Please stop changing class names between Joomla versions.

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jhallshape5
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Please stop changing class names between Joomla versions.

Post by jhallshape5 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:23 pm

Shape5 dev here. Between major Joomla releases class names are constantly changed.

Again now with Joomla 4 more class names changed. I already posted about this months ago but as I update our framework to Joomla 4 some of our class names no longer will get styled due to this.

For example for pagination:

Joomla 3.x = ul.pager
Joomla 4 = ul.pagination

Since we set the buttons with a color in our template via php this no longer works. We would literally have to touch each and every template. Instead we just have to create new CSS in our framework to style these with bland black backgrounds and white button text.

Its sad to see the community still hasn't learned after all these years. At Shape5 we have 11 years now developing with Joomla. The biggest thing that we see killing Joomla is lack of backward compatibility. The smallest, most pointless and careless changes, like changing names in functions and classes destroy any backward compatibility. Its extremely frustrating.

In Joomla 4 this continues and Joomla will continue to decline into being with a super tiny user base or just a failed project. Neither are good and its declined so much already I'm not sure if it can be saved.

Jonah

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effrit
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Re: Please stop changing class names between Joomla versions.

Post by effrit » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:59 pm

i am agree.
we must find the balance between 'frozen' WP and constantly changing_on_every_update today Joomla.
i think it was bad idea with small changes in every update to merge 3.x to 4.x because instead one big migration we have errors on every update now and i am not sure what final 3.10 -> 4.0 migration will be 'one click'.
Joomla today is not for users but for developers and admins only, because if you press 'update' you must be ready to go on forum next.

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Webdongle
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Re: Please stop changing class names between Joomla versions.

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:43 pm

effrit wrote:... we have errors on every update now and i am not sure what final 3.10 -> 4.0 migration will be 'one click'.....
You might have but myself and many others haven't.

Here are just a few reasons why users have problems updating.
  • 3rd party devs not testing their extensions with Joomla release candidates.
  • Users installing Joomla with 3rd party quick/template installs instead of the Joomla full package.
  • Bad server configuration.
  • Users leaving updating until several releases after their current release.
  • A hacked site.
  • etc.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein

mbabker
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Re: Please stop changing class names between Joomla versions.

Post by mbabker » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:45 pm

Well the other option is to remove all the Bootstrap 4 work and templates and plug the Bootstrap 2.3 templates back into the 4.0 branch and basically never update Bootstrap in core. Do realize these class names aren't because someone decided "oh, hey, we're going to change class names because why not". It's because the core UI framework is designed around whatever the default templates are for the release, which change with every major release series, and consistently have different authors with different approaches using different frameworks.
So long and thanks for all the fish.

Manually updating Joomla? See https://gist.github.com/mbabker/d7bfb4e ... 3607f89281

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effrit
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Re: Please stop changing class names between Joomla versions.

Post by effrit » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:52 am

Webdongle wrote: You might have but myself and many others haven't.
The reasons you wrote have not connections to errors in built-in extension like routing, tags, menu system and even random image module.
Do you understand how not experienced customer feel when his new site broken just after first update?
It produce reputation problem and migration to WP - very friendly platform for customer, not developer.

I feel like Joomla is playground for developers now, but it suppose to be the stable platform for both developers and customers.
I think new functions and syntax changes must be accumulated in medium, for example, .5 and .0 releases and this decrease the stress to developers like @jhallshape5 and customers.
Otherwise we will loose our "tiny user base".

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Webdongle
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Re: Please stop changing class names between Joomla versions.

Post by Webdongle » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:41 am

@effrit
If you don't like the way Joomla is developed you can help by bug fixing. Or you can use another cms that you like.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein

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effrit
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Re: Please stop changing class names between Joomla versions.

Post by effrit » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:00 am

@Webdongle, i am helping a lot on local forum, so i am part of community.
But it's not about bug fixing, it's about development strategy and about support and expand users and developers base.
If you have many extensions as developer it's not helped you to support if EVERY update can broke them not because of bug but because "we improve / add something".
And as user / site owner it's the same bad things for you, because in most scenario you dont want this improvements but just want your site working and update smoothly.
It's not only my opinion, it's something i heard from developers and users.
"Or you can use another cms that you like." - this is not an answer. I am telling about not stop progress but make it more predictable and turn-based.

jhallshape5
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Re: Please stop changing class names between Joomla versions.

Post by jhallshape5 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:29 pm

Webdongle wrote:@effrit
If you don't like the way Joomla is developed you can help by bug fixing. Or you can use another cms that you like.

An attitude like this does not help Joomla adoption rate.

I've been here 11 years and myself and others pointing out issues are just trying to help the CMS they like. My company and family has lived off Joomla. I don't have the option of going to another CMS with a flooded market and/or starting all over from ground zero.


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