Joomla 5: when will publishing functionalities evolve?

[fabio42]

Hi everyone!
12 years after posting on the same subject, I am coming back, not really knowing where to post this. It has to do with Joomla administration, but also content management.
I started investigating a long time ago on how to get a more precise and granular way of letting my users publish articles on my website. Having a large number of students, I really wanted to make the most of the ACL system implemented in the now forsaken 1.6 version. Everything seemed to be in the box.
Yet, after writing a few articles on the question, I still haven't found a way to let an author edit his own article once he has published it. Why so? Because once the author has published his article, he cannot view it anymore (as his article is pending for approval, and must be validated by a publisher or administrator). So many times have I thought how useful it was for an author to be able to revisit his article online before the deadline for publishing was over. Originally, there used to be a free plugin that did the job in Jooomla 1.5 (that said, ages ago!), which does not exist any longer, of course.
Here is the list of articles I have published so far on the question:
viewtopic.php?f=708&t=986884
viewtopic.php?f=808&t=1006276
viewtopic.php?f=808&t=994926
So far, all tips handed to me (mostly unsatisfactory workarounds costing me a lot of time to implement) definitely point to a major lack in Joomla's structure. Far from me criticizing the developers who have done amazing work over the years, but when I first opted for Joomla ages ago, I had chosen it for its flexibility in assigning roles and allowing users to share roles in a smart way when it comes to publishing.
For those who do not want to waste time reading the three articles above, simply browse through the Joomla extensions directory and take a closer look at the Shack article manager which should be - to my mind - an integral part of Joomla. For what it was meant to be. For what it was meant to allow us to do.
So, basically, the question is: when will the next major improvements happen for joomla?
Thanks for enlightening me!

[gsmela]

Have you looked at Joomlashack’s “Shack Article Manager” which allows individuals to edit their own articles?

https://extensions.joomla.org/extension ... e-manager/

[AMurray]

Would you consider that the Workflow function covers everything you've raised?

https://magazine.joomla.org/all-issues/ ... ow-feature
https://docs.joomla.org/J4.x:Workflow

Even for that Shack Article Manager, that could present problems such as junk/spam posts (even with the most reliable antispam/captcha measures in place), especially if Guest users (no login) are able to post. You'd still need some sort of workflow control over that.

[Webdongle]

'Edit State' allows a user to Publish an Article that they edited.

[Per Yngve Berg]

Otherwise the Article will be unpublished after edit.

Edit.Own allows editing.

[Webdongle]

Create a new User Group with registered as default, leave global Permissions default.
Select that User Group in the Access levels you wish them to see

Create a second new User Group with the first new User Group as Parent
Change the Permissions for the second new User Group per Category
Add 'Create' and 'Edit Own' (they inherit Registered User Group Permissions)
You now control what Categories members of the second User Group can create in but they don't have full control'

Create a third new User Group with the second new User Group as Parent
Add 'Edit state' (they inherit the second new User Group Permissions)
They can now control publishing of their Articles.

You can create a fourth new User Group if you wish.

Naming of the new User Groups can follow Joomla's structure
e.g.
Cars Registered
-Cars Editor
--Cars Publisher
(you can start with 'Public' as Parent of the first new user group if you wish to limit the audience for categories)

Using a similar approach for backend editing (with Components, Categories) allows your users varying degrees of control of /administrator. Allowing them backend editing of /administrator might make editing easier than editing frontend.

Bottom line
The key is to plan it with pen and paper before creating Categories, Menu items, User Groups or Access levels.

[fabio42]

Hi everyone!
First thanks for taking the time to answer my post.

Have you looked at Joomlashack’s “Shack Article Manager” which allows individuals to edit their own articles?
https://extensions.joomla.org/extension ... e-manager/

Yes, this was mentioned in my post. This is exactly what Joomla should include. It should really allow users (with authoring rights) to VIEW the contents they have posted, which is NOT the case for now. Indeed, the articles written by authors become INVISIBLE to them once they have been submitted. The following article explains this very clearly.
https://kevinsguides.com/guides/webdev/ ... tent-edit/
And that's exactly what Joomla lacks. The ideal thing would be for the author to be able to visualize his published and unpublished/pending articles in a table.

'Edit State' allows a user to Publish an Article that they edited.

I know that very well. That's not what I am looking for. I want authors to be able to VIEW the state of their article (pending / published)

'Edit State' allows a user to Publish an Article that they edited.

Yes, I know that as well. This does not answer my post.

Would you consider that the Workflow function covers everything you've raised?
https://magazine.joomla.org/all-issues/ ... ow-feature
https://docs.joomla.org/J4.x:Workflow
Even for that Shack Article Manager, that could present problems such as junk/spam posts (even with the most reliable antispam/captcha measures in place), especially if Guest users (no login) are able to post. You'd still need some sort of workflow control over that.

That was one of the discussions I've had in one of the 3 links I posted. Unfortunately, the workflow does not / cannot meet my original request. I've been going through the whole Joomla guide on the workflow and at no time does it suggest a way for authors to be able to VIEW their pending articles. As for security, provided you allow specific users to publish (registered roles at least!), this definitely minimalizes the risks of being spammed.

and finally @webdongle. I don't understand how your last post is related to my original publication as it does not offer any practical solution for authors to VIEW their articles once they have submitted it. AAs they can't view it anymore (once submitted), they can't edit it at all! Such a pity. Why prevent authors from having a second eye at what they have produced?
I have lots of nested groups in my website with different roles which work fine, but this is not what I'm looking for. Back to square one.

I do understand there is no perfect solution for what I want, unless I opt for customization, and this will have a cost of course. Yet, I believe in the power of joomla (otherwise I would not have used it for years), though some obvious functionalities fail me.

[Webdongle]

... I still haven't found a way to let an author edit his own article once he has published it. Why so? Because once the author has published his article, he cannot view it anymore (as his article is pending for approval, and must be validated by a publisher or administrator)....

'Edit state' allows that. If the User Group (the user is in) has 'Edit state' Allowed then they can set it to Published before saving. In other words they CAN see and it does not need to "be validated by a publisher or administrator"

You can add the 'Edit state' Permission to Editor if you wish or create a new set of User Groups.

Bottom line the correct use of 'Edit state' permission does what you requested.

... I still haven't found a way to let an author edit his own article once he has published it. Why so? Because once the author has published his article, he cannot view it anymore (as his article is pending for approval, and must be validated by a publisher or administrator)....

Good luck

[fabio42]

Hi !

I went throughout the process of using the "edit state" to allowed.
Here's what I managed to do but I'm still stuck on something. Thoughtful tips are most welcome!

1. Created a user group "TLLCER" composed of 13 users (students) belonging to the Authors group, with "edit state" and "edit own" set to allowed.

permissions.JPG

2. Created a category called "students posts". When the users belonging to the TLLCER group use the frontend editor, they have no choice but to publish in this category.
3. Created a menu link called "my articles" pointing to the category list "students posts". When a user clicks on this link in the menu, they are redirected to publishing information. Here's a test with 2 users:
* user 1 (TLLCER1) submitted an article called "test student 1".
* user 2 (TLLCER2) submitted an article called "test student 2".

Good news is that, for example, student 1 can view and edit his own article.
Bad news is he can view (but not edit) student 2's article. Actually, he can click on the title, view the article, and in some cases, I would love them not to view what their friends have submitted until my moderation operates.

user-test.JPG

Is there a simple workaround that would make other students'articles invisible to the whole group (except to the student who submitted the article of course!) until they are finally reviewed and published by me (admin)?

Seems like I'm close to the finishing line. Hope you might suggest something handy!
(and thanks a lot for your patience)

[Webdongle]

... in some cases, I would love them not to view what their friends have submitted until my moderation operates.

user-test.JPG

Is there a simple workaround that would make other students'articles invisible to the whole group (except to the student who submitted the article of course!) until they are finally reviewed and published by me (admin)?...

Selecting User Groups applies to all Access levels

Create a new User Group with registered as default, leave global Permissions default.
Select that User Group in the Access levels you wish them to see
...

creating Categories, Menu items, User Groups and Access levels helps when selecting User Groups in Access Levels.

...
Bottom line
The key is to plan it with pen and paper before creating Categories, Menu items, User Groups or Access levels.

[fabio42]

Thanks for the answer but I'm still at a loss in fine-tweaking my system. I've got 280 students, 27 groups and sub-groups, 30 categories with defined accesses, numerous menu links with different accesses, and I can't find out how to hide the titles of other users' uneditable articles for now. I cannot possibly create a group for each user/author, in order for them not to view other authors' articles. Does Joomla integrate a "simple" way to implement this?
I have just fallen upon this article linked to wordpress and there seems to be a plugin that does that:
https://publishpress.com/blog/hide-peop ... ess-admin/
They say:

however, in some situations, site owners don't want authors to see the Posts that other users are working on

This is my case, I believe. And the plugin offers a way to hide the articles by ticking a box.
Of course there is no such box in Joomla, but considering the wealth of its ACL system, isn't there anything that can be done in this case?
Can you give me a lead please using the example of my two users?

[Webdongle]

Ah, you want Articles visible per user. Perhaps something like Community Builder https://extensions.joomla.org/extension ... y-builder/ ?

[fabio42]

yeah, I'd once thought of it, however they deal with this point. I've been browsing their tutorials, and nothing seems to address my need.
When you read the description of what CB offers, it's obvious it does not fulfill my request:

Build amazing communities with custom profiles, fields, and add-ons bringing activity streams, subscriptions, galleries, and so much more to your community using CB

[Webdongle]

There were several for J3 that did what you want but I don't think they are available for J4/J5