Update Sites turn themselves off

Need help with the Administration of your Joomla! 3.x site? This is the spot for you.

Moderator: General Support Moderators

Forum rules
Forum Rules
Absolute Beginner's Guide to Joomla! <-- please read before posting, this means YOU.
Forum Post Assistant - If you are serious about wanting help, you will use this tool to help you post.
Windows Defender SmartScreen Issues <-- please read this if using Windows 10.
Locked
DavidBoggitt
Joomla! Guru
Joomla! Guru
Posts: 829
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:16 pm
Contact:

Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by DavidBoggitt » Tue May 22, 2018 5:28 pm

Hi there,

Why is it that some of the 'Update Sites' listings disable themselves, when they still point to extensions that are current and installed?

I turn them on, rebuild, but at some point some of them still disable themselves..!

Dave.
My website: http://www.davidboggitt.com/
Love and hate both devastate you, but at least love takes you to dinner first.

User avatar
JAVesey
Joomla! Hero
Joomla! Hero
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 1:21 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK
Contact:

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by JAVesey » Tue May 22, 2018 5:32 pm

DavidBoggitt wrote:Why is it that some of the 'Update Sites' listings disable themselves, when they still point to extensions that are current and installed?

I turn them on, rebuild, but at some point some of them still disable themselves..!
I've asked this before and the answer was that they are disabled automatically if they don't respond.

I also asked if it were possible to give, say, a "three strikes and your out" type of behaviour but apparently not.

Probably not what you wanted to hear...
John V
Cardiff, Wales, UK
Uses Joomla 3.9.26 and PHP7.4.16

User avatar
sozzled
Joomla! Master
Joomla! Master
Posts: 10103
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:30 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by sozzled » Tue May 22, 2018 7:39 pm

A couple of general thoughts.

1) I haven't personally experienced this issue (well, I don't remember it happening to me, no)
2) "Update Sites" information is stored in the database table _update_sites. A site is disabled if the value of the column enabled = 0
3) Because the information is stored in the database, if there's a problem with the database engine or in the table structure, the information may become corrupted.
4) It may depend on the database collation/character-encoding mechanism at play with the table.

Best way to identify the probable cause of the problem is to see the output from the Forum Post Assistant. Although it's possible that running the database repair feature in the backend may identify and temporarily fix the issue, there are several possibilities for how this issue is occurring (including the possibility that someone else is disabling extension update notifications). Who knows? :-\
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
“If you think I’m wrong then say, ‘I think you’re wrong.’ If you say ‘You’re wrong!’, how do you know?” :)

User avatar
AMurray
Joomla! Champion
Joomla! Champion
Posts: 6614
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Australia

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by AMurray » Tue May 22, 2018 10:03 pm

I have had the same problem with automatic disabling of update sites (for well known, and reliable extensions e.g. Akeeba, JCE, Regular Labs among them).

I host with SiteGround (highest of the shared hosting plans) but found it took forever for extension update checks to be done, and resulted often in Gateway time-outs (this also affected the myjoomla.com connection with my site - and they did identify an issue with SiteGround, who provided a fix).

The Siteground solution was to increase the timeout setting in .htaccess. It seems to work but still the update servers are slow to respond (between 1-2 minutes before the "checking extensions...." changes to "No updates" or "X Updates available" in the Joomla Admin control panel.

Was running Joomla 3.8.7; updated 3.8.8 this morning 23/5/2018.
Regards,
--------------------------------------------------------------
A Murray
Help you I can, yes!. Post your question, you should. Keep it on topic you must!
Use the Forc....Forum Post Assistant my young Padawan!

User avatar
sozzled
Joomla! Master
Joomla! Master
Posts: 10103
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:30 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by sozzled » Tue May 22, 2018 10:28 pm

Hmmm ... interesting. I find it curious that a timeout—simply because a site can't be reached in a certain amount of time—would trigger [automatically] disabling—flipping a bit in the database table—an update site. If correct, this is probably one for the experts to explain, I think. I haven't looked into the source code.
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
“If you think I’m wrong then say, ‘I think you’re wrong.’ If you say ‘You’re wrong!’, how do you know?” :)

DavidBoggitt
Joomla! Guru
Joomla! Guru
Posts: 829
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by DavidBoggitt » Wed May 23, 2018 5:36 am

It's weird, isn't it...! Responding to AMurray, the check doesn't take long at all, no more than 10-15 seconds (I host with Rochen). And like you, some of the extensions turning themselves off are well-known ones.

It's a real pain to go to update sites, publish all, rebuild, check...

Hmmm...
My website: http://www.davidboggitt.com/
Love and hate both devastate you, but at least love takes you to dinner first.

User avatar
JAVesey
Joomla! Hero
Joomla! Hero
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 1:21 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK
Contact:

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by JAVesey » Wed May 23, 2018 4:41 pm

sozzled wrote:If correct, this is probably one for the experts to explain, I think.
It is correct and one of the experts (a well-known Joomla core dev contributor who often posts in these Forums) confirmed it.
John V
Cardiff, Wales, UK
Uses Joomla 3.9.26 and PHP7.4.16

User avatar
JAVesey
Joomla! Hero
Joomla! Hero
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 1:21 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK
Contact:

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by JAVesey » Wed May 23, 2018 4:48 pm

AMurray wrote:The Siteground solution was to increase the timeout setting in .htaccess.
I'm with Siteground. Could I trouble you to PM the code that was added to your .htaccess file, please?

TIA
John V
Cardiff, Wales, UK
Uses Joomla 3.9.26 and PHP7.4.16

User avatar
AMurray
Joomla! Champion
Joomla! Champion
Posts: 6614
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Australia

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by AMurray » Wed May 23, 2018 9:52 pm

John,
If you use Myjoomla.com go to to the "Known Issues" page. The code is there. But I will PM it to you shortly.

I'm sure it's not unique to Siteground, the code they provide is the .htaccess equivalent of the max_execution_time setting in php.ini, from what i can tell.
Regards,
--------------------------------------------------------------
A Murray
Help you I can, yes!. Post your question, you should. Keep it on topic you must!
Use the Forc....Forum Post Assistant my young Padawan!

User avatar
AMurray
Joomla! Champion
Joomla! Champion
Posts: 6614
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Australia

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by AMurray » Wed May 23, 2018 9:59 pm

JAVesey wrote:
AMurray wrote:The Siteground solution was to increase the timeout setting in .htaccess.
I'm with Siteground. Could I trouble you to PM the code that was added to your .htaccess file, please?

TIA
PM has been sent, please check your in-box.
Regards,
--------------------------------------------------------------
A Murray
Help you I can, yes!. Post your question, you should. Keep it on topic you must!
Use the Forc....Forum Post Assistant my young Padawan!

User avatar
sozzled
Joomla! Master
Joomla! Master
Posts: 10103
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:30 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by sozzled » Wed May 23, 2018 10:39 pm

As I wrote earlier, I am fascinated by this behaviour—"automatically disabling" update sites simply because of a timeout.
JAVesey wrote:
sozzled wrote:If correct, this is probably one for the experts to explain, I think.
It is correct and one of the experts (a well-known Joomla core dev contributor who often posts in these Forums) confirmed it.
Has this behaviour been discussed on GitHub and do you have a reference to it?
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
“If you think I’m wrong then say, ‘I think you’re wrong.’ If you say ‘You’re wrong!’, how do you know?” :)

DavidBoggitt
Joomla! Guru
Joomla! Guru
Posts: 829
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by DavidBoggitt » Thu May 24, 2018 6:06 am

My website: http://www.davidboggitt.com/
Love and hate both devastate you, but at least love takes you to dinner first.

User avatar
sozzled
Joomla! Master
Joomla! Master
Posts: 10103
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:30 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by sozzled » Thu May 24, 2018 6:18 am

Thanks for that. I'm surprise (and a little dismayed) that the question was fairly quickly written-off as "expected behaviour". If a connection timeout is the reason for this to happen then it's theoretically possible that all update sites could become disabled over time.

In the case where a developer ceases to be involved with maintaining their business—where they remove their domain from the internet, for instance—I guess it's reasonable to disable the update site ... manually, that is. I suppose the problem that I have is that something disables the update site—flips a bit in the database—"automagically". I also think that the suggestion, that "nothing can be done in the J! core" [to cancel the automatic disabling] sounds a bit of a cop-out to me. As I wrote earlier, I haven't looked at the code and, at this time, I don't have any intention of examining the code to see how this situation might occur.

Puzzling/curious nonetheless.
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
“If you think I’m wrong then say, ‘I think you’re wrong.’ If you say ‘You’re wrong!’, how do you know?” :)

User avatar
brian
Joomla! Master
Joomla! Master
Posts: 12010
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:19 am
Location: Leeds, UK
Contact:

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by brian » Thu May 24, 2018 7:28 am

As I answered in the github issue. Obviously you wouldnt want your site to continually try to connect to a server that isnt there. That will have big performance impact on your site. Thats why it will be disabled. It could be automatically re-enabled after x time to recheck BUT that would prevent you from manually disabling an update site. Also we display a message on the update screen to tell you that as well as the extension updates that are available there are update sites that were not checked because they are disabled and how to re-enable them

If you have any concrete suggestions how to change this behaviour then we are all ears
"Exploited yesterday... Hacked tomorrow"
Blog http://brian.teeman.net/
Joomla Hidden Secrets http://hiddenjoomlasecrets.com/

DavidBoggitt
Joomla! Guru
Joomla! Guru
Posts: 829
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Update Sites turn themselves off

Post by DavidBoggitt » Thu May 24, 2018 8:38 am

I'm no coder - and I'm full of admiration for those that are!

So, I couldn't implement this, but an option might be a 'never check' button that overrides the enabled/disabled option currently there.
My website: http://www.davidboggitt.com/
Love and hate both devastate you, but at least love takes you to dinner first.


Locked

Return to “Administration Joomla! 3.x”