The side menu for the components is always hidden?

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jackJoe
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The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by jackJoe » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:41 am

I just tested the J!4 Beta 1, and one thing that really bothers me, is the missing side menu for each component.

For example: in J!3, if you select the Smart Search, it shows you a side menu with the other options for this component, and these are always visible.

In J!4 Beta 1, these side menu options are hidden (to view or use them, you need to click the components arrow, click the component arrow and then the options are visible again).

This applies to any other component (ex: articles).

I understand that the side menu seems to be "reserved" for the main items, but why not save the menu state and reveal it when you select something?

 
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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by Quy Ton » Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:51 pm

This is no longer the case. Please test the beta nightly builds. https://developer.joomla.org/nightly-builds.html

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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by jackJoe » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:04 am

Quy Ton wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:51 pm
This is no longer the case. Please test the beta nightly builds. https://developer.joomla.org/nightly-builds.html
Thanks for the suggestion and reply.

I just installed the J!4 beta 2, but I can't login to the admin, the browser gets this js error "Uncaught TypeError: b.addEventListener is not a function"

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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by jackJoe » Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:51 pm

I just installed the latest nightly build, and it is has the same issue.

I'm using Safari Mac Version 12.1.2 (14607.3.9).

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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by JAVesey » Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:56 am

jackJoe wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:04 am
I just installed the J!4 beta 2...
It's still Beta 1 despite the labelling... I made that mistake!!

I'm about to upload the latest nightly build from a few hours ago and will check that your observations are still the same 8)
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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by toivo » Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:20 am

Haven't had any javascript or other issues with several installations of beta1-dev, beta1 or beta2-dev from scratch using Chrome.

jackJoe wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:51 pm
I'm using Safari Mac Version 12.1.2 (14607.3.9).
Try the latest version of Safari for Mac, 13.1.1, released two weeks ago. if that does not work, use MS Edge v83 or Google Chrome v83.

Just installed Akeeba Backup and Admin Tools (no affiliation) to beta2-dev from Nightly Builds. Those extensions do not have side menus but the J4 back end side bar stays visible. My own component has a small side menu and it stays in the side bar. The existence of the side menu depends on how the component is designed to work.
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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by sozzled » Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:38 am

(A quick observation in passing. J! 4 does not work at all—front- or back-end—with Safari for Windows. I realise that the SfW project was abandoned eight years ago and, consequently, if people want to test J! 4 with Safari they'll just have to buy an Apple device.)
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by JAVesey » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:49 pm

sozzled wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:38 am
(A quick observation in passing. J! 4 does not work at all—front- or back-end—with Safari for Windows. I realise that the SfW project was abandoned eight years ago and, consequently, if people want to test J! 4 with Safari they'll just have to buy an Apple device.)
Safari on MacOS is my preferred browser.

I haven't looked at the difference between Safari and Firefox (my other browser) with regard to the OP's post but will do so and report back.

I don't have Chrome on any of my devices as I don't trust Google not to be pilfering my data/info ;)
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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by jackJoe » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:15 am

I just installed the latest NB for J!4 beta2 dev.

I found out that the javascript issue that I had, was related to a database error (an error with my mySQL server and not any Joomla related query). I restarted the server and it logs in.

As for the side menu, it still hides the sub-menus on the side menu whenever the page reloads.

I tried with Google Chrome Version 83.0.4103.97 for Mac (the latest), Safari Version 12.1.2 (14607.3.9) Mac, Firefox 77.0.1 (64-bit) Mac, Microsoft Edge Version 79.0.309.65 Mac.

I can't believe anyone else doesn't have this issue? or did you not understand my issue?

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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by sozzled » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:29 am

Do you have a picture that illustrates the problem?
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by JAVesey » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:17 am

jackJoe wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:15 am
As for the side menu, it still hides the sub-menus on the side menu whenever the page reloads.
I think I see what you mean. The sidebar collapses to its default/opening state?

jackJoe wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:15 am
I can't believe anyone else doesn't have this issue? or did you not understand my issue?
I'm beginning to understand... just haven't had a lot of time to test it.

I'll spend some time on it in the coming 24 hours (as and when paid work allows) :)
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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by sozzled » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:57 pm

I think I've figured it out and it's kind of a bug. If you view the backend on a small screen (e.g. iPad) the left menu automatically toggles off. If you toggle the menu off (or shrink the window size which achieves the same thing), when you enlarge the windows size again, the left menu is still "hidden"); that's kind of a bug. Shrink window ==> auto-hide; enlarge window ==> no change.

It looks like it's a "design" feature: if you toggle the left menu on or off (i.e. displayed or hidden), logout and login again, the previous setting (on/off) is used. I haven't figured out how the feature is implemented. It may be a [session?] cookie that achieves the effect.

Whether this is desirable or not, that's for beta testers to decide.
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by jackJoe » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:23 pm

Maybe I didn't explain it correctly, my issue is not the actual "main" side menu, it is visible.

The actual problem is the options/sub-menus, these collapse/hide whenever the page is reloaded.

I thought it would be self-explanatory since we are in the dev area, I compared it to the way it works in J!3, where each component has a side menu, and in J!4 these side menu was moved to the general side menu, but it (the side-menu for the actual component) is hidden whenever I visit any option of the component.

What I'm getting when I drill-down and before clicking (for example) the Smart Search:
Screenshot 2020-06-11 at 20.25.11.png
But when it loads the page, the side menu for this component is hidden:
Screenshot 2020-06-11 at 20.26.45.png
I was expeting to have this again:
Screenshot 2020-06-11 at 20.25.11.png
The same happens for the articles, menus, users...
JAVesey wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:17 am
jackJoe wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:15 am
As for the side menu, it still hides the sub-menus on the side menu whenever the page reloads.
I think I see what you mean. The sidebar collapses to its default/opening state?
Yes, I think you got it. It returns to the same visible options (ence the "side menu for the components is always hidden", I was reffering to the component's side menu, not the main side menu).
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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by sozzled » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:47 pm

As good as I am, there's a limit to what one can do within a window that is the size of a postage stamp (i.e. the screen size used on a smart phone); like trying to trim a large tree using a pocket knife. If people want to manage a J! website (the /administrator) within a window that's less than 576 px wide, that's their business.

These issues should not be a problem (in terms of navigating the backend) on a screen that's double the width or even a couple thousand px wide, true?
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by ceford » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:32 pm

On the latest nightly build I find the sub menu remains open and the active menu item is distinguished.
opne-menu.png
It works in Responsive Design Mode too - mobile simulation in laptop (Firefox).
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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by jackJoe » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:57 am

sozzled wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:47 pm
As good as I am, there's a limit to what one can do within a window that is the size of a postage stamp (...)
This has nothing to do with small screens, please read my posts. I just cropped the screenshot so that I would show the relevant part of the menu.

ceford wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:32 pm
On the latest nightly build I find the sub menu remains open and the active menu item is distinguished.
EDIT: I just tried the 12 June 2020 02:00:23 UTC version, and the sub menu collapses to the default state. I tried in the above mentioned browsers again. So not solved.

@ceford, what Firefox version are you using?

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Re: The side menu for the components is always hidden?

Post by chrisguk » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:13 am

Can anyone explain the design concept of the Joomla 4 menu system? To me it seems to be one of the biggest usability problems with Joomla 4.

It appears that the old Sidebar menu has gone. Joomla 3 components controlled these menus with calls to JHtmlSidebar. In Joomla 4 the Sidebar class still exists but none of the core components seem to use it. Calls to JHtmlSidebar still work, and the menu it produces works, but it's a terrible use of space to have two vertical menus next to each other.

As an extension developer, I have no idea what I'm supposed to do about admin menus in Joomla 4. As far as I can see there is nothing we can do to control the behaviour of the main menu. It seems to just do whatever it wants, and without the Sidebar menus, navigation is nowhere near as easy as in Joomla 3.

We need some guidance on what is the intended design here. By the way, I'm taking about the desktop appearance here.

 

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