How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

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Webdongle
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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by Webdongle » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:30 am

"
Editor
Edit...........Inherited.....Allowed (Inherited)"

Where is Editor Inheriting Allowed from?
Author is "Edit...........Inherited.....Not Allowed (Inherited)" therefore Editor would Inherit 'Not Allowed'

You are getting confused somewhere.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by A3Spruit » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:28 am

I only described how inheriting of permissions from a blog category to an article works on my Joomla website. And I wonder if it is normal that the 'edit own' permission for the author in the blog category disappears when creating an article in that category (why it does not inherit to the created article).

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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by Webdongle » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:41 pm

Your post said that
Author is "Edit...........Inherited.....Not Allowed (Inherited)"
and that
Editor is "Edit...........Inherited.....Allowed (Inherited)"

Normally Editor Inherits from Author but that is not so in this case because Author is Not Allowed for that setting. So where is Editor Inheriting their settings from?

Either Editor is
"Edit...........Inherited.....Allowed (Inherited)"
or
"Edit...........Inherited.....Allowed"
In either case you are making a mistake
If the former then you have altered the Parent of Editor
If the latter you are making typo's

A classic mistake is to misunderstand the hierarchy and make a Permission (a hard) Denied.

I would recommend you install a fresh Joomla in a test environment and compare each User Group's Permissions.
Compare each User Group's Global Permissions that Article/Categories Permissions then each Category. Do that for each User group one at a time.
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What is the question?

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:35 pm

I do not know what we are discussing. Are we discussing what an Author can do, what an Editor can do, or what a Publisher can do?

@Webdongle and @A3Spruit: I am attaching screenshots of the permissions for a category—the category was created by the superuser account—made from a "vanilla-flavoured", unmodified, standard J! 3.9.14 website. Please refer to these screenshots to see the standard permissions applied to Authors, Editors and Publishers. These screenshots may help clear some of the confusion. Perhaps both of you may want to compare my screenshots with the screens you see on your websites.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
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Re: What is the question?

Post by Webdongle » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:52 pm

sozzled wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:35 pm
I do not know what we are discussing. Are we discussing what an Author can do, what an Editor can do, or what a Publisher can do?...
That is not surprising because the op has messed with the Permissions. He says that Editor has 'Edit' Allowed (inherited). But the Author Not Allowed (inherited). Therefore the Author is not the Parent of Editor which shows the OP has deviated from default settings.

Also he says the Editor is not able to edit their own Articles. I feel the OP has gone too far 'down the line (without properly understanding the Group/Permissions) and has become completely muddled up.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: What is the question?

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:05 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:52 pm
... the OP has messed with the Permissions. He says that Editor has 'Edit' Allowed (inherited). But the Author Not Allowed (inherited). Therefore the Author is not the Parent of Editor which shows the OP has deviated from default settings.
Refer to the screenshots I posted above.

The screenshots also show the hierarchy for Registered > Author > Editor > Publisher.

I see (on my website) Author [Inherited] *not* allowed to edit. I see (on my website) Editor [Inherited] allowed to edit. I believe that these are the defaults. In what way do you think that the OP has deviated from the default settings?
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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by Webdongle » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:14 pm

Then is something wrong there because a child should not Inherit Allowed when the Parent is Not Allowed. It should inherit the value of the Parent. Will do some tests in the mean time manually set it to Allowed.

It is only in Uncategorised that this occurs. If I set Global to Denied then the value in Uncategorised is Denied (locked). But if Global is set Inherit the value in Global is Inherited Not Allowed but Uncatorgorised does not change. Will create an issue.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: What is the question?

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:28 pm

I don't understand the question! (Let me repeat that: I don't understand the question!)

@Webdongle: please refer to the third screenshot of the third post in this topic. My Dutch is a little hazy but this screenshot looks almost the same as the third screenshot that I posted two hours ago. Perhaps someone, with a better understanding of Dutch, may confirm that "Overgenomen" = "Inherited"

Unless something has been changed in the relationship between Registered > Author > Editor > Publisher on the OP's website, the screenshot shows that the relationship is what we should expect.

You asked where these permissions "inherited" from? They are inherited, in the first instance, from the global settings and then they propagate down there.

For the—I've lost count of how many times I've mentioned it—nth time, the original subject (that had something to do with Publishers) has changed; I think we're discussing something about Authors ... but now there's been some mention about Editors and I'm completely lost! I believe it would be better if the OP created a new topic and let's forget about the continuing mystery surrounding this discussion.

If we have a better understanding of the question, if we can help the OP to ask that question, then we may be able to point to a solution. Understanding the question should be our number one priority.

So, for the nth time: what is the question here? Can someone please explain what the OP really wants to do because I don't know.
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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by Webdongle » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:37 pm

It is simple. In Categories >>> Uncategorised >>> Permissions >>> Editor ... Edit should show Allowed instead of Allowed(Inherited). That is because it is taking it's value from the Global setting not Inheriting from the Parent.

Check other Categories and you will see it is just Allowed.

Change the Global setting to Inherited and the value in Global becomes Not Allowed(Inherited) but the value in the Uncategorised Category remains Allowed(Inherited). It should also change!!!

https://issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/27576
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: I still don't understand the question!

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:44 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:37 pm
It is simple. In Categories >>> Uncategorised >>> Permissions >>> Editor ... Edit should show Allowed instead of Allowed(Inherited). That is because it is taking it's value from the Global setting not Inheriting from the Parent.
Why are we talking about Editors?

You say that the permissions for Editors (for the "Uncategorised" category) show Allowed instead of Allowed(Inherited). That's not what I see. Refer to the second screenshot in my post a couple of hours ago. I don't see that, sorry. Sounds like there's something changed in your website, mate. ;)
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Re: I still don't understand the question!

Post by Webdongle » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:10 pm

sozzled wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:44 pm
...

You say that the permissions for Editors (for the "Uncategorised" category) show Allowed instead of Allowed(Inherited). ...
No you twisted what I said.
I said it should show Allowed instead of Allowed(Inherited).
That is because In Global it shows Allowed.

If you change it in Global to Inherited the calculated in Global shows Not Allowed(Inherited) ... but the calculated value in Uncategorised remains unchanged.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: I have no idea what this topic is about.

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:25 pm

Why are we now talking about changing global settings? How does this help the OP? I am so lost ...

??? ??? :eek:
Webdongle wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:10 pm
... you twisted what I said.
I said it should show Allowed instead of Allowed(Inherited).
Sorry; it didn't intentionally mean to write what I wrote. I wanted to confirm my understanding of what you wrote. My earlier reply contained a typo. I meant to include the word "should" ...

I didn't mean to twist the meaning but, please understand, I'm very confused as to what we're discussing here and how that helps the OP.

The screenshot I posted three hours ago confirms my understanding of what currently happens with a stock-standard J! 3.9.14 website where the global [permission] settings have not been altered.
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by Webdongle » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:27 pm

It is complicated. The op has several issues but they are being complicated by the wrong 'Calculated value' in Uncategorised Permissions.

Whether or not that is causing the op problems or that once an Article is created/saved (by a user in a a group that does not have 'Edit state' Allowed) can not see the Article until someone (with 'Edit state' Allowed) Publishes it.

It is fairly easy to explain how to set up a user group structure but it difficult when someone has started the structure and got things disorganised.

Catch 22 the op can't explain clearly what they are trying to achieve because they don't know how to do it. If they knew how to explain it they would not need to ask.

@A3Spruit
Please try again to explain what you need
If you have Categories below Uncategorised then move them up so they are not inheriting Permissions from Uncategorised
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How can an ****Author**** see and edit his own blog once the article has been created and saved?

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:41 pm

@Webdongle: please read the subject of this post and then read below:
A3Spruit wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:43 am
How can an Author see and edit his own ... article(s) [after saving it/them]?
This is what the OP wants.

For various reasons, "out-of-the-box" J! 3.x doesn't make it easy to do this.

As I also explained, things don't work properly (for me, at least) by tinkering around with Author permissions; things also don't work for me if I try to create a new usergroup as a child of Author. While it's OK to dispute why things don't work for me, or to suggest that things should work this way, I found it was easier to create a new usergroup as a child of Registered and give to that usergroup the required editing permissions so that, in effect, an "author"—but not a user account that is assigned to the Author usergroup—could see and edit their own articles.

That's what I've written. If someone else has a proven working example to do it another way, I would be delighted to see it.
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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by Webdongle » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:02 pm

Answer to that is set 'Edit State' Allowed for Publisher (or Author or any group that does not have 'Edit State' Allowed) . That can be done in
Global config Permissions ... allows unpublished to be displayed and publish/unpublish
or
Articles/Categories Permissions ... allows unpublished to be displayed and publish/unpublish (no real advantage over global just 'tidier'
or
Per selected Category(s) ... allows unpublished to be displayed and publish/unpublish for selected Categories

But
IF all the added Categories are under Uncategorised
AND there is a problem with Permissions in Uncategorised
Then things might not work as expected. That's why I recommended the op move Categories from under Uncategorised .

But we don't know if the OP is not understanding about 'Edit State or if he does and it is the Permissions error in Uncategorised that is preventing things happening.
Last edited by Webdongle on Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Webdongle: you are not addressing the question ...

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:55 pm

sozzled wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:41 pm
@Webdongle: please read the subject of this post and then read below:
A3Spruit wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:43 am
How can an Author see and edit his own ... article(s) [after saving it/them]?
This is what the OP wants.
We are not talking about Publishers. We are talking about someone who is not a Publisher (or an Editor, for that matter). The OP wants to know about Authors.
Webdongle wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:02 pm
Answer to that is set 'Edit State' Allowed for Publisher.
That's not the question. Please address the question.

Also, there is no need to change the permissions (in a category) for Publishers. We know that Publishers can—without modifying permissions—view and edit the contents of articles that have been created by anyone. We know that. Please don't talk about Publishers. OK? The OP wants to know about Authors.
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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:09 am

Stop confusing the issue. The same applies for any user group. 'Edit State' Allowed needs to be set for a user in the group to see their created Article. The reason is that without that Permission their Article gets saved as unpublished.

But there is another issue here in that Permissions for the Uncategorised Category sho the incorrect settings. So Categories under it may not be observing Permissions correctly.

When the op posts back and confirms
'Edit State' Allowed has been set (in the appropriate group) and the added Categories are not under Uncategorised ... then we can move on.
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https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: How can an ****Author**** see and edit his own blog once the article has been created and saved?

Post by sozzled » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:15 am

Are you saying that, to allow an Author (i.e. an account that is currently assigned to the Author usergroup) to "see" and change their articles, the OP needs to change the permissions for the Publisher group? Yes?
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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:53 am

No I am saying that a user must be in a user group that has 'Edit State' Allowed to see a created Article that they just saved. That is until it is published.

Only users in a user group with 'Edit State' Allowed can see unpublished Articles

Users (in a group with Create Permissions) can only (in the frontend) save Articles in Categories that are view/access level their group is selected in.

Articles created by users in a group without 'Edit State' Allowed are saved unpublished ... and therefore are not able to see their Article until someone else publishes it. (''Edit State' can either be set manually or Allowed(Inherited)


Now here is the issue
By default Editor is 'Edit State' Not Allowed(Inherited). But in Uncategorised Category it is Not Allowed(Inherited).

Changing Global to Allowed should cause it to show 'Allowed' in Uncategorised Category, however in Uncategorised it remains Not Allowed(Inherited). As Child Categories inherit the Permissions of the Parent then that could be causing a problem.

But until the op posts back we do not know if they understand 'Edit State' Allowed needs to be set.
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https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Generally about propagation of permissions and about the question(s) asked in this discussion

Post by sozzled » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:59 am

Webdongle wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:09 am
There is another issue here in that Permissions for the Uncategorised category show the incorrect settings. So categories under it may not be observing Permissions correctly.
For the sake of experimentation, I created a new category as a child of the Uncategorised category. I did not modify the global settings for Author, Editor or Publisher.

The permissions for Author, Editor and Publisher are as I expect. In other words, see the screenshot I posted a few hours ago and there's no difference between those permissions and the permissions for the new category that I created. Does that help, @Webdongle?

I'm not creating confusion here. I am confused (and I happily admit it). I am trying only to understand your answer above—where you wrote "Answer to that ..." in relation to the OP's question. I don't understand the question you are answering. Perhaps it would assist matters if you explain your understanding of what you think is the OP's question?
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Re: How can an ****Author**** see and edit his own blog once the article has been created and saved?

Post by sozzled » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:19 am

Webdongle wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:53 am
No I am saying that a user must be in a user group that has 'Edit State' Allowed to see a created Article that they just saved. That is until it is published.
I agree (see also my suggestion solution to that question here: viewtopic.php?f=706&t=976870#p3592208). I understand that you disagree with my suggested solution.

Webdongle wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:53 am
Only users in a user group with 'Edit State' Allowed can see unpublished Articles
I agree. By default, accounts that are assigned only to the Author usergroup do not have that permission. That's normal. It is also possible to create another usergroup—separate from the pre-defined Author usergroup (as a child of Registered)—to work through the OP's problem as I wrote earlier.

Webdongle wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:53 am
Users (in a group with Create Permissions) can only (in the frontend) save Articles in Categories that are view/access level their group is selected in.
I don't know. This may have a bearing on the outcome. I haven't experimented enough with view access for "authors" to determine what is required.

Webdongle wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:53 am
Articles created by users in a group without 'Edit State' Allowed are saved unpublished ... and therefore are not able to see their Article until someone else publishes it. ''Edit State' can either be set manually or Allowed(Inherited)
I agree but I'm not sure if that is a complete solution. I say that this can be achieved by creating a usergroup as a child of Registered and set the permissions accordingly for specific categories. I think that @Webdongle is saying that a different usergroup can be used as a parent category. I haven't been able to make it work that way (even after spending a couple of hours trying).

As I have written many times in this topic, the original subject written by the OP has changed and that has caused part of the confusion. I've tried my best to understand the OP's question; I've also tried my best to understand @Webdongle's answer(s) but I don't thing the two are complementing one another.

Webdongle wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:53 am
Now here is the issue
By default Editor is 'Edit State' Not Allowed(Inherited). But in Uncategorised Category it is Not Allowed(Inherited).
I don't understand how this is "the issue". We're not discussing accounts assigned to the Editor usergroup.

Webdongle wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:53 am
Changing Global to Allowed should cause it to show 'Allowed' in Uncategorised Category, however in Uncategorised it remains Not Allowed(Inherited). As Child Categories inherit the Permissions of the Parent then that could be causing a problem.
I do not understand the need to change global permissions as a way of progressing the solution that allows "authors" to see and modify content that they created. It's possible that there's another problem (and it might be better to take that matter out of this discussion) that is causing the confusion.
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:15 am

sozzled wrote:For the sake of experimentation, I created a new category as a child of the Uncategorised category. I did not modify the global settings for Author, Editor or Publisher.

The permissions for Author, Editor and Publisher are as I expect. In other words, see the screenshot I posted a few hours ago and there's no difference between those permissions and the permissions for the new category that I created.
If it is exactly the same as Uncategorised then some Permissions will show Allowed (Inherited) instead of just saying Allowed. So it will be showing incorrectly.






sozzle wrote:I do not understand the need to change global permissions as a way of progressing the solution that allows "authors" to see and modify content that they created.
Because without 'Edit state' Allowed The Article is unpublished until another user publishes it.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by A3Spruit » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:18 pm

In my last post I said that I created a 'blog category' - or formulated more specific - a category with layout type 'blog'. That category showed the permissions as described in that post, with for the author the permission 'edit own'.

When creating an article as a member of that category the permission at that article for 'edit own' for an author disappeared, so it was not inherited.

I wondered if this is normal behavior of Joomla 3.

I activated the English language package.
Yes, 'overgenomen' in Dutch means 'inherited'.

I add two screenshots with the permissions for an author of the 'blog category' and the 'blog arcticle'.
Blog_category_permissions_author.png
Blog_article_permissions_author.png
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Re: How can a publisher view and publish an article created by a user with author rights

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:04 am

I managed to replicate your problem a few times but then failed to replicate them.
When 'Inherited'
Article Permissions Inherit from their Category
Category Permissions Inherit from their Parent Category
Top level Categories Permissions Inherit from Articles/Categories Options
Articles/Categories Options Permissions Inherit from Global

Suggest you have 4 windows/tabs open in Admin and (more if you have Child Categories). Then compare each user group Permissions in each.
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