SEO rewrite/SEF issues

Discuss Search Engine Optimization in relation to Joomla! 3.x. This forum will also have discussions on SEF/SEO Joomla! 3.x extensions.

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MunchyBugs2
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SEO rewrite/SEF issues

Post by MunchyBugs2 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:43 pm

I recently upgraded to Joomla 3.9, PHP 7.1. Since the upgrade, strange things are happening with regards to SEO settings in the admin. First. if SEO is turned off, everything works fine, except for the fact that a bunch of front end and off-site links don't work because SEO was previously on. If i turn SEO on (and it doesn't seem to matter if rewriting is on or off), the admin page drops the /administrator from the URL when you click anything. So it ends up redirecting to a 404 front end page or a strange front end page that doesn't work. You can manually add back the /administrator and get where you need to be, but if you try to do things like ad an article or menu you get an error message stating that you aren't authorised to do that. I've tried a myriad of things in the .htaccess file and nothing seems to make a difference. Has anyone encountered this? I even contacted the host, dreamhost, to see if there were settings on their server that were overwriting the .htaccess file.

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Webdongle
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Re: SEO rewrite/SEF issues

Post by Webdongle » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:08 pm

http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein

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sozzled
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Re: SEO rewrite/SEF issues

Post by sozzled » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:38 pm

MunchyBugs2 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:43 pm
First. if SEO is turned off ...
There is no setting in Joomla to turn SEO on! There are settings related to SEF URLs (which are a small part of Search Engine Optimisation) but there is no one SEO setting that you can turn on or off. Assuming that you mean SEF URLs when you wrote SEO, I will address the other matters that you've asked about.

MunchyBugs2 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:43 pm
[When the Search Engine Friendly URLs setting is disabled in Global Configuration] ... a bunch of front end and off-site links don't work because SEF was previously on.
What, specifically, do these "bunch" of front-end and off-site links do? Are there other front-end and off-site links that are not affected? Why are some links affected and not others?

MunchyBugs2 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:43 pm
If I [enable the Search Engine Friendly URLs setting in Global Configuration] (and it doesn't seem to matter if rewriting is on or off), the admin page drops the /administrator from the URL when you click anything.
Are you clicking things in the frontend or the backend? What things are you trying to click? Are you using a custom .htaccess file? Maybe you have messed up something in the .htaccess file?

Did you try using Joomla's generic .htaccess (i.e. rename htaccess.txt to .htaccess)? Do you still have the problems that you've mentioned? If you have customised the .htaccess file, what specific things were you attempting to do?
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MunchyBugs2
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Re: SEO rewrite/SEF issues

Post by MunchyBugs2 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:11 pm

What, specifically, do these "bunch" of front-end and off-site links do? Are there other front-end and off-site links that are not affected? Why are some links affected and not others?
The site previously had Global Configuration -> SEF URLs = 'yes' and URL Rewriting = 'yes'. So links were manually made, both on and off-site, to the SEF URLs. If SEF URLs are now turned off, these links are dead. Turning SEF URLs off is the only way to make the admin pages work properly...as I said, with SEF URLs on, something is dropping the /administrator part of the URL and throwing an access error to things like editing a menu. With SEF URLs off, I don't have a problem at all with the admin section but it breaks the website. Make since? I've tried the default .htaccess, edited .htaccess, old .htaccess...everything I can think of to no effect.

I will see if it will let me post the script results...it wasn't letting me before.


Forum Post Assistant (v1.4.5 (Ganymede)) : 9th November 2018 wrote:
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Plugins :: SITE ::
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3rd Party:: Ajax - Arkbootstrap (1.0) 1 | Ajax - Arktemplates (1.0) 1 | Ajax - TreeLink (1.0) 1 | Ajax - Arktypography (1.0) 1 | Ajax - Inline content editing (1.0.2b) 1 | Ajax - Inline Mode State liste (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Ajax (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - About (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - ARK Media (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - HTML5 Audio (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Inline AutoSave co (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Auto Stylesheet Pa (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Browse Browser (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Browse Popup (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Close (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Document (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Email (1.0.1) 1 | ArkEditor - Image Manager (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Link (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Magicline (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - PageBreak (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Paragraph Data Pro (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Pre-loader (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - QuickTable (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - ReadMore (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Inline Save conten (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Styles combo (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Styles Override (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Table Definition (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Toolbar Switcher (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - TreeLink (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - UI Header (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - Versions (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - HTML5 Video (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - XML (1.0) 1 | ArkEditor - XML Templates (1.1) 1 | ArkEvents - ArkEditor acl plug (1.1) 1 | ArkEvents - Auto CSS Filter pl (1.0) 1 | ArkEvents - Autostylesheet Fil (1.0) 1 | ArkEvents - ArkEditor Load Com (1.0) 1 | ArkEvents - ArkEditor configur (1.1) 1 | ArkEvents - ArkEditor core plu (1.0) 1 | ArkEvents - ArkEditor extra pl (1.0) 1 | ArkEvents - ArkEditor Magiclin (1.1) 1 | ArkEvents - Load Mobile Toolba (1.0) 1 | ArkEvents - ArkEditor modal pl (1.1) 1 | ArkEvents - Paste From Word (1.0) 1 | Content - Inline content editi (1.0) 1 | Content - Inline content editi (1.0) 1 | Content - ARK Redirect Plugin (1.0) 1 | Content - Facebook Comments (1.7.21) 0 | AllVideos (by JoomlaWorks) (4.8.0) 1 | AllVideos (by JoomlaWorks) (4.8.0) 1 | plg_content_loadmodulebyid (2.5.0) 1 | plg_content_mooaccordion (1.9) 1 | RokBox (2.0.14) 1 | Content - RokInjectModule (2.1.25) 1 | Content - SocComments (1.3.0) 0 | plg_editors-xtd_modulesanywher (7.6.0) 1 | Button - RokBox (2.0.14) 1 | Button - RokCandy (2.0.2) 1 | Editor - ARKEditor (1.4.3) 1 | plg_editors_codemirror (5.40.0) 1 | plg_editors_jce (2.5.2) 1 | plg_editors_tinymce (4.5.8) 1 | Extension - Arkeditor (1.0) 1 | Extension - Inline editing Plu (1.0) 1 | Inline - Arkeditor (1.0) 1 | Installer - Arkeditor (1.0) 1 | Quick Icon - Ark Editor (3.0.0) 1 | plg_quickicon_jcefilebrowser (2.5.2) 1 | plg_quickicon_gantry5 (5.4.23) 1 | plg_system_advancedmodules (7.8.6) 1 | System - Ark Bootstrap (1.0) 1 | System - Joomla Media Manager (1.0) 1 | System - ArkEditor Modal plugi (1.0) 1 | System - Typography by ARK (1.0) 1 | System - ARK Versions (1.0) 1 | System - ConstantContact (1.0.7) 1 | System - Gantry 4 (4.1.37) 1 | System - Inline content editin (1.0) 1 | System - Inline History (1.0) 1 | System - ARK k2ExtraFields (1.0) 1 | plg_system_modulesanywhere (7.6.0) 1 | PLG_SYS_MOOTABLE (1.1.2) 0 | plg_system_nnframework (100.0.0PRO) 0 | System - RokBooster (1.1.17) 0 | System - RokBox (2.0.14) 1 | System - RokCandy (2.0.2) 1 | System - RokCommon (3.2.6) 1 | System - RokExtender (2.0.0) 1 | System - RokSprocket (2.1.25) 1 | System - Reset SEF Base (3.0) 1 | System - SocComments (1.3.0) 0 | plg_system_gantry5 (5.4.23) 1 | plg_system_regularlabs (18.11.3959) 1 | VMPAYMENT_MONEYBOOKERS (2.0.6) 1 | plg_gantry5_preset (5.4.23) 0 |
Templates Discovered :: wrote:Templates :: SITE :: atomic (2.5.0) 1 | beez3 (3.1.0) 1 | beez5 (2.5.0) 1 | beez_20 (2.5.0) 1 | protostar (1.0) 1 | rt_ionosphere (1.3) 1 | rt_vermilion (1.2) 1 | rt_vermilion (1.2) 1 | rt_vermilion (1.8) 1 |
Templates :: ADMIN :: bluestork (2.5.0) 1 | hathor (3.0.0) 1 | isis (1.0) 1 |

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Webdongle
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Re: SEO rewrite/SEF issues

Post by Webdongle » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:30 pm

This site has been migrated (at some point) from J2.5.x
You have folders 777 ... should be 755
You have 3 versions of the vermilion Template ... all of which show as the default.
Ark editor is out of date
@sozzled will likely be able to spot other things that are wrong

I suggest
Install Joomla without sample data and use https://extensions.joomla.org/extension/j2xml/ to transfer your data. Then install your 3rd party extensions.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein

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sozzled
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Re: SEO rewrite/SEF issues

Post by sozzled » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:38 pm

MunchyBugs2 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:11 pm
The site previously had Global Configuration -> SEF URLs = 'yes' and URL Rewriting = 'yes'. So links were manually made, both on and off-site, to the SEF URLs.
Meaning what? Did you use absolute or relative URLs when you constructed these links? If you used absolute URLs then it's possible that the links won't work as a conseqence of disabling Use Search Engine Friendly URLs in the Global Configuration settings.

MunchyBugs2 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:11 pm
Turning SEF URLs off is the only way to make the admin pages work properly...as I said, with SEF URLs on, something is dropping the /administrator part of the URL and throwing an access error to things like editing a menu.
The SEO Settings part of Global Configuration (there are five settings here) should have no effect w.r.t. Joomla site administration functions but they may require changes to be made in .htaccess (or its analogue on other webserver software) to make them work.

MunchyBugs2 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:11 pm
With SEF URLs off, I don't have a problem at all with the admin section but it breaks the website. Make since? I've tried the default .htaccess, edited .htaccess, old .htaccess...everything I can think of to no effect.
As I wrote earlier, if you've used absolute URL references (instead of relative URL references) then you may have problems. I don't understand what you mean by "off-site links" but, if you are referring to URLs that exist on websites external to your own, you would be using absolute URLs to those things anyway and it's irrelevant what SEO settings are deployed on your website.

Are you sure that you've tried everything? Does your website's file system exist within a sub-folder of another Joomla website? Have you tried renaming the .htaccess file to something like htaccess.old? What happens when you do that?

Why do you still have J! 2.5 extensions installed on your J! 3.x website? Why do you have some folders with 777 permissions? Have you updated all your extensions so that they're compatible with J! 3.9? Have you seen the issues relating to Ark products (and RokCandy and RokSproket)? The database collation and character encoding are wrong for versions of Joomla after J! 3.5. Old versions of eXtplorer are known as the source of sites being hacked; if you don't use it then get rid of it or, if you do use it, uninstall it and use another tool like FileZilla or your webhost's file manager in cPanel. When did you last update Akeeba?
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Re: SEO rewrite/SEF issues

Post by MunchyBugs2 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:04 pm

This website is being replaced in a few months so I really just need to get it working temporarily. If I can fix this, I can try to address some other issues as I can until it is replaced. If I can't fix this, there is no reason to mess with other aspects of the site; I'll just ask them to accelerate their changeover.

The website does not exist in a subfolder of another Joomla site...it exists in the root directory of the domain on a shared host (dreamhost).
When I rename .htaccess the site breaks; Internal Server Error.
All versions of plugins, templates, and Gantry are up to date.
I don't know what the database collation and character encoding being wrong means; all update paths were followed from the time the site was initially built as per Joomla guidelilnes as best as I can do (I'm a filmmaker, not a webdeveloper, trying to help a non-profit).

I'm aware that the SEF settings should not effect the admin pages, but they do in this case and I have no idea why.

I'll avoid explaining in more detail, but I'll just say that I need SEF and rewriting to be on based on past decisions by other people.

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sozzled
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Re: SEO rewrite/SEF issues

Post by sozzled » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:29 pm

MunchyBugs2 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:04 pm
When I rename .htaccess the site breaks; Internal Server Error.
This will happen if you have SEF URL rewriting on (which you do). I am attaching a default Joomla htaccess.txt file (from a J! 3.9.0 website); upload it to your file system and rename it as .htaccess.

MunchyBugs2 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:04 pm
I don't know what the database collation and character encoding being wrong means
See viewtopic.php?f=706&t=959475#p3514639 for my thoughts on this matter.

MunchyBugs2 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:04 pm
I'm aware that the SEF settings should not effect the admin pages, but they do in this case and I have no idea why.
As I've written previously, these settings require .htaccess to make them work properly: see Enabling Search Engine Friendly (SEF) URLs in Joomla's documentation.

Are you using Modern or Legacy routing: see viewtopic.php?f=9&t=954795#p3492928. ??? The problems that you are now having with 404 "page not found" errors are unlikely to be a consequence of updating to J! 3.9.0. There are many other reasons (including the retention of old, outdated, not-maintained, suspicious or vulnerable extensions) that may have a combined impact on the operation of your website.

The website needs a major overhaul and clean-out.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
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If you think I’m wrong then say “I think you're wrong.” If you say “You’re wrong!”, how do you know?

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Re: SEO rewrite/SEF issues

Post by MunchyBugs2 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:42 pm

Thanks for your response. I have previously reviewed the Joomla SEF guide and contacted my web host to make sure there is nothing beyond the .htaccess that I need to concern myself with. The .htaccess I was using was the same as the one you sent. I replaced it anyway to no effect. The 404 error I get is because /administrator is stripped from the /administrator/ URL. If you put it back it works...but I get an error stating that I'm not authorised to make certain changes and that error is not there if SEF is off. I have messed with all of the settings, both indvidually and together, in the .htaccess file. i've turned off all administrator 3rd party plugins, and still can't get it to stop stripping /administrator from the URL.

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Re: SEO rewrite/SEF issues

Post by Webdongle » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:12 pm

MunchyBugs2 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:04 pm
...
All versions of plugins, templates, and Gantry are up to date. ...
No they are not!!!
Akeeba (4.1.1) ... current version is 6.2.1
JCE (2.5.2) ,,, current version is 6.3.33
com_gantry5 (5.4.23) ... current version is 5.4.26

You have far too much wrong with your site to patch it like a patchwork quilt.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein


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