About the design of the administration? Topic is solved

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:46 pm

Confusion Here ????

@kashar you are saying;
Hey, the project will be uploaded here in the official repo https://github.com/joomla-projects/j4adminui

And, later it will be merged with the Joomla 4 core.
This mean that YOUR administrative template to be THE ONE that will be powering Jooomla 4 when it become public ?

Can you or any Joomla Dev in charge confirm this ?
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:09 pm

Chacapamac wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:46 pm
Confusion Here ????

@kashar you are saying;
Hey, the project will be uploaded here in the official repo https://github.com/joomla-projects/j4adminui

And, later it will be merged with the Joomla 4 core.
This mean that YOUR administrative template to be THE ONE that will be powering Jooomla 4 when it become public ?

Can you or any Joomla Dev in charge confirm this ?
Yes, that was the statement of the production team. Please check this statement https://www.facebook.com/jkawshar/posts ... 3673762360

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by gws » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:15 pm

@kawshar, I had no idea this was going to be the template used in the J4 release. Good luck to you.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:18 pm

To my question :
This mean that YOUR administrative template to be THE ONE that will be powering Jooomla 4 when it become public ?
@kawshar said:
Yes, that was the statement of the production team. Please check this statement https://www.facebook.com/jkawshar/posts ... 3673762360
In this post, Marco Dings said
Marco Dings (Joomla! 4 Liaison of Joomla Production Leadership Team)
https://developer.joomla.org/news/621-j ... luZ3MiXQ==
As some of you may or may not know this initiative is endorsed by the production department. With that comes a long list of requirements that need to be met. These requirements are not different from those imposed on other contributions, with the exception that there is a requirement that deals with support. Some requirements are template specific and particularly difficult (to name one accessibility). These requirements were announced in the earlier posts.
The ultimate goal would be to ship this initiative as part of core distribution! (as such worries about core hacks are not warranted)
Contrary to what the name suggests this build is on alfa11 and Kawshar and his team are moving that to yesterdays Alfa-12.
after that it will be migrated to the "joomla projects" github repository.
With migrating to https://github.com/joomla-projects/j4adminui we hope to
1) enable all of you to do testing and give feedback through github issues so we get stuff centralized
2) enable all of you enthusiast to start contributing in fixing things an take some load of kawshars team
Having said that there is nothing wrong about critical feedback please be mindful and constructive.
In short, (what I understand?) :
• kashar initiative is endorsed by the production department.
• A long list of requirements need to be met to become the official administrative template.
• The ultimate goal would be to ship this initiative as part of core distribution!

What I understand here is that it’s endorsed but need to meet many requirements before be merge to joomla core

What I don’t understand and not clear for me is that part of Marco’s post????
Contrary to what the name suggests this build is on alfa11 and Kawshar and his team are moving that to yesterdays Alfa-12.
after that it will be migrated to the "joomla projects" github repository.
I download and test Joomla Alpha 11 and the newest Alpha 12 and no sign of Kawshar Template ????
joomla-alpha12.jpg
Still not sure, what to think about kawshar template ???

Can somebody in charge precise ?

=========================================================

By the way, at the level of design, on Alpha 12, I can see ameliorations to the original design.

Not to much is needed here to make a good template.

• Remain the same somewhat cold colours (I can live with it)
• Remain the use of these colours in the template that still don’t help to get uniformity and prioritize the template elements and sections.
• Remain error of visual design uniformity with the background of the “Global” “Cache” & “Global Configuration” — Should not be different that other infos block (create visual confusion)

Only small details.

Happy to see that some of my ideas was implemented from my “Re-Skinning” of the same interface here:
Note: I will go with even more warmer colours — I will make an example...
Dashboard.jpg
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Last edited by Chacapamac on Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by mbabker » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:21 pm

Ahh, great to see that 4.0 is becoming Joomla's version of Windows Vista, completely unfocused and development derailed repeatedly.

Does anyone else not see a problem with the fact that 4.0 has had its release essentially delayed for at least 3 years because of a freakin' template? How does that not make Joomla look like a joke compared to Drupal and WordPress which continue to make major iterative improvements to their platforms and release them in a timely manner?

At best, 4.0 will be as successful as 1.6. I think we all remember how well that went.

Stop derailing development. Actually, I'll take it a step further. Stop developing the 4.0-dev branch as it is today, re-branch from 3.x, only merge the completed features (because there is a lot of half complete crap in the repo right now), and make a stable 4.0. Or, just spend another 3 years building 8 different templates.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:48 pm

@kawshar, saddly, so far, I’m far from impress from your template design.

From my experience in interface design I have to qualified your design.
(Hope it help you to improved it ;) )

(I don’t want to be rude here, I just want to give a honest appreciation).

In fact I see NO design at all, no focus, no direction, this look more like a functionality diagram BEFORE receiving it’s final skin.

Really Sorry kawshar.

The ACTUAL Joomla 4 Alpha 12 interface is GOOD and Just need a bit of love

as mbabker said,
Let’s focus on a fast Joomla 4 public release and find solution that don’t reinvent the wheel in the last minutes.
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by bruno28 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:57 pm

kawshar wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:05 pm

Please download the installable version from here https://github.com/kawshar/backend-temp ... .0-alpha12

For Joomla (Y)
Hello kawshar

I have installed your package and I like it

But I don't find where I can set French language for Content language

Can you tell me where to find Content language

Thank you in advance
Cordialement, Bruno28 :)
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by bruno28 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:31 pm

Hello kawshar

The popup message at the bottom right is displayed too short, we don't have enough time to read all the message
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:04 pm

bruno28 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:57 pm
kawshar wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:05 pm

Please download the installable version from here https://github.com/kawshar/backend-temp ... .0-alpha12

For Joomla (Y)
Hello kawshar

I have installed your package and I like it

But I don't find where I can set French language for Content language

Can you tell me where to find Content language

Thank you in advance
I think the language packs are not compatible with Joomla 4 yet. But, it should be under extensions menu then install.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:08 pm

Chacapamac wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:48 pm
The ACTUAL Joomla 4 Alpha 12 interface is GOOD and Just need a bit of love
No need to sorry man. I understand. People have different tests. For example, I saw your website in your signature that describes you don't have any interest in the design trend.

I can argue with you but I am not going to do that. Well, the initiative I have taken does not hamper the Joomla 4 development pace. I created a team that designed and developed everything. If people think that this is a good idea to have a trendy Joomla 4 with UX improvement then I don't see any reason not to accept it in the core.

Thanks

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Webdongle » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:54 pm

@mbabker
Please sit down, take a deep breath, hold on to something and be prepared for a shock. I actually agree with you :D
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:47 pm

Dear kawshar, the website in my signature is a Joomla 1.5 not even use for probably 15 years. At that time and even before, I made websites for big company in html and frames (remember those...)

At that time I was making websites as a personal passion and it was also a normal extension of my work in design and marketing where I work for more than 25 years in 2 big marketing agency in Quebec, Canada for clients like Salomon, Domtar, Fujii, Bell, Hockey Canada, and many more big corporations. Before my retirement I was an Artistic Director & Marketing Consultant with a team of more than 25 designers, marketing specialists and at the end web designers.

Retired now, I just restart slowly in my website passion and I’m back on track, I will soon release a newer web site to replace my old sad one.

For around 5 years now, I’m experimenting with the newer versions of Joomla (and other CMS) and drag & Drop editors. I want to give to my next customers the best CMS system in 2019 and this is for that reason that Joomla internal interface is crucial to me.

You can see a test site here —> http://www.graf-test.ca/graf2
Where you can see in the portfolio section some of my work and older web sites that I made.

I’m also working on few newer project (mostly friends), like https://etakuma.ca and http://www.graf-test.ca/pulvoy2/index.php/fr/

You should pay attention kawshar, this is for your own good, what you are presenting is not a good design and, if adopted, will damage the release of Joomla 4. Your design, as is, will be a serious blow for the survival of the BEST CMS OUT THERE.
As I was saying I really see no “Design” in your presentation. A whitish page with little blocks of whatever content all hover the place. This is not a serious interface for as serious CMS.

What is actually in Joomla Alpha 12 is good and need little details to be even better.
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:56 pm

@Chacapamac I am sorry if it hurts you. But, our design has nothing to do with Joomla release so far. No one waited for me, we never ask anyone to contribute to the development and design process. We designed and developed the whole idea just in less than two months.

Well, as I said, if people love the new design and production wants to adopt then it will be merged with the Joomla core. Or, you have your Joomla 4 already :)

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:38 pm

Well, Well kawshar, I’m in your interface right now and I can said that I should withdraw my critics.
:-[

Only fools do not change their minds (and lemmings)...

I think, I was to focus on what was in the Official Alpha release.

It’s actually not bad at all. :D
— It make a big difference viewing it in image and videos than experience it.

What I find in few minutes....
• The overall feeling is fresh and light
• The menus sections are demark from the page (infos) — (maybe not enough ?...)
• The icons choice are cool
• Colours are fun and bright

I will come back to this, I’m actually impress, this is better, even if you drill down, compare to what is in the actual Official Alpha.

I’m turning around and try to help that design.

Surprise, Surprise. :pop
Last edited by Chacapamac on Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:26 pm

@kawshar, what is the best way to override your admin template css ?

• I see that you work with a minified version of css —> template.min.css

Can I use —> template.css and replace the minified version in use ?
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by bruno28 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:12 am

kawshar wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:05 pm

I think the language packs are not compatible with Joomla 4 yet. But, it should be under extensions menu then install.
Hello kawshar

I could install French pack but I can't find where to change content language or admin language

Sorry to insist but I want to test this template to be familiar with it

joomla alpha 12 dev.png
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:14 pm

Chacapamac wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:38 pm
Well, Well kawshar, I’m in your interface right now and I can said that I should withdraw my critics.
:-[

Only fools do not change their minds (and lemmings)...

I think, I was to focus on what was in the Official Alpha release.

It’s actually not bad at all. :D
— It make a big difference viewing it in image and videos than experience it.

What I find in few minutes....
• The overall feeling is fresh and light
• The menus sections are demark from the page (infos) — (maybe not enough ?...)
• The icons choice are cool
• Colours are fun and bright

I will come back to this, I’m actually impress, this is better, even if you drill down, compare to what is in the actual Official Alpha.

I’m turning around and try to help that design.

Surprise, Surprise. :pop
Thank you very much.

Well, all icons are handcrafted and we developed a nodejs script to convert svg to duotone icon font.

The team will upload the package to the Joomla official release this week. From then, everyone can contribute :)

Thanks again.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:16 pm

Chacapamac wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:26 pm
@kawshar, what is the best way to override your admin template css ?

• I see that you work with a minified version of css —> template.min.css

Can I use —> template.css and replace the minified version in use ?
Use custom.css file if you need. Just create a custom.css file and put it to the CSS folder.

Thanks

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by kawshar » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:18 pm

bruno28 wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:12 am
kawshar wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:05 pm

I think the language packs are not compatible with Joomla 4 yet. But, it should be under extensions menu then install.
Hello kawshar

I could install French pack but I can't find where to change content language or admin language

Sorry to insist but I want to test this template to be familiar with it


joomla alpha 12 dev.png
Click on the install menu under extensions. Or, go to this URL administrator/index.php?option=com_installer&view=languages

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by bruno28 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:16 am

Click on the install menu under extensions. Or, go to this URL administrator/index.php?option=com_installer&view=languages
Sorry if I am not clear enough

I could install french pack with success

But I can't find where to set French as content language nor administration language

langage joomla 4.png
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Magnytu2 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:16 am

Hello @Bruno28, it misses the link to go to the default language management but you can go by adding after administrator / index.php?option=com_languages&view=installed
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Mr. Wimpy » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:15 pm

Let's give the templates a name so we know which one we are talking about:
Blue Atum = template shipped with all alphas (because of the blue sidemenu)
White Atum = redesign by kawshar (the white sidemenu)
Dark Atum = Darkmode Atum, please...

First little bit about me so you understand why I wrote this piece
I am a webdesigner with really bad eyes (one eye has 20% vision, the other is "just" lazy :p ). I work on a 27" monitor and use ctrl+scroll (macOS) to zoom the entire screen. This means parts of the screen are not visible, outside the view, and I move the mouse to see the rest of the screen.

When I lose my pointer I go to the topleft corner of the screen to find it again, topleft is the only corner where the pointer is still visible. In all other corners the pointer will move off the screen.

If objects, like buttons, columns and messages etc, are not placed or designed logically I either need to do a lot of mouse movements to find them (and lose my pointer along the way, yes that sometimes happens) or I'll miss them completely.

As it stands now, and with all its imperfections, I prefer Blue Atum.
For me zoomed in it just works better.

LOCATION OF BUTTONS
Both Atums have the navigation on the left.

Blue Atum places the important buttons ("New", "Save") on the left as well. So are the important fields ("Title", "Article text". And everything under the tabs. Everything is close together and fits into my zoomed in view. And they are closer to my topleft corner if I ever lose my pointer.

Unlike White Atum.
In worst case scenario I click in the navigation on the left, have to move all the way to the right (remember I'm zoomed in) to click on "New", move back to the left to enter the form fields, move again to the right to click "Save".

LOCATION OF MESSAGES
The placement of messages is also better in Blue Atum: At the top.
Sure the messages may hover over the content or when you have multiple messages the width changes when you close one.... Make the widths of all messages the same, please.

Still better than the White Atums message location: the bottom right corner. Really!?! Could you put it any further away? Did you remember why I believe the topleft corner is important to some people?

J3 Isis displayed messages perfectly, imho: at the top, above the content, equal widths.

LISTS
Another thing where I believe Blue Atum is better is in the lists.
Blue Atum uses the same icons for statuses everywhere. They are clear and distinct: i.e. Green checkmark, grey X. And, in most lists, they are in front of the title. The rows are highlighted on hover, making it easy to read and and follow. Columns are pretty much in order of importance.

In White Atum, the icons are different in different list, and in different locations. Some are in front, like Category list and menu items list.
But on the article list it's close to the back. I have to move my mouse to the right, past the category column (???), I can no longer see what the article title is. I might just look at the status of a different article, or worse change the status of a different article. The statuses only have a small coloured dot (with text).
PS: Who believed that the ArticleID is so important that is should be in the first column? You (I) hardly ever use them. All the other lists the IDs are in the last column.
PS2: Where is the Featured icon/column for articles?

FORM COLUMNS
This is better in White Atum. (Yes, it's not all bad) All the fields for the options are in 1 column, looks clean and easy to use.

Blue Atum has some in 2 columns, some in 3. That looks messy and is hard to work with. When I'm zoomed in I'll miss a column. I believe you can have 2 columns, but the fieldsets need to be in 1 column. See Images & Links tab.

SOME OTHER DESIGN NOTES

In both Atums some form fields take the whole width of the window. That looks weird, especially on a 27" monitor, i.e. Modules > Main menu: Start and End level.

In both Atums: can the quickicons be less wide. Especially on really big screens.
In Blue Atum, without counter, I could go to 20% and it still looked good.
White Atum has issues with quickicons, so I didn't try...

In White Atum, the quickicon is no link, you'll have to click the text under it.
That's not how icons generally work. Nowadays, people click/tab on icons, not the text... It's also easy to missclick the "View all..." and the "+"-sign.
Displaying quickicons without counters just shows an empty box.

White Atum is so light/bright. Not just the white, but also the blue, the light grey background. The text seems also lighter. Popups are difficult to distinguish. I missed the whole post-install message, as it was white on white. As was the accessibility popup.

In White Atum the Accessibilty settings only work until a page is (re)loaded, on (re)load all settings are reset. Also the popup is on the right (not below the Accessibility button) and white, so hard to detect. I needed to zoom out first to see what had happened after I clicked the button.

White Atum: What's with the 100% up-to-date? Compare that with pregnancy. There is no such thing as 50% pregnant. You either are or you are not.
You are either up-to-date or you are not.(period)

Adding it all up: I prefer Blue Atum.
Better yet: Dark Atum. I believe with a few more extra colour options Blue Atum could achieve that.

Well, that's it for now.
I'm thinking of learning to create BE templates myself, so by the time work on Joomla 5 starts I feel confident enough to help.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by bruno28 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:44 pm

Magnytu2 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:16 am
Hello @Bruno28, it misses the link to go to the default language management but you can go by adding after administrator / index.php?option=com_languages&view=installed

lagnueJoomla.jpg
Thank you so much Cyrille for the trick, it works for the administration but for the frontend I have an error when I set to French

I tried to change the content language with adding option=com_languages&view=languages and installing the module to switch language and still it doesn't work

Never mind, I will be patient and I will wait for the beta release and use this alpha to test in English

At least I am not blind and the link to the language management and to content language is missing

Have a good day
Cordialement, Bruno28 :)
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:27 pm

kawshar Template — Chacapamac review 1

This is my modif for kawshar Template for a better uniformity of design and UX experience,

Details on following posts
Kaswar-template.jpg
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:39 pm

kawshar Template — Chacapamac review 1- Part 2

Details

• Top Page Title & left menu & breadcrumb
Dashboard-title-menu.jpg
• Breadcrumb for secondary menus items
Kaswar-breadcrumbs.jpg
• Change Helvetica Neue for Open Sans for better readability
Font-Open-Sans.jpg
• Joomla full color logo and darker border to better delimit menus & page
joomla-logo-border-menu.jpg
• JCards - Top Quick Icons
jcards-quick-icons.jpg
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Chacapamac
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:45 pm

kawshar Template — Chacapamac review 1- Part 3

• JCards - Joomla News
jcards-joomla-news.jpg
• JCards - Joomla Updates
Jcards-updates.jpg
• JCards - Sample Data - Warnings & Order
jcards-sample-data-warnings.jpg
• JCards - Title - Data Harmonized
jcards-title-data-harmonized.jpg
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bruno28
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by bruno28 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:05 pm

Great work Chacapamac

Congratulations
Cordialement, Bruno28 :)
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Chacapamac
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:09 pm

Great work Chacapamac
Thanks Bruno, at first, I overlook kawshar work but after installing it I find it a superior design compare to the “Official” template ship with the Alpha version.

This is a fresh, clean and also cool template.
I will start to look at the internal structure and design and continue my feedback here.
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imanickam
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by imanickam » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:53 am

bruno28 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:44 pm
the link to the language management and to content language is missing
The menu items of the language management can be found in the "System Dashboard".

(a) System Dashboard
J4_A12_System_Dashboard.jpg
(b) Language Management
J4_A12_Language_Management.jpg
(c) Content Language Management
J4_A12_Content_Language_Management.jpg
(d) Monolingual Site - French as the Front-End language
J4_A12_French_Frontend_Monolingual_Site.jpg
(e) Multilingual Site - French Home Page
J4_A12_French_Frontend_Mulilingual_Site.jpg

My Testing Environment:
O/S - Windows 10 64 Bit
Apache - 2.4.37
PHP - 7.2.14
MySQL - 5.7.25
Joomla! 4.0 Alpha 12 (New Install)

What I Observed:
  • Language packs of Joomla! 3.9.x could be installed just like extensions. This option is available in the "System Dashboard" under the heading/section "Install". The installation directly from the repository does not work.
  • Language Management related menu items are in the screen "System Dashboard" under the heading/section "Manage".
  • When objects such as Articles are created, the option "Language" selection would show up only when the plugin "System - Language Filter" is Enabled.
Hope this helps.
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bruno28
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by bruno28 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:40 am

Hello imanickam

Thank you for your help

I could install and work with French pack with this alpha version and I use it in french for a while

But The link is missing in kawshar version which I prefer for the look and access to functionalities

I will wait for beta release to go further with it

Have a good day
Cordialement, Bruno28 :)
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