team get a vote or not?


If this volunteer is a Team Member they will vote for Team Leader, who represents them in voting for the other positions as Ken outlined in the voting procedures in his last update.
Last edited by tj.baker on Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby uaintgotthisid » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:52 pm

tj.baker wrote:
uaintgotthisid wrote:So would a volunteer who creates code in GitHub but doesn't want to get into the politics of being in an actual team get a vote or not?


If this volunteer is a full member of a team they will vote for Team Leader, who represents them in voting for the other positions as Ken outlined in the voting procedures in his last update.


Are they automatically part of the production team? Should they be part of the production team?
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby tj.baker » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:44 pm

uaintgotthisid wrote:Are they automatically part of the production team? Should they be part of the production team?


No, they are not automatically part of the production team, however, if they wish to join a team in the Production Department, they should reach out and talk to someone to see where they best fit.
If you are interested, please private message me and I will get you in touch with the right people.

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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby JacquesR » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:10 pm

Thanks Ken for your reply, and thanks for you and TJ's hard work in the Transition Team.

List of Teams vs Departments
TJ is working on getting the list of teams and their departments together in a presentable format. If he is unable to get it out by tomorrow, message me privately and I will take care of it.

I do think this is important, and not just for my own personal interest. You have to know which team falls under which department, otherwise you don't know who can vote, and those who are nominating may find it useful to know if the person they are nominating even volunteers in the area (department) that they are being nominated for.

It seems this list is the responsibility of the Secretary of Open Source Matters:

4.0.1. C. The Secretary shall list and maintain on the Volunteers Portal any officially
recognized working group of the Corporation (each a “Working Group” and collectively,
the “Working Group List”). The approval of two-thirds (2/3) of the Full Board (or if
there are no Department Coordinators, the approval of two-thirds (2/3) of the Officers of
the Corporation) shall be required to create or amend the Working Group List. The
Working Group List shall include (1) the specific Department to which each Working
Group belongs, (2) the Team Members of such Working Group, if any, and (3) the
policies applicable to each Working Group, including the roles of any Team Contributor,
Team Member, or Team Leader.


The initial term-length is also important to know, since you have to make this known before voting for someone for a position. Some candidates may also feel more comfortable with a longer or shorter initial term, and that may influence their decision to accept a nomination.

And finally regarding the missing Local Communities department, I understand that the problem is not of your making, but if this is a department that is required by the bylaws (the same bylaws that you follow for the rest of the process), then between yourselves and the current leadership you may have to figure out how to deal with this now instead of later.

4.0.1. B. The Secretary shall list and maintain on the Volunteers Portal any officially
recognized department of the Corporation (each a “Department” and collectively, the
“Department List”). The approval of two-thirds (2/3) of the Members (or if there are no
Team Members, Team Leaders, and Department Coordinators, the approval of two-thirds
(2/3) of the Officers of the Corporation) (“Member Approval”) shall be required to create
or amend the Department List.
The initial Department List shall include the following
seven Departments: Production; Legal & Finance; Marketing & Communication; Events;
Operations; Programs; and Local Communities.
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby tj.baker » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:53 pm

JacquesR wrote:I do think this is important, and not just for my own personal interest. You have to know which team falls under which department, otherwise you don't know who can vote, and those who are nominating may find it useful to know if the person they are nominating even volunteers in the area (department) that they are being nominated for.


Thank you Jacques for the great questions and points of observation.

Regarding the list of Departments and Teams, we created the following outline to help with that: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... Lo/pubhtml

The announcement for the nomination process has been updated to include the link as well.

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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby uaintgotthisid » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:06 pm

What leadership team do the documentation team fall under?
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby tj.baker » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:10 pm

uaintgotthisid wrote:What leadership team do the documentation team fall under?


Production. You can see all teams in the document I linked to above.

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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby Webdongle » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:35 pm

What happened to notifying people by email. I (and others) an email asking us to register to vote. Now (by chance I spot this post. Perhaps email the relevant info to the volunteers who filled in the form ?

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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby ChiefGoFor » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:38 am

Hi Kevin,

Edit: Upon rereading this, my tone appears to me as being somewhat rude. Please do not perceive it as being that tone. It is not my intention.

What happened to notifying people by email. I (and others) an email asking us to register to vote.

I'm confused by your question. Did someone say that an email would be sent out? The Call for Nominations is NOT a request to vote. It is a request to Nominate either yourself or someone else to being head over a Department within Joomla's Leadership structure.

Now (by chance I spot this post.

I'm glad you found this post. It was also posted on the Leadership Blog, Twitter, and Facebook. I'm not sure any more methods of communication are needed.

Perhaps email the relevant info to the volunteers who filled in the form ?

I'm not sure what form you are talking so I can't comment on what "relevant info" you want.

Please let me know if you have any further questions about this. Feel free to either reply here or privately using Glip.

Thank you sir!
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby Webdongle » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:25 am

ChiefGoFor wrote:Edit: Upon rereading this, my tone appears to me as being somewhat rude. Please do not perceive it as being that tone. It is not my intention.
You have a rude 'tone' ... that's a laugh. You don't know what rude is :D


ChiefGoFor wrote:I'm confused by your question. Did someone say that an email would be sent out? The Call for Nominations is NOT a request to vote. It is a request to Nominate either yourself or someone else to being head over a Department within Joomla's Leadership structure.
November 20th I received a 'round robin' email about voting for Team leader for Bugsquad ... is that different to department heads ?

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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby brian » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:36 am

Yes it is different. The JBS already voted for a team leader. See https://volunteers.joomla.org/teams/bug ... transition

This is for department heads. JBS is a team in the production department.

See the announcement for a list of which team is in which department.
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby Webdongle » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:10 am

Thanks Brian... I've had some sleep and taken a second look. I see now.

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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby brian » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:48 am

The headline probably shouldnt have used the incorrect terminology "Department Coordinator Team Lead" and instead just used the correct terminology "Department Coordinators" - that would have removed the confusion
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby ChiefGoFor » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:28 pm

Hi Brian!

Thanks for answering Webdongle earlier.

Pertaining to your comment about the terminology. This was confusing to me at first as well. My first draft of the Call for Nominations did not have" Team Lead" after it.

Technically, anyone on the Department Coordinator Team will be called a Department Coordinator. While I typically keep my opinions out of everything related to the Transition process, I'll say that I'm not a fan of the terminology on this one. I'm still struggling with this myself as the Bylaws technically do not mention the term "Department Coordinator Team Lead" and tend to reference "Department Coordinator" generically as someone on the Board (bringing more weight to your comment).

Thanks!
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby brian » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:41 pm

,"Technically, anyone on the Department Coordinator Team will be called a Department Coordinator".

Yes that's correct but what you are calling for here is for the members of that team and not for the non existent position of the leader of that team
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby ChiefGoFor » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:45 pm

The "Department Coordinator Team Lead" is the same as the Director of a given department. People are being nominated to serve as the Head of a given department.

Again, I'm not a fan of the terminology either. :-/
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby brian » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:58 pm

If the terminology being used does not accurately represent the roles as defined in the by-laws then people who nominate, or are nominated for, a role can not know what they are being nominated for
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby uaintgotthisid » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:00 pm

What is the outcome you're looking for Brian?
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby Webdongle » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:25 pm

brian wrote:If the terminology being used does not accurately represent the roles as defined in the by-laws then people who nominate, or are nominated for, a role can not know what they are being nominated for
100% agree. And would add ... If people are voted in as a 'Title' that is not used in the by-laws then what legal powers do they have ? Are their legal powers made up as they go along and thus side-stepping the by-laws ?

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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby ChiefGoFor » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:32 pm

All points noted. These are things that I hope are cleared up in future versions of the By-Laws to be honest.

@Webdongle - Yes, it's legal. Please do not suggest anything improper is going on or that By-Laws are being side-stepped. I do not want this thread turning into the what the Glip channel turned into weeks ago. We are trying to work this process. Suggesting things that are not true will only eat up unneeded time that TJ and I need to keep this process moving. Adding the term "Team Lead" is to differentiate from other Department Coordinators on the Department Coordinator Team. It does not change the position or what it stands for, nor its responsibilities.

Thanks guys.
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby brian » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:41 pm

(note I was not suggesting anything improper at all just that clarity was needed to ensure that the roles being nominated for matched the roles defined in the by laws)
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby ChiefGoFor » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:43 pm

Thank you Brian. :) To be honest, I think we agree on all points.

Edit:
I'll also add, that paragraph #2 of the Call for Nominations notice states:
The time has now come to open the floor for nominations for Joomla’s Department Coordinator Team Leaders. Each Department Coordinator Team Leader will be responsible for overseeing the teams within their department as well as sitting on the Board as a Director.


There is also further clarification after the bullet list of positions open for nomination.
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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby Webdongle » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:56 pm

ChiefGoFor wrote:... Yes, it's legal. Please do not suggest anything improper is going on or that By-Laws are being side-stepped. ...
I was not trying to suggest it was illegal I was trying to establish how the difference in definitions would (if at all) affect the interpretation of the by-laws. And would it cause the need to alter the by-laws to cover the different definitions.

In other words if any set of rules are defined for specific Positions but the Positions that are filled are called differently ... then
  1. Are the Positions in the rules assumed to match actual Positions ?
    or
  2. Do the definitions in the rules (at some point) need to be adjusted to incorporate the definitions that actually exist ?

ChiefGoFor wrote:I'm still struggling with this myself as the Bylaws technically do not mention the term "Department Coordinator Team Lead" and tend to reference "Department Coordinator" generically as someone on the Board
If a Position exists called 'Production Department Coordinator Team Leader' and is not defined in the by-laws and is causing you confusion now ... how much confusion will it cause further down the line ?

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Re: Call for Nominations - Department Coordinator Team Lead

Postby ChiefGoFor » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:10 pm

Hi Kevin,

The confusing part is how the term "Department Coordinator" is used. I can't say for sure what steps are being taken to make this less confusing. This role is well defined in the By-Laws. It is primarily called just "Department Coordinator". The decision to add "Team Lead" is only for purposes on this Call for Nomination. I agree with you that the term should be better defined. I hope that clears this up. I prefer not to clutter up this thread any further about this, only because I feel like we will end up going in circles. Please reach out to me privately if you wish to discuss further. I am very happy to do so. Thank you sir.
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