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Webdongle
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by Webdongle » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:24 am

sozzled wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:04 am
...
My suspicion—the reason why the Live Update method of the Joomla! Update component .
It is not Live Update. The normal way just downloads the update package via the server whereas (with the) Upload&Update the package is downloaded via the users browser.

If the normal method fails and the Upload&Update succeeds then the problem is the server downloading the package. It may sound sheldonesqe but it a significant point.



@kimhuff
Upload Size: 20M | Max. POST Size: 20M ... both should be at lease 32M each

Securitycheck Pro Control Cent (1.1.16) 1 | Securitycheck Pro (3.1.0) 1 | could be restricting the download of the Update package ?

You have unknown Templates ... possibly not fully uninstalled ?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by sozzled » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:13 am

@Webdongle: Are you suggesting that the Live Update method fails (as a reproducible event) because of the type of browser that someone's using?
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by Webdongle » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:26 am

@sozzled
I am saying it is not a Live update

When the 'Update' button is clicked Joomla uses the server to download the package.
When the hyperlink is clicked then a new browser window/tab is opened and the browser handles the download

By using the hyperlink then the correct package is reached and the browser (not the server) handles the download. This by-passes the server. But if the user opens a new browser window/tab and navigates to the download site ... then they may select the wrong package to download.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by kimhuff » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:21 am

I talked to my server company and we were concerned it was a firewall issue in WHM. They asked me to find out the IP ranges for the Live Update.
Regards,

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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by ribo » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:17 pm

You have two issues in your server. First you must speak to your host to install "curl"(this is the most possible reason that you couldnt update) and to increase memory limit from 32M TO 128M and generally tell them to install all Potential Missing Extensions
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by ribo » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:26 pm

kimhuff wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:21 am
I talked to my server company and we were concerned it was a firewall issue in WHM.
Firewall in WHM not affects only one method of joomla update
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by Webdongle » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:25 pm

kimhuff wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:21 am
I talked to my server company and we were concerned it was a firewall issue in WHM. They asked me to find out the IP ranges for the Live Update.
It is not a live update
The difference is only what is used to download the update package

Clicking the update button uses a php script to use the server to download the update package. Several reasons cause the server to fail downloading the file including
1. Firewall
2. Bad security cert on the Host server
To name just two.

Clicking the hyperlink opens a new browser window/tab and uses the browser to download the file. If the browser fails to download that way then ... manually opening up a new window/tab and navigating to the download page will also fail.

The problem here is that the Host server will not allow a script to connect to the download site.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by leolam » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:13 pm

kimhuff wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:16 pm
I've been using Joomla since 1.5 so I'm definitely not a noon. I have about 20+ sites running on 3.8.12 and never have I not been able to use the Live Update option so I was unaware of the manual option.
Are you trying to update Joomla through the Extension Manager? THAT won't fly anymore as it did well in Joomla 1.5/2.5. People sometimes get very much used to 'old habits'

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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by leolam » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:15 pm

kimhuff wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:21 am
I talked to my server company and we were concerned it was a firewall issue in WHM.
Nothing to do with WHM....Host provides wrong info. The only reason why it fails is because "allow_url_fopen" is disabled in php.ini.
allow_url_fopen=0
Check in your settings the php configuration so see that is disabled as per FPA so that the system requirements are not met (see Ribo's remark and note that CURL needs to be enabled on your server which is a fall-back for the mentioned directive)) see https://downloads.joomla.org/technical-requirements

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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by kimhuff » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:07 pm

leolam wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:15 pm
kimhuff wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:21 am
I talked to my server company and we were concerned it was a firewall issue in WHM.
Nothing to do with WHM....Host provides wrong info. The only reason why it fails is because "allow_url_fopen" is disabled in php.ini.
allow_url_fopen=0
Check in your settings the php configuration so see that is disabled as per FPA so that the system requirements are not met (see Ribo's remark and note that CURL needs to be enabled on your server which is a fall-back for the mentioned directive)) see https://downloads.joomla.org/technical-requirements

Leo 8)
What would cause that to get disabled? I've never had a problem until now.
Regards,

Kim Huff
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by sozzled » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:45 pm

What would cause this to happen? You're asking us to guess?

Leo confirmed my suspicion about the issue being related to allow_url_fopen (although he also mentioned curl). Many webhosting providers allow their customers to choose (a) different versions of PHP and (b) what PHP functions are enabled or disabled for those versions. These settings can be often be changed via cPanel. Something you might be able to discuss with your webhosting provider.

There are other ways of changing these settings (if you're a dab hand with .htaccess or php.ini files) but, sometimes, those settings don't override the settings implemented by the webhosting provider. It's too complicated for me to attempt to explain all these things here.

Anyway, I mentioned this matter about four or five posts ago and (until Leo referred to it again) everyone else seems to have overlooked it as being related to the problems you were experiencing. I sincerely doubt that these problems occurred because one or more of your websites had its incarnation back in the days of J! 1.5 (although there may be different problems with them).

What I would like to know is whether you have been able to "up" the limits of the Max. Upload Size, Max. POST Size and (as @Webdongle mentioned) Memory Limit: yes or no?

AFAIK, allow_url_fopen is normally disabled on most servers and it's not normally required by Joomla but that doesn't mean that it can't be enabled, either, and it doesn't mean that (if it's enabled) it's unrelated to the download J! updates issue as well. Try it and see.
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by ribo » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:50 pm

sozzled wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:45 pm
Memory Limit: yes or no?
With Memory Limit only 32M can have issues in some extensions or templates
Last edited by ribo on Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by ribo » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:03 pm

sozzled wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:45 pm

(although he also mentioned curl).
viewtopic.php?f=710&t=966179&start=30#p3543213 and viewtopic.php?f=710&t=966179&start=30#p3543415
Try to install for example a language pack directly from joomla (not with download the package in your pc) without have in your host server Curl
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by Webdongle » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:17 pm

Wasn't the Joomla update component designed to work with or without curl ?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by ribo » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:28 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:17 pm
Wasn't the Joomla update component designed to work with or without curl ?
I am not sure about that. I think that the Joomla update component works with similar way of "Extensions: Install Languages"
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by Webdongle » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:33 pm

I remember Joomla failing to update if curl was disabled on the server but Akeeba tools still being able to update Joomla. So the base code of Akeeba Tools Joomla update ... was used to write the Joomla update component. Thus updating via the Joomla update component didn't rely wholly on curl.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by ribo » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:43 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:33 pm
I remember Joomla failing to update if curl was disabled on the server but Akeeba tools still being able to update Joomla. So the base code of Akeeba Tools Joomla update ... was used to write the Joomla update component. Thus updating via the Joomla update component didn't rely wholly on curl.
I dont know about admin tools, but after a test right now with Curl uninstalled and allow_url_fopen= On we have

Code: Select all

Warning
Update: Could not open update site #1 "Joomla! Core", URL: https://update.joomla.org/core/list.xml
Update: Could not open update site #3 "Joomla! Update Component Update Site", URL: https://update.joomla.org/core/extensions/com_joomlaupdate.xml
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by Webdongle » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:56 pm

ribo wrote:...but after a test right now with Curl uninstalled and allow_url_fopen= On we have
But it used to work like that. So either you messed up with the test or something has changed in the way the component works. It did have a 'fallback' method when curl was not enabled.

https://issues.joomla.org/tracker/jooml ... ent-268210
... If a server has no curl installed than the the server must have allow_url_fopen = enabled. The HTTP/Stream requires PHP's fopen() function and allow_url_fopen enabled
Maybe allow_url_fopen was the original and curl the fallback ? https://docs.joomla.org/Security_Checkl ... _url_fopen
Last edited by Webdongle on Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by ribo » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:01 pm

You can test it too. After when i installed Curl the warnings gone. I tryed to update j 3.8.12 to j 3.8.13
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by ribo » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:07 pm

I have them as it says

Code: Select all

 allow_url_fopen = 1
              allow_url_include = 0
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by sozzled » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:08 pm

So ... for all the panel discussion on the matter, I was right to begin with. The problem is not with the "browser" or with the Joomla distribution server or (instrinically) with the Live Update method of Joomla! Update (necessarily). The error_log gives it away:
  • Solution is to instal curl or enable allow_url_fopen
The problem that I had with this topic—in doing the background research into allow_url_fopen—was that, everywhere I read, "expert users" insisted that allow_url_fopen wasn't required by Joomla. So, rather than saying it might be required in this case (and to fall prey to the ongoing opprobium of Brian Teeman), I tried to steer an I-can't-be-100%-sure course.
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by ribo » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:21 pm

sozzled wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:08 pm
  • Solution is to instal curl or enable allow_url_fopen
I made two tests right now.
First i tryed to update joomla with Curl uninstalled and allow_url_fopen=On and i had

Code: Select all

Warning
Update: Could not open update site #1 "Joomla! Core", URL: https://update.joomla.org/core/list.xml
Update: Could not open update site #3 "Joomla! Update Component Update Site", URL: https://update.joomla.org/core/extensions/com_joomlaupdate.xml
so i could not update.

Second test was with Curl installed and allow_url_fopen=Off and i updated successfully.
So the conclusion is yours to make.

Note that and in my two tests i checked before my php info.
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by Webdongle » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:39 pm

3.8.12 to 3.8.13
Just tested on local host
curl off
allow_fopen On (local value and Master value)
updated
FULL SUCCESS

Perhaps the server you tested on had an old cert ?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by ribo » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:42 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:39 pm

Perhaps the server you tested on had an old cert ?
It s local too
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by Webdongle » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:03 pm

I tested on wamp localhost

curl must be the 'fallback' when allow_fopen is Off. I know that there are a lot of fails due to the server cert not being up to date and not recognising the cert on the download server.

Leo knows more than me about this and can explain it better.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by ribo » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:48 am

Webdongle wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:03 pm
I tested on wamp localhost

curl must be the 'fallback' when allow_fopen is Off. I know that there are a lot of fails due to the server cert not being up to date and not recognising the cert on the download server.

Leo knows more than me about this and can explain it better.
I tested with uniform server with php 7.1(version 13.3.2- it s the latest version)
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by Webdongle » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:37 pm

Wamp php7.2 was what I tested with
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by sozzled » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:11 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:24 am
sozzled wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:04 am
...
My suspicion—the reason why the Live Update method of the Joomla! Update component failed [in the first place] ...
It is not Live Update. The normal way just downloads the update package via the server whereas (with the) Upload&Update the package is downloaded via the users browser.

If the normal method fails and the Upload&Update succeeds then the problem is the server downloading the package. It may sound sheldonesqe but it a significant point.
Just to be completely clear, the "normal method" is referred to as the Live Update method of the Joomla! Update component; the alternative is to use the Upload & Update method of the Joomla! Update component.

If the "normal"/default/Live Update—they're the same thing—updating of J! method fails, the problem requires further investigation into a range of possible causes, none of which can be conclusively guessed. In other words, we don't know what we don't know.
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by Webdongle » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:07 pm

sozzled wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:11 pm
...
If the "normal"/default/Live Update—they're the same thing—updating of J! method fails, the problem requires further investigation into a range of possible causes, none of which can be conclusively guessed. ...
Then the server (for one of several reasons) is failing to download the update file. But if the 'Download url' hyperlink is clicked then the browser handles the download. Clicking that link is preferable to manually navigating to the download page for the simple reason that it avoids human error.

btw
The normal method is 'One Click update' not Live live update.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Joomla 3.8.13 Update - Download Fails

Post by sozzled » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:34 pm

Let's be clear: which server? The Joomla server (hosting the installation package to be used in the download) or the target server hosting the website.

Yes, I agree that there have been connectivity issues in the past with joomla.org and people have been unable to connect in order to obtain the updates. Yes, I agree that—for many reasons—the webhosting service(s) used by people who operate Joomla websites are the causes of people's inability to update Joomla. The solution—the simplistic solution to preferably "navigate" to the download page [to] avoid human error—is one approach but it's not preferable. This approach may rule out human error but, once human error is eliminated (it sounds like something Sherlock Holmes would say), we should find out the true cause. I wouldn't say it's preferable (in all cases); it's just a line of investigation that can be followed.

Once the cause has been identified then we're ahead of the game.

I agree that there are dozens of possibilities for why the Joomla! Update component doesn't work. These causes can include:
  • outdated "server" certificates (at the site host or even at joomla.org)
  • inadequate PHP quotas, e.g. Max. Upload Size, Max. POST Size, Max. Input Time, Max. Execution Time, Memory Limit
  • missing, outdated or disabled PHP functions, e.g. curl, allow_url_fopen
  • peculiar or buggy versions of PHP
  • firewalls
  • peculiar or unsupported browsers, e.g. IE 4
  • peculiar or unsupporter webserver software, e.g. IIS
  • .htaccess rules
  • third-party extensions
  • buffering, internet connectivity, ISP-related
  • penguins flying over the satellite dish
  • the phase of the moon or the alignment of the planets
  • database "issues"
  • when people have used "quickstart packages" to install God-only-knows-what-version of J! in the first place
  • GoDaddy
  • caching (server-side, browser and proxy, e.g. CDN)
  • Russia and other countries who object to Joomla whenever they feel like it
We don't know what we don't know.
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