"Once again": when non news is news Topic is solved

[sozzled]

I suppose no-one—even @brian (who has not contributed anything worthwhile to this discussion)—is interested in the future of J!, hmm?

I'm just reporting the news, when we get it. @brian has been begging for the same information on GitHub and he's been ignored there too.

[erick-b]

I am interested in the present = J4
nothing is coming ... its far to long and I dont trust them anymore , i'll start to switch to wordpress

[sozzled]

Perhaps to @brian's disappointment, the minutes of the Production Department meeting held two weeks ago and published today read (in part):

Other Business

• Allowing the RC date or approximate date to be more public so that there can be some momentum building in publicity and enthusiasm, giving the Devs the notion that we are serious.

The minutes do not show if there was agreement to this "other business" but it's clear that the developers have their suspicions about J! 4! What about the rest of us poor mugs who have been asking for a "more public" commitment to the project?

BTW, the J! 4 release lead was not even present at the meeting!There have been eight meetings this year and the J! 4 release lead has been absent from half of them.

I would very much like to see an update to the J! 4 roadmap. It took two weeks to publish the minutes of a meeting. I hope it doesn't take too much longer update the roadmap.

[darb]

Why not put in a responsible "developer project info communication" lead that report to the whole community how things going bad or well during the dev cycle? This doesn’t need to be the same person every time to report.

He/she pick up info and report back with a short general talk report "Latest dev update" every second week what’s happened, what focus on and what to focus on in near future or similar agreed topics.


Then people outside the dev core and also the whole dev team(s) would know better what’s going on and get guidelines, what’s planned and actions taken.

What you think?

[sozzled]

I agree with you, @darb, and that's basically what this entire discussion is about. As I have written previously, I don't care if J! 4 is good or bad; I don't care if J! 4 is running on schedule or running behind schedule; I don't care if J! 4 is released tomorrow, next week, next month or next year. I really don't care what discussions are happening on GitHub, on Zoom or Glip or around the water-cooler.

I do care that we don't know!

Now, sure, if these discussions were matters of national security then I would expect them to remain confidential. If there were discussions that involved commercial dealings or non-disclosure agreements then, likewise, there would be valid reasons for keeping a lid on things.

But Joomla! is open source. Why, therefore, are we all—developers and the broader community—being kept in the dark? What's the big secret?

I'm not seeking to embarrass anyone. If people choose to remain silent and not share what they know with the community then they only embarrass themselves. The last official news about J! 4 was on 14 April this year. The fact that the news didn't pan out according to expectations is regrettable but it's not a failure. The fact that there hasn't been an update is a failure!

[sozzled]

The rumour mill (a.k.a Twitter) has been quietly stimulated about a predicted J! 4.0 RC version on Tuesday 25 March. Interesting that we discover this not from official sources or from the roadmap, although we'll probably read about it a week after it happens. I use the term "quietly stimulated"; there have only been a dozen tweets and most of them are underwhelming.

If this is true, keep in mind that J! 4.0 RC is being released before a working beta version of J! 3.10 will be available. Also keep in mind that J! 3.9.27—which only a few people have tested—is scheduled for on the same day. J! 3.9.27 is not a "small" update.

Recent events, however, have meant that the J! 4 project is a bit of a warm-up act for the main event. It's nice to be entertained before watching the lions eat the christians.

The stage is set. Stay tuned.

[darb]

The rumour mill (a.k.a Twitter) has been quietly stimulated about a predicted J! 4.0 RC version on Tuesday 25 March. Interesting that we discover this not from official sources or from the roadmap, although we'll probably read about it a week after it happens. I use the term "quietly stimulated"; there have only been a dozen tweets and most of them are underwhelming.

If this is true, keep in mind that J! 4.0 RC is being released before a working beta version of J! 3.10 will be available. Also keep in mind that J! 3.9.27—which only a few people have tested—is scheduled for on the same day. J! 3.9.27 is not a "small" update.



Recent events, however, have meant that the J! 4 project is a bit of a warm-up act for the main event. It's nice to be entertained before watching the lions eat the christians.

The stage is set. Stay tuned.

Ohh I missed that. I mean the update.

[sozzled]

I don't know why the message I posted yesterday was removed. Yesterdat wrote that I read on Twitter—from a normally reliable source—that J! 4.0 RC1 was planned for release on 1 June. There was nothing else in what I wrote that could possibly have been interpreted as being against the forum rules.

This has been confirmed with an update to the roadmap today.

This thread has been viewed a few thousand times. It indicates that people are interested in obtaining the latest information—even if that information is based on the scarce evidence that ordinary folk have access to—and that shows that there are some people (outside the developers group)—like me—who would like to know about the status of the J! 4 project.

[AMurray]

Well it seems a good step forward for the RC1 coming up but I still am interested in how this coincides with a beta/RC/Stable release of 3.10 which supposed to be released at the same time.

[sozzled]

Well it seems a good step forward for the RC1 coming up but I still am interested in how this coincides with a beta/RC/Stable release of 3.10 which supposed to be released at the same time.

There's no news—officially or unofficially—about progress with J! 3.10. AFAIK, J! 3.10 is still stuck at alpha 5 and the only information I've found shows that the J! 4 release lead did not attend the last Production Department meeting (the fifth non-attendance out of nine meetings this year or, to put it another way, a 44.4% attendance at meetings).

[darb]

J! 4 release lead did not attend the last Production Department meeting (the fifth non-attendance out of nine meetings this year or, to put it another way, a 44.4% attendance at meetings).

Hmm if this is true sozzled that not good info but maybe also certainly reflects why there are no ”release lead” regular accurate updates in the production department or regular info updates to the rest of the community in a good manner.

If so It would be better If a release lead that not have the decided voluntarily necessary time, engagement, commitment etc better handover the release lead role to someone else, or share it and/or take a another role that doesn’t have this most important role for “leading” the project to move forward. Things can change and then it’s good to change commitments too.

I think that also reflect that control of the structured development phases cycle for Joomla 4 have taken too much time for public releases, for many reasons I guess and it’s important to learn for next dev cycle how to improve fine-tune it to be better transparent, controlled, structured and followed.

You have to read it on Twitter: https://twitter.com/GW1992/status/1396920816240140288

[sozzled]

I wish to make a public apology if I have characterised any particular member of the J! 4.0 project in a bad light. It was not my intention to do so. The project is more than about what individual people have done or not done; the project is about all of us. Therefore, while I have made a couple of observations about mistakes, missteps or failures, I apologise if I have caused offence.

[darb]

"But it is coming and will be out on 01/06!" And if it’s not coming it would be good respect to write 3-4 lines to update the whole community that’s its delayed 5-6 days etc bcs of xxx, yy or whatever reason so we understand the situation. No problem just communicate the status to all of us to keep all of us engaged.

[Grncar]

I am refreshing Joomla! news Page since midnight There is still hope! But I am worried, I have been looking for some news about this and found almost none. It is like no one belives it will happen.

[rodlie]

Doubt that you will see a (RC) release today, still 103(!) open pull requests on 4.0.

https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pu ... PR-4.0-dev

[pe7er]

Doubt that you will see a (RC) release today, still 103(!) open pull requests on 4.0.

https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pu ... PR-4.0-dev

Actually, you should instead check the PRs that are marked as Release Blocker
https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pu ... Blocker%22

[darb]

Doubt that you will see a (RC) release today, still 103(!) open pull requests on 4.0.

https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pu ... PR-4.0-dev

Actually, you should instead check the PRs that are marked as Release Blocker
https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pu ... Blocker%22

One release blocker only. But a few RTC that could be actionable very soon and then we have a rc hopefully this week I guess.

[brian]

https://youtu.be/HCXJWDHncfk

[brian]

https://www.joomla.org/announcements/re ... lpha6.html

[sozzled]

Thanks, @brian.

[darb]

Great news!

A huge fantastic update Joomla 4 rc1 (incredible)

[sozzled]

At the start of this discussion, I quoted from the February announcement

...We will also make a new portal available for translation teams to submit Joomla 4 language packs to coincide with the first Release Candidate.

I also asked about this "new portal" for the translation teams.

J! 4.0 RC1 has been released with language support for en_GB, nl-NL and de-DE. We assume that other language translations will follow soon; a work-in-progress.

As I wrote earlier in this topic:

I discovered that this new portal for the translators does not exist.

For all I know, the translation teams are organised under the same arrangements that have always existed. (See also some background information at viewtopic.php?f=803&t=985820#p3628636). There is no reference to the J! translation team's portal in the latest announcement.

[rodlie]

Doubt that you will see a (RC) release today, still 103(!) open pull requests on 4.0.

https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pu ... PR-4.0-dev

Actually, you should instead check the PRs that are marked as Release Blocker
https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pu ... Blocker%22

I know about the release blocker label, but what about the pull requests against 4.0? They are not considered for 4.0 release? Are they going to be added after 4.0 release? If so, why? They are clearly marked for 4.0, not 4.1(+).

Also, a RC (should) indicate no new features/api etc until release.

[brian]

You are correct an RC means no new features/api

A pull request doesn't just mean features. It also means bug fixes, cosmetic changes etc.

And of course it is expected that wider testing with an RC will introduce more bug reports that need Pull Requests to be fixed.

@sozzled. What does the translation have to do with you? Why do you need to know anything about it? I don't. So what. You just are never happy are you and insist that you have the right to be told of everything.

[sozzled]

Please stop the personal comments. This is about Joomla not individuals

Lets avoid the personal comments shall we. Most people posting here are active contributors to joomla and have avoided any personal comments

[brian]

There are limits

[Webdongle]

When a pull request alters (or adds to) language files are they not marked as needing translation?

[illovo]

what about the pull requests against 4.0? They are not considered for 4.0 release? Are they going to be added after 4.0 release? If so, why? They are clearly marked for 4.0, not 4.1(+).

Also, a RC (should) indicate no new features/api etc until release.

- There are just some open PRs with a "milestone 4.0" label. https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/milestone/5
- Just because a pr was created against the 4.0-dev branch that doesn't mean it has to go into version 4.0.0. It can also go in 4.0.1 or 4.1.0 (can be moved into another branch) or ...
- Too many people spend their time with nagging instead of testing PRs. Any pr needs at least 2 successful tests before it's ReadyToCommit. And a RTC doesn't mean per se that it will be merged. TBH: I don't test prs which I consider superfluous. Testers are volunteers, too.
- A "[4.0]" in the title doesn't mean anything. It's just easier to differ it from J3 when you scroll through the overview or get emails about issues/prs.
- Some are still discussed.
- Yes. we have a feature stop now with the RC release for 4.0.
- In a complex and volunteer based system like Joomla you will always have open prs against whatever.

EDIT: Sorry for redundance. I was too slow with my answer ;-)

[brian]

> When a pull request alters (or adds to) language files are they not marked as needing translation?

yes - its automatic

[Webdongle]

Then why is there only language support for en_GB, nl-NL and de-DE in J4 rc?