Confused: J! 4 current status, alpha or beta?

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sozzled
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Confused: J! 4 current status, alpha or beta?

Post by sozzled » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:49 pm

There are a few discussions running on the forum about current J! 4 availability.

On one hand, there's a recent discussion that poses the question "What preventing the release of Joomla! 4 Beta?" The obvious implication in that discussion are that J! 4 beta is not currently available. Indeed, I have not seen any official announcement about a first beta version of J! 4.

Remembering, too, that when a product reaches beta, the feature set is pretty-much fully scoped and "set in concrete"; that is, it is improbable that new features will be added between the last of the alphas and the first of the stables. There is also no guarantee that the full complement of the feature set considered during the alphas/betas will be included with the release of the first stable version.

On the other hand, there's a long-running discussion "about the design of the administrator" side of things for J! 4. That discussion wanders around a bit but, as far as I can tell, the context is focused on J! 4 alpha. This is consistent with my understanding of the J! 4 project roadmap that says the project is still in alpha. The discussion may also be a "last chance" effort to include new features before the first of the betas comes out.

However, in the latter discussion, there are mentions of a beta 1 version already being available (e.g. viewtopic.php?f=803&t=970614&start=330#p3584772). These references suggest that there is a kind of "alpha-beta" version of J! 4 available (if you can understand what I'm trying to say); a version of beta that is "available" for testing; a beta version that may, or may not, be the beta version released as the first of the betas.

There is even a topic with the subject "J! 4 Beta 1"!

Confused? Well, I am!

If it is the case—that a beta version of J! 4 is available or in the pipeline)—this negates the efforts to accept an undertaking to add new features to J! 4 that have been ruled out. Otherwise, the continuing wrangle about J! 4 alpha also prevents the start of J! 4 beta until a firm decision is made, or has been made, about what is in or out of scope.

Can we have some clarification about where we're at, please. It would help to know so that I can give honest advice to people who contact me outside the forum with their questions about J! 4's current situation and estimated timeline for development. I'm not asking for target dates. I'm seeking clarification in relation to where we're at with the project.

I believe we're currently at J! 4 alpha 11 (although I could be mistaken).

Thanks. :)
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Re: Confused: J! 4 current status, alpha or beta?

Post by brian » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:01 pm

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Re: Confused: J! 4 current status, alpha or beta?

Post by sozzled » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:06 pm

Thank you, @brian. Crystal clear!

We're still in alpha, probably in the last stages of alpha, where the definition of the feature set is still a little fluid before going forward into the first of the betas.

And yes, that tweet from JoomlaWorks really doesn't help, does it? :D

Much appreciated. :)
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Re: Confused: J! 4 current status, alpha or beta?

Post by herb200mph » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:32 pm

If in "alpha," why do the nightly builds show "beta 1" within the file names?
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Re: Confused: J! 4 current status, alpha or beta?

Post by darb » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:29 pm

herb200mph wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:32 pm
If in "alpha," why do the nightly builds show "beta 1" within the file names?
Good question..its confusing.

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Re: Confused: J! 4 current status, alpha or beta?

Post by brian » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:24 pm

The reason is because they are showing the next release. Not saying I agree with that but it is what it is.
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Re: Confused: J! 4 current status, alpha or beta?

Post by herb200mph » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:07 pm

Brian: Thanks for clearing that up. Guess it is a situation of: "The Horse Before the Cart PUT!" LOLOLLLL
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Re: Confused: J! 4 current status, alpha or beta?

Post by sozzled » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:04 pm

There are still more discussions on the forum with the subject "J! 4 beta 1" in them, and those discussions are not assisted by others who continue to confirm the existence of J! 4 beta (in spite of no actual announcement). So, again for the sake of clarification (and because it's apparent that a few people have overlooked this):
brian wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:57 pm
THERE is no such thing as beta1!!!
There is an alpha12 and then nightly releases. The nightly releases all state they are beta1 but that just means the NEXT release will be beta1.

I would not expect update from alphaX to nightly to be guaranteed to work as we are not looking at the file updates during this period.

For testing you should not be trying to update. Just wipe the files and start again with a new nightly release.
Good advice and thank you, Brian.

Also for completeness, I read this interesting article yesterday https://developer.joomla.org/development-strategy.html and there are two stand-out paragraphs:
3.2.1 Alpha

The alpha milestone signifies that there is new technology in the software that is ready for testing, but that the software is not feature complete. Alpha software may also be used to demonstrate a possible combination of features to see if they work together successfully. Some features may be removed in later milestones.

The target audience for an alpha release is the development community including third-party developers who may be affected by core changes or new features.

Alpha software is not suitable for production environments.

3.2.2 Beta

The beta milestone is considered feature complete, but is still not considered suitable for production environments. The software is intended to be tested thoroughly for regressions, security and stability problems.

Third-party extension developers should be testing their products against all beta releases and reporting any issues on the Issue Tracker. Waiting for a release candidate is too late.
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Re: Confused: J! 4 current status, alpha or beta?

Post by darb » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:16 am

3.2.2 Beta

The beta milestone is considered feature complete, but is still not considered suitable for production environments. The software is intended to be tested thoroughly for regressions, security and stability problems.

Third-party extension developers should be testing their products against all beta releases and reporting any issues on the Issue Tracker. Waiting for a release candidate is too late.
Third party devs will jump in with testing/helping when the beta is released and help with bugtesting and contribute better. I know many that says like this 3pds.

Yes and as pointed out..We dont want J 4 to be "too" late and obsolete on the market. I read that someone already using J 4 in productions since a couple of months.

------
The beta milestone is considered feature complete..
So what I mean is if Joomla community not will solved certain core new wanted futures for J 4.0 we have to postpone it to J 4.1, J 4.2 etc otherwise we will never have a beta release with momentum for exitment and move Joomla foward, so sometime we have to make a decision and focus to get rid of necessary beta blockers and release a beta when timing is right.

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Re: Confused: J! 4 current status, alpha or beta?

Post by brian » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:28 am

All this time talking when you could spend the time testing.
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