Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

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PhilWest
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Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby PhilWest » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:56 am

A website I administer has recently shown disturbing behaviour. Public visitors to the site can see and access information which should only be visible to registered (and logged in) club members. Research within this forum suggests that this problem has been seen before but I was unable to find any definitive solution, at least not one that worked for me.

The site was recently upgraded to version 3.7.4 if that is of any importance.

As posting URLs seems to be an issue here, at least for a newbie to the forum, I will just point you to the website for East Kent Advanced Motorcyclists. I have left a partial restricted menu in place to demonstrate the problem I'm facing.

Any hints, clues or tips to help resolve this would be much appreciated as I have club members who are concerned over the security of the site and not currently being able to use the various interactive sections that I have had to disable.

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Per Yngve Berg
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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby Per Yngve Berg » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:48 am

1) is the Guest Group a sibling of Registered i.e. a child of Public?

2) Does the Guest Access level contain the Guest Group only?

3) In the Options of User Manager, is the "Guest User Group set to "Guest"

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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby PhilWest » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:31 am

Per Yngve Berg wrote:1) is the Guest Group a sibling of Registered i.e. a child of Public?

2) Does the Guest Access level contain the Guest Group only?

3) In the Options of User Manager, is the "Guest User Group set to "Guest"

Thank you Per.

1. There is no Guest group as such. Visitors to the site are initially in the Public group until they log in. Should I create a separate Guest group; though surely this would just be a duplicate of the Public group? The Public group is the only top level group.

2. The Registered level is a child of Public - which is the default setting. There are further child levels of Registered which are also showing to Public visitors.

3. Guest user group is set to Public.

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Per Yngve Berg
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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby Per Yngve Berg » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:41 am

Your site must be an upgrade from before the Guest Group was standard.

https://docs.joomla.org/How_do_you_hide_something_from_logged_in_users%3F

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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby PhilWest » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:54 pm

Thanks Per.

I created a Guest group (which also becomes a child of Public) and changed access accordingly. The result was no different than having everything set to Public. This is implied in the article you linked, where the point was to hide content from public view with a guest login. I already have an equivalent to guest login which is the standard Registered group; I also use several child groups of the Registered group to further restrict access to certain members. This all worked fine until just recently. Now it shows all menu items regardless of the access level set for any particular menu, module or article.

I also have a sandbox site as a sub-domain and this problem isn't showing up there despite having been upgraded to the latest version of Joomla (version 3.7.4) at the same time as the main site. Access levels set are identical on both sites!

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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby sozzled » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:25 am

PhilWest wrote:I created a Guest group (which also becomes a child of Public) and changed access accordingly.
This suggests that you did not have a Guest group; the Guest usergroup is included as standard within Joomla. If you needed to add a Guest group—where it did not exist before—there are a few thoughts we may have to address the problem(s) that you now have. It would help to know what you started with in order to advise the direction you need to go now.
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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby Per Yngve Berg » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:04 am

I don't know what you mean with a "guest login". Guests are visitors that have not logged in to the site.
Registered users are those that have logged in with a username and password.

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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby PhilWest » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:42 am

sozzled wrote:
PhilWest wrote:I created a Guest group (which also becomes a child of Public) and changed access accordingly.
This suggests that you did not have a Guest group; the Guest usergroup is included as standard within Joomla.

I don't think it is, or not any more at any rate. The default user groups are: -
Public
- Manager
- - Administrator
- Registered
- - Author
- - - Editor
- - - - Publisher
- Super User

All groups are subordinate to Public, and there is no Guest group. Anyway this is getting away from the point that somehow some subordinate groups have become visible to guests (Public Group) without having to log in. This has meant that club members can no longer access a member's only area as I have had to disable the members menu as a security precaution.

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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby toivo » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:20 am

PhilWest wrote:I don't think it is, or not any more at any rate. The default user groups are:
As pointed out by @sozzled, a freshly installed Joomla 3.x creates the user group Guest under Public as standard.

Click the Help button under Users: Groups and you will see the screenshot of the default user groups: https://docs.joomla.org/Help37:Users_Groups

Which selection is shown in Users: Options - Guest User Group? It is Guest by default.
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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby PhilWest » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:59 am

toivo wrote:
PhilWest wrote:I don't think it is, or not any more at any rate. The default user groups are:
As pointed out by @sozzled, a freshly installed Joomla 3.x creates the user group Guest under Public as standard.

Click the Help button under Users: Groups and you will see the screenshot of the default user groups: https://docs.joomla.org/Help37:Users_Groups

Which selection is shown in Users: Options - Guest User Group? It is Guest by default.

I stand corrected regarding the Guest group. If the Guest group does not exist, or has been deleted, then the Guest User Group option reverts to Public. This was one of the checks I made early on in my investigation as it had been mentioned in another post that I came across. As an aside, it seems to me that the Guest group is redundant in any case if it is no more than a duplicate of the Public group!

This particular site has been in existence for a number of years and has, as a result, been upgraded quite frequently. I think the site was last completely refreshed with the advent of Joomla 2.5 so it is quite possible, I suppose, that the SQL database may have become scrambled along the way as further updates were installed - and this is not something I wish to get involved with as it is way beyond my level of expertise. It's looking increasingly likely that this site is going to have to be rebuilt from scratch - something I'm not particularly looking forward to!

Thanks for your help guys. I'll keep an eye on this thread just in case someone can actually come up with a definitive solution but in the meantime I'm going find a nice wall to bang my head against!!

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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby sozzled » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:16 am

Before you splatter your brains against the wall, the Guest group is not unnecessary ... but it's also not the "smart thing" to remove the standard/default features of Joomla if you don't know how they're used.

Public means show "this" to everyone whether they're logged in or not logged in. Registered means show "this" only to people after they've logged in. Guest means show "this" to people who have not logged-in.

For example, it might be good to display a menu item for Guests that says "Login here" and show a menu item for Registered that says "Logout here". Get the idea?

Anyway, it's fairly easy to add the Guest group back. If it's just restoring the Guest group functionality, I don't think it's necessary to rebuild the site from scratch.
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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby toivo » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:22 am

PhilWest wrote:it seems to me that the Guest group is redundant in any case if it is no more than a duplicate of the Public group!
As explained above, the Guest group serves a purpose because contents like modules and menu items set at the Guest viewing access level are shown and accessible to visitors who are not logged in.

Once a visitor logs in, those modules and menu items disappear, whereas Public modules, menu items and other content items continue to be visible.

The following tutorial explains this and also shows how to create the Guest user group and the corresponding viewing access level: https://docs.joomla.org/J3.x:Access_Con ... nd_Modules
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Re: Guest Users are shown Restricted Menu

Postby PhilWest » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:52 am

Okay, I'll give it a go and add back the Guest group and see if I can make it work.


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