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Creating an article

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luk2016
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Creating an article

Post by luk2016 » Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:48 pm

Hello,

I have set the menu-item "Create an article" >>> "Options" >>> "Specific category" to No.
Now, in the front-end a publisher can change the category wenn creating a new article.

But wenn the specific category is set to Yes and a category is specified, a publisher cannot change this category wenn creating a new article. A small red circle pops up. At the other hand, changing the category wenn editing an existing article, or the newly created article, in the front-end does remain possible.

Is this by default ? I would expect that it should be possible to change category always, not only for existing articles.

Thanks
Luk

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Webdongle
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Re: Creating an article

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:15 pm

Depends on Permissions
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"When I'm right no one remembers but when I'm wrong no one forgets".

luk2016
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Re: Creating an article

Post by luk2016 » Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:25 am

Thanks for your quick reply.

Indeed, that was also my belief.
But I don't see where and how.
Have spent hours poking around and trying in the global configuration panel, but see no clue.
Can you point me in the right direction?
The user group involved has publisher as its parent.
Of course, there is a workaround: accept the default category and edit afterwards, which is possible.
However, I don't see which permissions apply to be able to do this immediately.

Thanks
Luk

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Webdongle
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Re: Creating an article

Post by Webdongle » Tue Jun 11, 2024 4:48 pm

If the user is in a User Group that is selected in a specific Users >>> Access Level
THEN
They will see Categories/Articles in that Access Level

If the user is in a User Group that has Create in a Category
Then they can Create in that Category

If the user is in a User Group that has Edit in a Category (or for an Article)
Then they can edit any Article (that inherits the Permissions) in that Category

If the user is in a User Group that has Edit Own in a Category (or for an Article)
Then they can only edit Articles (that inherits the Permissions) in that Category that they have Created

Once the user has edited an Article no user can see that Article unless they have Edit State Permission

User Group Permission in a Category overrides Global Permissions
User Group Permission in an Article overrides Category Permissions and thus Global Permissions

Always test with Joomla's default front end Template because some 3rd party Templates ignore Joomla settings.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"When I'm right no one remembers but when I'm wrong no one forgets".

luk2016
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Re: Creating an article

Post by luk2016 » Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:35 pm

Thanks for your time and your quick reply with clear overview, but perhaps I have not been clear enough myself in explaining my problem.

I know how to manage and set permissions, ACL and Access Levels, but in this case I cannot find out exactly which permissions are involved.
I have tried and changed all article and category permissions, I have tried all other Access Levels, I have tried with Super User rights, I switched between JCE Editor and TinyMCE, I tried with some other J5 sites without complex usergroups and Access Levels, but no avail.

So I still do not understand why, after setting a specific category in the settings of the "Create Article" menu item, it is not possible for a Front End publisher to change the category when creating a new article, except after saving this new article and editing it again on the site in the Front End.

On the other hand, leaving the specific category blank in the settings, changing category is not a problem.

In my mind, this doesn't make sense, but maybe it is by default and I should resign myself to it and produce a howto for my users.

I no longer have J3 or J4 sites, but I seem to remember that this was possible back then.
Can you reproduce this?

Thanks
Luk

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Webdongle
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Re: Creating an article

Post by Webdongle » Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:54 pm

Have just tested and works ok

Please answer the following
  1. Are you using Cassiopeia?
  2. Is the user group selected in any of the Admin >>> Users >>>Access Levels?
  3. What Permissions does the user Group have in:
    1. Global config
      and
    2. Categories
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"When I'm right no one remembers but when I'm wrong no one forgets".

luk2016
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Re: Creating an article

Post by luk2016 » Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:45 pm

I am using a Joomla51 template.
In the meantime I have tested with Cassiopeia but in doesn't work.
The user group "IBB_tekst" is, among with another user group "IBB_site", selected in an Access Level "Special_tekst".
This Access Level is dedicated to the menu item "Create Article".
Both the user groups have as parent "Publisher".
Permissions - see screenshots. (PS. Categories via: content - categories - options)

Thanks for your advice.
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Webdongle
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Re: Creating an article

Post by Webdongle » Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:23 pm

luk2016 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:45 pm ...
The user group "IBB_tekst" is, among with another user group "IBB_site", selected in an Access Level "Special_tekst".
This Access Level is dedicated to the menu item "Create Article".
...
If the user group is only selected in one Users >>> Access Level then they might not see other Categories. Try selecting them in other Access Levels. And make sure they have the correct Permissions in each Category.

e.g.
The group is selected in Public
The Categories are set to Public Access level.

Is it a comercial or hobby site?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"When I'm right no one remembers but when I'm wrong no one forgets".

luk2016
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Re: Creating an article

Post by luk2016 » Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:03 pm

All my sites are for non-profit or hobby organisations.

I tried your suggestion, but no avail. Incidentally, this was to be expected since none of my sites have identical complex users or groups or access levels or permissions, but do show this same behaviour...

I then set up a fresh and bare testsite with Joomla 5.1.1, cassiopeia, editor TinyMCE, with no non-core extensions and language=en_GB (site and administrator).

Only one user in user group=publisher, no additional access levels created.
Only one category created with access=public.
Item or category rights not changed/modified.
Only one menu item created with access=special: "article creation" and "specific category" enabled.

Tested with Firefox/Edge/Chrome, with this one user (group publisher) or with superuser, but to no avail, the phenomenon remains.

So currently I think this is now by default, since J4? J5?
Strange that no other user could confirm this.

Webdongle, thanks for spending time on my question and your suggestions.

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Webdongle
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Re: Creating an article

Post by Webdongle » Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:38 pm

No it doesn't happen with my test site. If you give me super admin to your test site I can take a quick look?
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Webdongle
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Re: Creating an article

Post by Webdongle » Sat Jun 15, 2024 11:25 am

OK got your PM and tested on your test site. All works as expected. Can create Article front end and choose category before saving for the first time. btw added phoca admin menu while I was there
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"When I'm right no one remembers but when I'm wrong no one forgets".

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Re: Creating an article

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:52 pm

An update
@luk2016 was:
1. Creating a 'Create' menu item restricting it to a specific category
and
2. Instead of setting the User Group 'Edit' etc. Permissions for that Category he set the Permissions globally.
As a result once a member of that User Group created an Article they could choose any Category to save the edit.

Limiting the Category in the Create menu item only limits the Category when the Article is Created. To restrict the Category when editing (an already created Article) then Edit Permission needs to be st at category level.

I have pm'd @luk2016 about this but he has not read it yet.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"When I'm right no one remembers but when I'm wrong no one forgets".

luk2016
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Re: Creating an article

Post by luk2016 » Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:33 pm

@Webdongle, thank you for all your information and time spent.
I will give it a try, although it seems to be a hard one...I'll probably have to re-study Joomla's ACL :-\
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Webdongle
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Re: Creating an article

Post by Webdongle » Tue Jun 18, 2024 2:12 pm

Simple.
The Create menu item option applies only to creating the Article not editing.
Global Permissions apply globally
Category Permissions apply to the Category only

So
Global Edit Permitted Articles in all Categories can be edited
Global Edit Denied (inherited if Registered is the parent group) Category Permission Allowed for the user group then only Articles in that Category can be edited by that user group
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"When I'm right no one remembers but when I'm wrong no one forgets".

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