Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

General questions regarding the use of languages in Joomla! 3.x.

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dagr
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Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby dagr » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:37 pm

Hello,
I'm new to Joomla 3 but have set up multilingual sites in the past using Joomla 1.0 and 1.5. Previously, I used JoomFish to handle all the multilingual stuff and it was a breeze, that is, I don't think I read any documentation - I just installed the component and off I went. Apart from the occasional Joomla/JoomFish incompatibility issue due to an upgrade or 3rd party extension, everything was effortless and worked well.

I am currently reading up on Joomla 3.x's built-in way of handling multiple languages and it does seem quite complicated to set up compared to JoomFish. I also see that Falang is the successor to JoomFish.

For those that have set up Joomla 3.x multilingual sites, what's your take on "native v's Falang"? Is Falang worth it?

Any info appreciated.
Cheers
David.

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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby leolam » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:03 am

dagr wrote:Is Falang worth it?
Every penny. An improved version of the Fish but works the same way with content elements so it is very easy for you to use knowing JF. I avoid the native Joomla system as the plague. Everything double or tripple etc for each language. Horrendous..... We do in our commercial operations all with Falang

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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby Chacapamac » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:13 pm

Personally, I love the core Joomla 3 multi-language.
I create ONLY multilingual site from the 1.5 Joomfish era to now.

The core systems is simply perfect and really easy to control, even with huge site.
The only thing I which will improve, should be a little easier to setup at first but you got tons of nice online tutorials.

No need for Joomfish, Falang that become sucker in your site for life as you cannot uninstalled them without loosing everything. They are simply replacing a beautiful core system that are so easy to work with.

Some language extension, at least can be uninstalled at any time; like, KM Trans, Josetta… They simply supposed to help the core system.

What you do, create first a main category for each language and create category for each important section/menu/component in the first language (don't go crazy with the categories, be logical). Create all your content in this language, Mass/copy & translate your category system to the second language, Mass/copy & translate your content to their second language category, Associates them together & boom. Easy to filter, easy to maintain.

Good Extension developers should ALWAYS built their component with this core system. Avoid the suckers…. If not needed!
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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby BurakB » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:36 pm

Chacapamac wrote:Personally, I love the core Joomla 3 multi-language.
I create ONLY multilingual site from the 1.5 Joomfish era to now.

The core systems is simply perfect and really easy to control, even with huge site.
The only thing I which will improve, should be a little easier to setup at first but you got tons of nice online tutorials.

No need for Joomfish, Falang that become sucker in your site for life as you cannot uninstalled them without loosing everything. They are simply replacing a beautiful core system that are so easy to work with.

Some language extension, at least can be uninstalled at any time; like, KM Trans, Josetta… They simply supposed to help the core system.

What you do, create first a main category for each language and create category for each important section/menu/component in the first language (don't go crazy with the categories, be logical). Create all your content in this language, Mass/copy & translate your category system to the second language, Mass/copy & translate your content to their second language category, Associates them together & boom. Easy to filter, easy to maintain.

Good Extension developers should ALWAYS built their component with this core system. Avoid the suckers…. If not needed!


When going down the Native option but using a template with content do we also create the menu modules for each language? Do we then set the original menu module to the Default language or do we leave its language setting as "ALL"?

I suppose if your answer for the 1st part is to create a menu module for each of them than I suppose we also have to assign them to their respective menus, right?

Thank you.
Burak

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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby Chacapamac » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:26 pm

When going down the Native option but using a template with content do we also create the menu modules for each language?

Yes You need to create a menu module by language — (or the equivalent in the template manager for certain type of template like Rockettheme)

Do we then set the original menu module to the Default language or do we leave its language setting as "ALL"?


You need the “default’ menu module to stay and be assigned to “All” and all other menu module assign to their respective language.
e.g; If you have a french & english site you should have:
1- “Default” menu module assign to “All” languages
2- French menu module obviously assign to “French”
3- English menu module obviously assign to “English”

• You need to associates the french & English with their respective menu items

You have a good tutorial on multi menus creation here —> https://docs.joomla.org/J3.x:Setup_a_Mu ... ting_menus

(Startup of this tutorial here —> https://docs.joomla.org/J3.x:Setup_a_Multilingual_Site)

I suppose if your answer for the 1st part is to create a menu module for each of them than I suppose we also have to assign them to their respective menus, right?


Joomla 3.7 will add a great addition that will simplified the associations process that can be use in Joomla and by third party extensions.
—> https://www.joomlashack.com/blog/tutori ... s-manager/

Good 3rd party extension will start to provide native multilingual capabilities.
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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby biirc » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:55 pm

I'm Stéphane from Falang,

I think you have to use Falang (free or paid it's the same) when your site :
- already existing in 1 language and you want to add more language
- quite the same in the differents language

use native system if your site is very differents in all languages.

Event with the new system of Joomla 3.7 , core Joomla multilanguage is complicated and complicate to maintain.

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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby joomleb » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:19 pm

Hi guys, Hi Chacapamac,
I'm too interested to understand well the result of your experience, you wrote:

Chacapamac wrote:Personally, I love the core Joomla 3 multi-language.
...
What you do, create first a main category for each language and create category for each important section/menu/component in the first language (don't go crazy with the categories, be logical). Create all your content in this language, Mass/copy & translate your category system to the second language, Mass/copy & translate your content to their second language category, Associates them together & boom. Easy to filter, easy to maintain.
...


So, your suggestment is:
1 - "Mass/copy & translate your category system to the second language" = this is the first thing to do activating the Joomla Multilanguage
2 - "Create all your content in this language"
3 - "Mass/copy & translate your content to their second language category"
4 - "Associates them together & boom"
5 - "Easy to filter, easy to maintain"

Do you have any suggestment on how to do that about point 3 and 4 ?
Usually, How many languages are you able to manage ?

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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby Chacapamac » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:19 pm

Do you have any suggestment on how to do that about point 3 and 4 ?


—————————————————————————————————————————————————————
3 - "Mass/copy & translate your content to their second language category"

After creating your base Menus
Something like —>
1-menus.jpg
and created your site in one language.

You can use the powerful “Batch” system integrated with Joomla to duplicate:
a) Your categories
b) Your Menus
c) Your content (articles)

E.G - Batch duplicate categories from English to French:
2-batch-categ.jpg


to your new language
batch-process.jpg


—————————————————————————————————————————————————————
4 - "Associates them together & boom"

For Association you have now choice to do item by item - The system (Joomla or other) have no way to know what associate with what...

Usually, How many languages are you able to manage ?

I see no reel limitation to manage many languages as you can reach easily any associated items at many places in Joomla and now it’s even easier with the new Joomla “Multilingual Associations Components

Look at —> https://www.joomlashack.com/blog/tutori ... s-manager/

Remember that Associations help you manage your multilingual sites and permit the system to know what to show when your user choose a new language.

With Joomla 3.8 up, you have no need for those third party multilingual components.

When understood the core Joomla multilingual system is powerful and extremely easy to use...


IMPORTANT TO FOLLOW THE CORRECT BASIC STRUCTURE:
(For the categories & menus)

E.G CATEGORIES (Menus, Same Idea)

LANGUAGE 1 (Original)
-- Sub-Categ a
-- Sub Categ b
-----Sub-Sub Categ
-- Sub Categ c

LANGUAGE 2
-- Sub-Categ a
-- Sub Categ b
-----Sub-Sub Categ
-- Sub Categ c

LANGUAGE 3
-- Sub-Categ a
-- Sub Categ b
-----Sub-Sub Categ
-- Sub Categ c
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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby infograf768 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:11 am

Since this original post, we now have the multilingual associations component which helps a lot.
Once you have batched copy categories and then articles you have prepared in your first language, open the component and associate + modify the content of the targets. All can be done in the component.
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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby joomleb » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:56 am

Hi guys,
I appreciate too much your replies, many thanks.

There are a lot of components that are not ready for Joomla multilanguage and they advise against it, and suggest Falang. So I'm trying to understand if Can I use Falang (for those components like HikaShop that do not support Joomla standard multilanguage) together with the standard Joomla multilanguage associations (for all the rest of portal).

1 - Please, Do you have any experience on it ?

2 - Do anyone used Speed Translate ? https://www.solidres.com/subscribe/speedy-translate
What do you think about on helping to Translations management ?

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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby infograf768 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:00 am

Unhappily, it is true that many 3pd components are not optimized for the Core multilingual feature. They did not even try...

as for Speedy Translate, as it is not free, we could not test.
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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby joomleb » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:50 pm

infograf768 wrote:Unhappily... ...They did not even try...

And, worse, they have already decided that they will never try

Please, Can I use Falang (for those components like HikaShop that do not support Joomla standard multilanguage) together with the standard Joomla multilanguage associations (for all the rest of joomla articles etc.) ?

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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby infograf768 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:01 am

I do not think that one can use both systems at the same time.
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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby biirc » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:02 am

Hi,

Yes you can use both at the same time.
Most of the time it's used for only a few menu item but you can use it for the whole site
look here at the documenation
https://www.faboba.com/composants/falan ... ement.html

The second part

Stéphane
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Re: Multilingual site: Native Joomla 3.x or Falang?

Postby joomleb » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:47 pm

Hi Stéphane,
really many thanks for reply, I appreciate it too much!


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