Can't update Joomla 3.8.4 to 3.8.5

[ptwd]

I just recently installed Joomla to do some testing on extensions, but I'm having no end of problems just getting Joomla core working properly. The current obstacle is that I'm trying to update Joomla from 3.8.4 to 3.8.5 but can't get this done no matter what I try.

I've asked my webhost to increase my upload limit and it is now 100MB, which is plenty for the update file so I'm sure that's not the problem.

When I try updating using Components > Joomla Update, I get "AJAX Loading Error: Not Found."

I found this thread in this forum and tried some of the suggestions, like increasing the upload filesize and making sure I clear the cache before updating. I also tried an idea by a commenter to install the full package using Extensions > Install but it grinds away for ages and then comes back with what looks like a 404 error although it doesn't say which page it couldn't find. When I find my way back to the Extensions > Install page, it says "JInstaller: :Install: Can't find Joomla XML setup file. The Joomla package cannot be installed through the Extension Manager. Please use the Joomla! Update component to update Joomla." Since the idea was posted some 2-3 years ago, I guess that's not possible anymore. So I'm stuck and don't know what to try next.

I did have a problem before with a Wordpress site installed in the same web hosting space, whose security plugin was a bit overeager and blocked Joomla from updating, but that has been fixed now. Since I had this problem before I installed the other Wordpress site, I don't think it's related.

I also found this page too, and I'll try it when I can, but I really don't want to always have to update manually.

Are there any solutions to this from within Joomla itself? Thanks in advance for help with this.

[leolam]

Is this resolved?

Leo

[ptwd]

Hi Leo. No. I haven't had a chance to try that manual update (the last link in my post), but I'm growing increasingly concerned about the fact that I'm having this much trouble just installing and updating Joomla before I've even added any extensions for testing. Help with this would still be very much appreciated. Thanks!

[sozzled]

I also tried an idea by a commenter to install the full package using Extensions > Install ...

The suggestion that people can use Extensions » Install to [somehow] update Joomla is all wrong. It's a myth; it's a myth—folklore, fairytail, snakeoil medication—that persists. The myth has been debunked but we still read people saying that this is "a way" to update Joomla. Well it just plain doesn't work for J! 3.x.

There is only one recommended way to update Joomla: use the Joomla! Update component.

Yes I know that sometimes people have problems updating Joomla using the recommended method. Some people do encounter problems with AJAX (and there are hundreds of topics on this forum that deal with those situations). And, while every situation is unique and there may not be a universal cure-all, most of these problems begin at home and begin with the hosting environment that people use.

Sometimes the webhosting environment doesn't have a sufficiency of resources required to undertake the update process (e.g. Max POST Size, Max Upload Size, PHP Memory, etc.). I couldn't begin to list the many reasons why people have problems because every website—Joomla and non-Joomla—is different.

One thing that we do understand is that people use this forum and expect help (and we try our hardest to deliver that help) but we're not psychic: there is only one expert in this conversation and it's not me and it's not Leo. We don't know what you know about your website. So, if you are serious about wanting help from total strangers who know nothing about your website, do yourself a favour and read the points written in the pink section of this page and perhaps there's a tip there that will assist all of us.

[leolam]

viewtopic.php?f=621&t=582860 is referred at

Leo

[ptwd]

My post was originally posted to another forum and was moved here by someone else, so if my post didn't do things by the book for this forum, that's why. I did provide background to what I had tried, along with links to sources of ideas I tried and a link to the Post Assistant information I generated for the initial problem and thought that would be enough for this subsequent problem. This whole mess has been an ordeal and I have been doing the best I can to get the help I need, including searching through the entire forum (hence trying the ideas from that one post I provided the link to). Sozzled, if additional information was still needed to help diagnose the problem, it was certainly not for lack of trying on my part.

In any case, I finally tried updating Joomla through Softaculous in cPanel and it worked. So, for now the problem has been solved, although I don't know why Softaculous did the trick when the usual (and even the unusual) attempts failed.

[JAVesey]

In any case, I finally tried updating Joomla through Softaculous...

[sozzled]

Ditto @JAVesey! My thoughts exactly. The problem was caused by misconfigured website; it was "cured" with a "quick fix" (that will probably cause further problems down the track because the original issue was never identified).

We only ask that people use the Forum Post Assistant; we shouldn't have to ask. If people choose to ignore our suggestions and find their own solutions then they might as well not use the forum. Anyway, I sincerely wish the OP good luck and every success for the future.

[ptwd]

Again, as I said, I *did* attach the Post Assistant data for that site in a related thread in the Joomla forum and provided a link to it in this thread, unasked.

[sozzled]

I'm not going to argue this. It was not obvious to me (or others) what you might have done at one time or whether what you did was relevant to this topic. Cross-posting is against the forum rules.

Leo didn't see your FPA report (otherwise he wouldn't have referred to the FPA); I didn't see it either.

/end

[ptwd]

Recap: I created a fresh Joomla site for testing purposes. I was unable to update Joomla from 3.8.4 to 3.8.5 using the Update button that comes up on the Joomla Control Panel, nor via Components > Joomla Update, nor via file upload, nor by reinstalling the whole Joomla package (an idea I found in another thread here that I thought I'd try, since I was desperate; didn't work anyway). The only way I was able to finally update the site was to use the cPanel/Softaculous update feature. Although this was the only thing that worked, others responding in this thread seem to think this is a bad idea and could cause problems down the road.

I have been surprised and dismayed by what has felt like negative feedback in this thread, since I have tried to provide useful information as best I could, even if others apparently missed it. Just to be clear: I never cross-posted this thread (i.e. posting in multiple forums). I had posted a previous problem with the site in General Questions (also an updating problem which I was able to fix; caused by a WordPress plugin on a sister-site installed in the same hosting space). Then, this most recent updating problem happened, which seemed to be only a Joomla problem so I started a fresh post, also in the General Questions forum. However, this post was moved to this forum (where it is now) by someone else who apparently thought it was a more appropriate place for it.

As for the FPA output, I did post the FPA results of the site to the previous thread (3rd message down in that thread). I figured, rather than copy it all into the new post and in case the previous problem might be related to the new one somehow, I would just link to the old post (hence, the 2nd link in my original message at the top of this thread).

In any case, I am providing a fresh output of the FPA, below, following a private suggestion. I'm not sure how helpful it will be at this point, since the site is now up to date, but here it is. It seems I may have to wait for the next Joomla update to see if I will continue to have trouble updating the site.

Constructive comments and assistance would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Wouldn't update except via cPanel

AJAX Loading Error: Not Found

Tried Components > J! Update, and uploading patch file, and even reinstalling J!. Only thing that worked was cPanel update.

Joomla! Instance :: Joomla! 3.8.5-Stable (Amani) 6-February-2018
Joomla! Platform :: Joomla Platform 13.1.0-Stable (Curiosity) 24-Apr-2013
Joomla! Configured :: Yes | Read-Only (444) | Owner: --protected-- . (uid: /gid: ) | Group: --protected-- (gid: ) | Valid For: 3.8
Configuration Options :: Offline: 0 | SEF: 1 | SEF Suffix: 0 | SEF ReWrite: 0 | .htaccess/web.config: Yes | GZip: 0 | Cache: 0 | CacheTime: 15 | CacheHandler: file | CachePlatformPrefix: 0 | FTP Layer: 0 | Proxy: 0 | LiveSite: | Session lifetime: 15 | Session handler: database | Shared sessions: 0 | SSL: 0 | FrontEdit: 1 | Error Reporting: default | Site Debug: 0 | Language Debug: 0 | Default Access: 1 | Unicode Slugs: 0 | dbConnection Type: mysqli | Database Credentials Present: Yes

Host Configuration :: OS: Linux | OS Version: 2.6.32-896.16.1.lve1.4.49.el6.x86_64 | Technology: x86_64 | Web Server: Apache | Encoding: gzip, deflate | Doc Root: --protected-- | System TMP Writable: Yes | Free Disk Space : 208.54 GiB |

PHP Configuration :: Version: 7.0.27 | PHP API: cgi-fcgi | Session Path Writable: Yes | Display Errors: | Error Reporting: 32759 | Log Errors To: error_log | Last Known Error: | Register Globals: | Magic Quotes: | Safe Mode: | Open Base: | Uploads: 1 | Max. Upload Size: 100M | Max. POST Size: 100M | Max. Input Time: 60 | Max. Execution Time: 90 | Memory Limit: 128M

MySQL Configuration :: Version: 5.5.5-10.1.31-MariaDB (Client:mysqlnd 5.0.12-dev - 20150407 - $Id: b5c5906d452ec590732a93b051f3827e02749b83 $) | Host: --protected-- (--protected--) | Collation: latin1_swedish_ci (Character Set: latin1) | Database Size: 5.86 MiB | #of Tables: 72

PHP Extensions :: Core (7.0.27) | date (7.0.27) | libxml (7.0.27) | openssl (7.0.27) | pcre (7.0.27) | zlib (7.0.27) | filter (7.0.27) | hash (1.0) | pcntl (7.0.27) | readline (7.0.27) | Reflection (7.0.27) | SPL (7.0.27) | session (7.0.27) | standard (7.0.27) | cgi-fcgi () | bcmath (7.0.27) | bz2 (7.0.27) | calendar (7.0.27) | ctype (7.0.27) | curl (7.0.27) | dom (20031129) | mbstring (7.0.27) | fileinfo (1.0.5) | ftp (7.0.27) | gd (7.0.27) | gettext (7.0.27) | iconv (7.0.27) | imap (7.0.27) | intl (1.1.0) | json (1.4.0) | exif (7.0.27) | mcrypt (7.0.27) | mysqlnd (mysqlnd 5.0.12-dev - 20150407 - $Id: b5c5906d452ec590732a93b051f3827e02749b83 $) | PDO (7.0.27) | Phar (2.0.2) | posix (7.0.27) | pspell (7.0.27) | SimpleXML (7.0.27) | soap (7.0.27) | sockets (7.0.27) | sqlite3 (7.0.27) | tidy (7.0.27) | tokenizer (7.0.27) | xml (7.0.27) | xmlwriter (7.0.27) | xsl (7.0.27) | zip (1.13.5) | mysqli (7.0.27) | pdo_mysql (7.0.27) | pdo_sqlite (7.0.27) | wddx (7.0.27) | xmlreader (7.0.27) | xmlrpc (7.0.27) | imagick (3.4.3) | timezonedb (2017.2) | ionCube Loader () | Zend OPcache (7.0.27) | Zend Engine (3.0.0) |
Potential Missing Extensions :: mysql | suhosin |
Disabled Functions :: passthru | system | dl | popen | pclose | proc_open | proc_nice | proc_terminate | proc_get_status | proc_close | leak | apache_child_terminate | escape | shellcmd | escapeshellarg | shell_exec | crack_check | crack_closedict | crack_getlastmessage | crack_opendict | psockopen | php_u | symlink | ini_restore | posix_getpwuid | pfsockopen |

Switch User Environment (Experimental) :: PHP CGI: Yes | Server SU: Yes | PHP SU: Yes | Custom SU (LiteSpeed/Cloud/Grid): No
Potential Ownership Issues: Maybe

Core Folders :: images/ (777) | components/ (777) | modules/ (777) | plugins/ (777) | language/ (777) | templates/ (777) | cache/ (777) | logs/ (---) | tmp/ (777) | administrator/components/ (777) | administrator/modules/ (777) | administrator/language/ (777) | administrator/templates/ (777) | administrator/logs/ (777) |

Elevated Permissions (First 10) :: cache/ (777) | images/ (777) | images/banners/ (777) | images/headers/ (777) | images/sampledata/ (777) | media/ (777) | media/com_joomlaupdate/ (777) | media/com_joomlaupdate/js/ (777) | templates/ (777) | tmp/ (777) |

Database statistics :: Uptime: 978544 | Threads: 6 | Questions: 199686436 | Slow queries: 0 | Opens: 365149 | Flush tables: 1 | Open tables: 32767 | Queries per second avg: 204.064 |

Components :: SITE :: com_mailto (3.0.0) 1 | com_wrapper (3.0.0) 1 |
Components :: ADMIN :: com_search (3.0.0) 1 | com_config (3.0.0) 1 | com_cpanel (3.0.0) 1 | com_ajax (3.2.0) 1 | com_installer (3.0.0) 1 | com_tags (3.1.0) 1 | com_associations (3.7.0) 1 | com_redirect (3.0.0) 1 | com_banners (3.0.0) 1 | com_contenthistory (3.2.0) 1 | com_checkin (3.0.0) 1 | com_fields (3.7.0) 1 | com_categories (3.0.0) 1 | com_templates (3.0.0) 1 | com_newsfeeds (3.0.0) 1 | com_postinstall (3.2.0) 1 | com_media (3.0.0) 1 | com_joomlaupdate (3.6.2) 1 | com_admin (3.0.0) 1 | com_content (3.0.0) 1 | com_menus (3.0.0) 1 | com_modules (3.0.0) 1 | com_cache (3.0.0) 1 | com_users (3.0.0) 1 | com_languages (3.0.0) 1 | com_plugins (3.0.0) 1 | com_messages (3.0.0) 1 | com_login (3.0.0) 1 | com_finder (3.0.0) 1 |

Modules :: SITE :: mod_related_items (3.0.0) 1 | mod_banners (3.0.0) 1 | mod_articles_category (3.0.0) 1 | mod_footer (3.0.0) 1 | mod_languages (3.5.0) 1 | mod_articles_categories (3.0.0) 1 | mod_articles_latest (3.0.0) 1 | mod_random_image (3.0.0) 1 | mod_finder (3.0.0) 1 | mod_stats (3.0.0) 1 | mod_wrapper (3.0.0) 1 | mod_articles_news (3.0.0) 1 | mod_tags_popular (3.1.0) 1 | mod_menu (3.0.0) 1 | mod_custom (3.0.0) 1 | mod_login (3.0.0) 1 | mod_syndicate (3.0.0) 1 | mod_tags_similar (3.1.0) 1 | mod_search (3.0.0) 1 | mod_articles_popular (3.0.0) 1 | mod_breadcrumbs (3.0.0) 1 | mod_articles_archive (3.0.0) 1 | mod_feed (3.0.0) 1 | mod_users_latest (3.0.0) 1 | mod_whosonline (3.0.0) 1 |
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[sozzled]

Thank you for the FPA report. There are a couple of matters requiring attention.

Regarding your problems with reporting your situation, I'm not going to argue with the forum moderators who felt that it was more appropriate to locate this topic in the Migrating and Upgrading to Joomla! 3.x forum category; they manage these things as best they can and I won't criticise them for it. What's done is done.

I don't know what other topic you're referring to where you may have posted your FPA report and I'm not going to spend my time searching for it. It's of no real consequence, however, because your other topic may have dealt with a different situation. As you mentioned, the earlier issue involved a conflict with a Wordpress website and, for that reason, I didn't pursue the issues that may have been raised in that topic. The fact is that this topic seems to involve an "AJAX Loading Error" and I'm not sure what is responsible for it.

My first thoughts from reading your FPA report are:

1) The database collation method and character encoding are wrong for J! 3.8.x. They should be utf8_general_ci / utf8 (not latin1_swedish_ci / latin1 that's indicative of a half-completed earlier update before J! 3.5 when the Joomla used the older mechanism). It might be worthwhile to run a database repair or change the collation / character encoding for all your tables to use the newer "version".

2) Modifying the folder/file permissions to 777 is never recommended and exposes your website to the risk it will be taken over / hacked. As the FPA report indicates "Potential Ownership Issues: Maybe". Something you might want to investigate further.

Perhaps someone else might be able to contribute more constructively to your question but I can't identify any single cause for the problems, sorry.

[leolam]

Thanks for the message Wendy. The permissions are complete wrong and they should never exceed (linux box) '755' for folders and '644' for files. Your server is running CGI/FCGI as handler and setting any files and folders to '755' is causing any installer to crash and your site won't run properly. Anything with '777' on a CGI-box will get a 500-error and that is what is happening when you try to run an upgrade or extension installation. Contact you host and ask them to CHMOD all folders to '755' and all files to '644' This is a MUST since you have the frontdoor now wide open and you can get hacked and whacked any moment (777 allows for public writing to your system)


point 1 of Sozzled correct post can be resolved by installing Akeeba Admin tools core https://www.akeebabackup.com/products/admin-tools.html and run the 'change database' feature

So this is all not a Joomla issue but a server issue with wrong files and folder permissions causing your troubles. The server is pretty normal configured so see no issues here (though you should run PHP 7.1 if you have the option (to change in phpMyAdmin)

Also I advise to go to extensions--> manage-->discover and install what might be found. Also run in "manage' the database tool and hit the Fix button

No reason to go to WP...... you (or somebody) just messed up the permissions

Leo

[ptwd]

Hi Leo,

Thank you for getting back to me and for your help. I tried completely reinstalling Joomla again, found many folders with 777 permissions and changed them to 755, confirmed that it's using PHP7 and that there were no Database issues that needed fixing. But then under Warnings it said the PHP temporary folder is not set, which a forum search told me is not the one within Joomla itself (which is set and does exist) but rather with the server setup. I called my web host and they don't see anything about a "session.save_path" variable (/tmp) which is supposed to fix it.

I really appreciate your help, but I'm worn out. I think I'm going to have to give up on Joomla for this site I'm looking to redesign. I have another client with a Joomla site so I may need your help with that down the road, but for now I think I'm about done with Joomla. It's too bad -- when it works it's wonderful, but when it doesn't (which is too often) it's a serious pain in the backside and often difficult to get good support.

Leo, thanks very much for your assistance. I really appreciate your patient, constructive help, which has been refreshing compared to some attitudes I've encountered here. All the best.

[leolam]

You won't solve this with moving to WP or any other software. You should move host since if they do not know what a temporary folder in PHP is than you are hopelessly lost. Again it is not Joomla it is your lousy hosting company that is throwing you off

Cheers

Leo

[fcoulter]

I agree with Leo on this, you would have similar problems running WP with incorrect file and folder permissions, this is not a Joomla issue.

To simplify somewhat, it is to do with how PHP works, for security reasons PHP scripts will not execute when they are writable (at least in CGI mode, which is what your site uses). Any CMS which uses PHP would face similar issues.

To be clear you need to make sure that ALL the files and folders have correct permissions.

Also the fact that your hosts seem not to understand the basics of configuring PHP is worrying.

If you are just wanting to test some extensions really there is no need to use a hosting account at all, you can set up a testing environment on your own PC using XAMPP or WAMP, and install a test Joomla site. I do recommend this, because then you will have complete control over the PHP configuration, and you will probably learn a lot. They are pretty simple to install.

[Jaydot]

I am by no means an expert, but based on my own experience with four sites: if Softaculous manages to do the update where Joomla itself fails, yes, find another hosting provider asap!
Softaculous will come back and bite you, to the point of completely trashing a site with no means of recovery (in the end the provider asked me if I had a backup I could restore!)
My four sites were causing all manner of grief, with all sorts of weird seemingly unrelated errors. About six months ago I finally packed them up with Akeeba, moved to another host, re-installed them with Akeeba Kickstart, and I've never had a problem since.

[sozzled]

We may never hear from @ptwd again however, in making a few closing remarks about this topic, I would will offer these remarks:

1) People ask us these kinds of "I cannot update from version x to version y" questions a lot. Most of the times, the solutions to these problems involve the webhosting environment. While it's possible that there may be issues intrinsic to Joomla, these are rare.

2) We're not here to judge or criticise people for the choices they make. We may criticise the factors that are involved but, as far as possible, I believe our criticisms are evidence-based. I think people need to acknowledge that evidenced-based criticism is not the same as personal bias or a subjective assessment of people's choices. While it may appear (to some) that our criticisms are severe, I think it would be better if they take those criticisms on board and deal with the facts as we see them.

3) There is always only one expert in these situations. The expert is the person asking the quesitons—the only person who has an intimate understanding and awareness of how their websites operate and the site's history over time.

4) I agree totally with other people's assessments in this matter. It doesn't matter if we're discussing J! 3.8.4 or Wordpress or something else. Sometimes these matter require hard work. I understand that work can be tiresome but that's just the nature of the business.

5) Web-based, self-help discussion forums can sometimes provide quick fixes to known problems. More often, however, they merely provide a range of opinions—matters for the questioner to consider—and, as disagreeable as they may seem to the questioner, they're offered in good faith.

I wish the OP good luck in resolving the matter.

[leolam]

Wendy, I am offering you to prove that this experience you have is not Joomla but your hosting provider and server setup. I am offering you free of charges to copy your site to one of our servers and you will see that you have none of these issues on our servers. I just want to keep you happy with Joomla but you seem to have a bit difficulties by digesting what has been said to you by multiple very experienced Joomla users. So again this all is caused by your hosting provider and I am willing to spend a few minutes (it won't take more) to copy your account to our servers and you can play with your site on our servers and see that all works perfectly well with Joomla. No DNS issues nothing , we just copy your site to a 'test-domain' so you see that your installation works with a professional hosting setup and that not Joomla is at fault.

So send me a PM and we go from there

@Moderators: This is not soliciting for work or clients. I want to help a user avoiding a big mistake by leaving Joomla for WP in her case

Leo

[Jaydot]

Wow, @Leolam, what a lovely offer! I hope the OP grabs it with both hands .

My own experience has convinced me that an awful lot of the problems users report are due to inadequate server configuration!

[ptwd]

Thank you, Leo, FCoulter and Jaydot, for your feedback and help. Leo, thank you for your generous offer. I'll message you privately.

[leolam]

Just for all on this thread. The Lady has kindly rejected the offer and has still decided to go with WP. She is now thinking that over-killing server requirements by Joomla are to blame....

So @all please stop replying to this issue since it (and or she) is a lost case.

@ Wendy good luck with WP

@mods: Please lock this thread?

Leo