J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it Topic is solved

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Joomla 4.0 is still in Beta stage. This forum should be used for sharing information about Joomla! 4.0.
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sozzled
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J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:29 pm

For anyone who's interested, J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released (together with J! 3.10.0 Alpha 4) but I wasn't aware of this until I saw something posted here on the forum.

FWIW, my J! 4.0.0 Beta 5 test site did not inform me that there was a newer version (released three days ago) and the Joomla! Update component did not tell me that a newer version was available. So there's a problem there.

I went through the update process (by downloading the J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 installation package and using the Joomla! Update component to upload and install it). The update works a little differently from previous updates: there's a requirement to enter your administrator username and password before at the start of the process, then you're logged out, and then you have to login to the backend again to allow the update to complete.

As a small observation, only, it takes a few extra steps and it's a little longer to carry out the update but I mention this only to let people know what they can expect. As far as I can tell, the update worked and haven't noticed anything different between the older version and this latest release. So that's good news.

One minor irritation is that, by default (when you're first installing J! 4) you need to choose a password that's at least 12 characters long. You can shorten the password to a minimum of 8 characters after you've created your website but, unless you hack the core, that's the minimum password length. This minimum password length applies to all users.

One could debate the need to impose a minimum password length of 8 characters for all users of a J! 4 website and, particularly during testing (when you're just trying to get a feel for how to get started) I think it's may be a bit much to impose this requirement just so as to familiarise oneself with something that behaves quite differently to previous versions of J! but that's what we've been given and that's what people will have to expect. There's a fair chance that if this restriction remains in place there will be requests from people in the community, to ask how to work around that restrictive 8-character minimum but time will tell.
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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by Per Yngve Berg » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:17 pm

The Joomla update component informed me that beta6 was avalible.

Have you set the update channel to beta versions?

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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:20 pm

j4_Update-options.png
There is no "beta versions" option. There are only Default, Joomla Next, Testing and Custom URL options. The Default option allowed me to update from J! 4.0.0 Beta 4 to Beta 5; that's the option I use. If we are supposed to use a different option then where is advice?

EDIT: Sorry, the advice was contained in the press release! :-[
In order to update from Joomla 4.x to any newer release please make sure you configure your Joomla Update Components Options to point to the Update Channel “Testing” and set the Minimum Stability to “Beta” this setting also now supports updates between pre-releases.
Looks like we're switching back and forth between using different update channels for newer beta releases again. *sigh*
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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by Per Yngve Berg » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:30 pm

It's Testing that upgrades beta versions

Joomla Next will upgrade to 4.0 when released

Default upgrades only within 3.x

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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:37 pm

Per Yngve Berg wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:30 pm
Default upgrades only within 3.x
Seriously? Huh? ??? So confusing. See also viewtopic.php?f=803&t=982123#p3614522

I think I encountered the problem (about not knowing of the existence of the new Beta) because I completely re-installed my J! 4 Beta 5 website after I trashed the old test site and, of course, the Default update channel is the default option. So I've changed the option. We'll probably have to change these things around while we're familiarising ourselves with J! 4 several times over the next couple of years, I guess.

Thanks.
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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by AMurray » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:22 pm

For J4 I use the custom URL as stated in the Nightly Builds item.
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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:09 pm

The nightly builds—which I do not use—are for leading edge adopters ("alpha testers", if you like) and I don't fall into that category. I'm in the category of "Can I make this work to prepare myself for the end of J! 3.x?" ... and even to go so far as saying that it may be time to turn over a new chapter in my life when I only use the Internet for the basic necessities of life (e.g. paying bills, making online purchases, teleconferencing, etc.). Thanks, Andy, for replying. Cheers. :)
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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by Webdongle » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:46 am

sozzled wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:09 pm
"Can I make this work to prepare myself for the end of J! 3.x?" ...
Best is possibly install a fresh j3.x and set to the Test channel?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by sozzled » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:51 pm

Why would I want to install a "fresh J! 3.x" when I'm testing J! 4.0?
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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by Webdongle » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:44 pm

Because you would be testing the update as well?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by sozzled » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:08 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:44 pm
Because you would be testing the update as well?
You can't test "the update" from J! 3.9.something because you can't update from J! 3.9 to J! 4. It makes no sense to install a "fresh J! 3.x" when I'm testing J! 4.0.
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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by sozzled » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:03 pm

The three key points I want to make in this discussion are:
  1. If you are testing J! 4.0 Beta (any version) after creating a new website with this as its basis, remember to change the Joomla! Update component options to use the Testing channel (otherwise you will not receive notification of new [pre-stable] releases). From that viewpoint, people could be forgiven for not being aware when new beta releases of J! 4 become available.
  2. If you (or other people who want to create user accounts on a J! website) are used to less-than-12-character passwords, then you have to use a 12-character password when you create your J! 4 website. You can change this to use less than 12 characters but you can't change the option to use less than 8 characters. J! 4 requires all user accounts to require a minimum of 8 characters.
  3. I am only interested, at this time, in coming to terms with J! 4 and I'm testing the beta release(s) as a way to familiarise myself with it and (possibly) to see if third-party extensions, including those I've written myself, will work with J! 4. I may be interested in future in migrating some of my old J! 3 websites to J! 4 but that's something for the future. Everything hinges on whether J! 4 has a future and I haven't made my mind up about that.
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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by Webdongle » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:28 pm

sozzled wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:03 pm
...... Everything hinges on whether J! 4 has a future and I haven't made my mind up about that...

Neither have a lot of others
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by sozzled » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:45 pm

Looks like there's an elephant in the room, eh? ???
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J! 4: Disable the strict password strength rule

Post by sozzled » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:08 am

[ redacted ]

See https://www.phoca.cz/blog/1114-joomla-4 ... host-pages for the work around to this restriction.
Last edited by toivo on Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: mod note: unnecessary repetition removed
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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by herb200mph » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:13 pm

Just a comment to "sozzled" about "workarounds."

Therein, methinks, is a BIG Joomla! 4 problem = "TOO MANY WORKAROUNDS," along with too many other things that require "insider programmer" knowledge of Joomla! 4.

Other than the password length "workaround" above, the need to use "classes" for creating layouts in the Blog formats vs. Joomla! 3 where simple number insertions set the columns and the flow.

If Joomla! 4 fails, or has failings which is more likely the case, it is: TOO MANY WORKAROUNDS, vs. "the way it should be."
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Re: J! 4.0.0 Beta 6 has been released ... but you could be forgiven for not knowing about it

Post by Webdongle » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:53 pm

herb200mph wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:13 pm
...

If Joomla! 4 fails, or has failings which is more likely the case, it is: TOO MANY WORKAROUNDS, vs. "the way it should be."
+1
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.


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