Potential loss of my website

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Franna
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Potential loss of my website

Post by Franna » Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:14 pm

Good day Joomla support community,
For years my website was working fine and I kept it up to date and ensured that it was well managed. But I am afraid it seems like the next update that is awaiting will completely break my website, And I am now at a loss for words and do not know what the path forward is. Please can you assist me, see below pre-check screen. Can anyone advise me please?
update1.png
update2.png
update3.png
update4.png
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pe7er
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by pe7er » Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:48 pm

Welcome to Joomla forum!

First I would upgrade all extensions to the latest versions.
e.g. Acymailing 5.11.2 is currently the most recent in the 5 series.

Then I would create a backup of the current website (using Akeeba Backup),
install it at a local computer (e.g. using XAMPP),
disable all the plugins that give errors,
do a test migration
and test everything.

I suppose that the current template won't work, so check how everything works in the new J4 default Cassiopeia template.
Kind Regards,
Peter Martin, Global Moderator
https://db8.nl - Joomla specialist, Nijmegen, Netherlands
The best website: https://the-best-website.com

Franna
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by Franna » Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:24 pm

Hi pe7er,

Thank you for the reply, the person who build our website, has closed down and no longer provides services, thus we looked after our own website. The suggestion sounds like I will need to get services in to ensure it is done correctly, it is really frustrating knowing that upgrades get done without ease of migration in mind. We will then consult with the necessary people to see if Joomla is still the best decision for our business, looking at this potentially happening again going forward. Our other websites are wordpress, and we have not had anything like this before. Thanks for the reply.

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pe7er
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by pe7er » Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:05 pm

You're welcome!

Franna wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:24 pm
the person who build our website, has closed down and no longer provides services, thus we looked after our own website. The suggestion sounds like I will need to get services in to ensure it is done correctly,
You can find Joomla Specialists in the Joomla Service Providers Directory: https://community.joomla.org/service-pr ... directory/

it is really frustrating knowing that upgrades get done without ease of migration in mind. We will then consult with the necessary people to see if Joomla is still the best decision for our business, looking at this potentially happening again going forward. Our other websites are wordpress, and we have not had anything like this before.
Actually, the jump from Joomla 3 to Joomla 4 is great. Joomla 3 already had multilingual, ACL (permissions), flexible User Groups and template overrides in the core. The Joomla 4 core has now built-in: modern coding (PHP 8), accessibility, SEO, Workflow, Task Scheduler, optimized Smart Search, etc. Unfortunately old extensions that have not been updated to modern PHP standards, won't work on Joomla 4.

The efforts to upgrade to Joomla 4 depend on the template and used 3rd party extensions. When you stick to the Joomla core, and use minimal 3rd party extensions, then J3 > J4 upgrades go smoothly.

Last week I migrated four Joomla 3 websites to Joomla 4. Three of them went smoothly because they had minimal extensions. The last one required more efforts as one plugin was not compatible and the template did not work on J4. However, The old template had an outdated layout, so my client took it as an opportunity to finally get the long-overdue-makeover implemented. And the plugin had to be changed a bit to work on Joomla 4 and PHP 8.x.
Last edited by toivo on Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: mod note: disabled smilies - PHP 8
Kind Regards,
Peter Martin, Global Moderator
https://db8.nl - Joomla specialist, Nijmegen, Netherlands
The best website: https://the-best-website.com

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sozzled
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by sozzled » Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:42 pm

Franna wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:14 pm
For years my website [has been] working fine and I kept it up to date and ensured that it was well managed. But I am afraid it seems like the next update that is awaiting will completely break my website, And I am now at a loss for words and do not know what the path forward is. Please can you assist me, see below pre-check screen. Can anyone advise me please?
I can assure you that your website will continue to work fine for years to come if you do not migrate to J! 4.x or J! 5.x. ;)

No one is forcing anyone to do anything! 8). See viewtopic.php?t=994082 for more information.
“If you think I’m wrong then say, ‘I think you’re wrong.’ If you say ‘You’re wrong!’, how do you know?”
Walking the talk: https://j4xdemo.enduring.com.au
:)

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Webdongle
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by Webdongle » Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:46 pm

Bug and security support both end in about 12 months https://docs.joomla.org/Joomla!_CMS_versions
You might still be able to run Joomla 3 longer but there are pitfalls. Eventually php will have updated so much that J3 and 3rd party extensions will not run. Your server might allow you too use older versions of php but many wont.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"When I'm right no one remembers but when I'm wrong no one forgets".

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sozzled
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by sozzled » Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:00 pm

I agree, @Webdongle. Maintenance support for J! 3 by the CMS developers will cease on 17-Aug-2023 however volunteer help (via this and other J!-related forums) will continue for quite some time to come. Even today, people seek help via this forum for versions of J! that became obsolete over a decade ago.

I agree that continuing to rely on outdated software always increases the risk that that software will eventually fail—the pitfalls, as you say—but this is a matter of risk management that each person will consider themselves. Software "wears out"—similar in some ways to breakdowns due to mechanical defects. I agree that external factors (such as providers of webhosting services withdrawing the availability of software that enables older versions of J! to operate) is one of the potential risks of website failure. That's a matter for webhosting service providers to consider themselves.

I agree that it's generally a good idea for people to use the latest, supported versions of software wherever possible but we must also remember that there is no guaranteed support for J!—there never has been and there never will be; J! software is released "as is", without any guarantee of fitness for purchase, merchantability or reliability. We volunteers do our best to help others who encounter problems when they arise but we don't guarantee that our recommendations or advice will suit everyone. 8)

Insofar as whether people should feel anxious about these things or pressured into updating their software, I will again say that no-one is forcing anyone to do anything. Anxiety, about the potential for harm, is a matter of risk management: assess the level risk, assess the likelihood of that risk occurring and the consequences of harm resulting from that risk, and make plans for how to mitigate the effects of that risk if it should happen. :)

That's just my opinion, of course, and people are at liberty to differ with me. 8)
“If you think I’m wrong then say, ‘I think you’re wrong.’ If you say ‘You’re wrong!’, how do you know?”
Walking the talk: https://j4xdemo.enduring.com.au
:)

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Webdongle
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by Webdongle » Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:34 pm

sozzled wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:00 pm
I agree, @Webdongle. Maintenance support for J! 3 by the CMS developers will cease on 17-Aug-2023 however volunteer help (via this and other J!-related forums) will continue for quite some time to come. ...
But not by rewriting J3 core code to enable to work when it fails to work with future php updates or if a vulnerability is found.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"When I'm right no one remembers but when I'm wrong no one forgets".

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sozzled
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by sozzled » Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:45 pm

I agree with you, @Webdongle. Those are possibilities, some of many, that would be factors in a risk management plan.

I also agree with @pe7er who suggested that, if people were concerned about their ability—or perhaps inability—to migrate from J! 3.x to J! 4.x, there are professional services available to assist people with migrating from one system to another.

[ redacted ]

We can also make observations about people who advocate changes (for technical and other reasons) while they, themselves, continue to use outdated methodologies. :pop
Last edited by toivo on Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: mod note: self promotion removed - please observe the forum rules!
“If you think I’m wrong then say, ‘I think you’re wrong.’ If you say ‘You’re wrong!’, how do you know?”
Walking the talk: https://j4xdemo.enduring.com.au
:)

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pe7er
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by pe7er » Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:39 am

sozzled wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:42 pm
I can assure you that your website will continue to work fine for years to come if you do not migrate to J! 4.x or J! 5.x. ;)

No one is forcing anyone to do anything! 8). See viewtopic.php?t=994082 for more information.
If you apply it to desktop software: the Windows XP operating system still works, and nobody is forcing you to upgrade... :o

From a security point of view, the advice not to upgrade software is bad advice. Joomla is software and your website is accessible from all around the world. It is advisable to keep all software (the operating system + PHP version + Joomla + 3rd party extensions) up to date.

Like Webdongle wrote, Joomla 3 will be supported with security patches till August 2023.
If you decide to continue working with Joomla 3, make sure you make regular offline backups in case of problems.

Note that the security support for PHP 7.4 (on your server maintained by your hosting company) is only till 28 Nov 2022, see https://www.php.net/supported-versions.php
Joomla 3 works well on PHP 8.0. However, outdated extensions may not.
Kind Regards,
Peter Martin, Global Moderator
https://db8.nl - Joomla specialist, Nijmegen, Netherlands
The best website: https://the-best-website.com

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sozzled
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by sozzled » Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:46 am

pe7er wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:39 am
From a security point of view, the advice not to upgrade software is bad advice. Joomla is software and your website is accessible from all around the world. It is advisable to keep all software (the operating system + PHP version + Joomla + 3rd party extensions) up to date.
I agree. 8)

By the way, in connection with the redaction in a previous post for alleged self-promotion, I wrote that people can use Google to search for "no-one is forcing anyone to upgrade to Joomla 4.x". I am not responsible for the whatever results Google may return when people perform that search. There is nothing in the forum rules that prohibits using Google or any other search engine to find information, is there?
“If you think I’m wrong then say, ‘I think you’re wrong.’ If you say ‘You’re wrong!’, how do you know?”
Walking the talk: https://j4xdemo.enduring.com.au
:)

Franna
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by Franna » Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:14 am

Thank you for everyone's replies, we are just in this boat because the company that previously built our website has closed down, and I took over management of our site. I can do all the technical things that you guys advised me, but I do not have the facilities to bring up a test site first to ensure proper migration. I will make contact with the service providers offered on this forum, again thank you everyone.

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Per Yngve Berg
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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by Per Yngve Berg » Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:22 am

Your host's cpanel shall have the feature to create a sub-domain where you can install the backup with kickstart. Here you can experiment with upgrades.

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Re: Potential loss of my website

Post by Webdongle » Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:43 pm

You can use Wamp on your PC (mamp on a mac) to provide a test environment. You can use Akeeba https://extensions.joomla.org/extension/akeeba-backup/ to copy the site to localhost then back to the server. N.B. the files on the server will need to be deleted from the server and the database empty. The Akeeba backup needs a clean Host to be restored to.


https://docs.joomla.org/Copying_a_Jooml ... _method.29
Copying a website (common method)
Akeeba

*Akeeba Backup produces a .jpa file
*The .jpa file contains all the folders/files and database files.
*The .jpa file also contains an installer
*Kickstart.php (from Akeeba) unpacks the .jpa file
*You then run the installer and install your site like a Joomla install
*The installer changes the configuration for restoring to a different location and prompts for the new database details.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"When I'm right no one remembers but when I'm wrong no one forgets".


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