ecommerce extension

[ghardin]

I am trying to find a Joomla eCommerce extension that uses a vendor or supplier cost field for products. I have looked at nearly all of the ones available, either a Pro/Paid version or free versions and none seem to have any clue what I am talking about. I have been in the wholesale business for more than 40 years and knowing what my cost was on every item in my inventory was critical to making a profit.
Does anyone know of an extension that incorporates a vendor/supplier cost into the product fields?

[Sulpher]

It is not directly clear what exactly is needed.

"supplier cost into the product fields"
Can you rephrase the idea what exactly does it mean?

[ghardin]

I approach the eCommerce model from the standpoint of a wholesaler, which is my background. When I buy products to sell in my shop/store, I must pay some supplier/manufacturer for those goods. That is my "cost". In order to be profitable in ANY endeavor of this sort, I need to have the ability to calculate a profitable sell price. To do that I need to calculate my "profit margin" or "markup" by one of 2 formulas based on the "cost" of the products I pay to my supplier(s). It is good business to not rely on just one level of profit. There will be products you can sell at a higher profit level and those that you must sell at a lower profit in order to be competitive. In both of those scenarios you MUST know what your costs are in order to determine where your sell price needs to be.
Any good eCommerce solution should have a cost field for every product and, ideally, a way to implement some kind of profit calculation on the field to determine the profitable sell price.

[Sulpher]

Maybe Hikashop will meet your needs?
There is a special edition Hikamarket:
https://www.hikashop.com/hikamarket-multi-vendor.html

It has the following feature:

Configure fees for your store, your vendors and products

Is this feature sounds similar to your expectations concerning the marketplace?

As for this request:

In order to be profitable in ANY endeavor of this sort, I need to have the ability to calculate a profitable sell price. To do that I need to calculate my "profit margin" or "markup" by one of 2 formulas based on the "cost" of the products I pay to my supplier(s).

I never seen such a solution, but guess if the architecture of an e-commerce extensions allows using events, this calculator can be done via the plugin.
It's a custom task which can be resolved by a trustful developer as the commercial job.

[ghardin]

I have looked at HikaShop and it did not appear to have this capability, but there were some other things about it that I did not care for, so I moved on from that. I believe Virtuemart has this builtin,or at least it used to, without the need for a plugin. But I haven't used VM in several years and it is really too big for my current purposes.
But this part of the store SHOULD be a standard, out of the box part of ANY eCommerce solution. The basic formula is very simple: "cost" x "markup" (say 1.25 for 25% profit) = "sell price". Another calculation might be "cost" / "margin" (say .75 for 25% profit margin) = "sell price". The later actually gives more profit than the former.

[jbeech]

Hi jharkin,
And I did the opposite of you, first I examined VirtuMart, and after deciding it wasn't for me, continued looking around (PhocaCasrt and JoomShaper's EasyStore), before settling on HikaShop. Our present Shopify-like website allows us to enter product cost so like you, I too was surprised this capability was missing from HikaShop out of the box. However, being a stubborn sort, I didn't give up and thus, wrote to inquire. I subsequently received this very prompt response . . .

By default, HikaShop doesn't have a cost field, only the sales price field, since the main goal of HikaShop is to sell products, not to manage the purchase of inventory.

Now, you can create a custom field of the table "product" via the menu Display>Custom fields in HikaShop Business if you want to store the cost of a product. And you can even use the "access level" setting of the custom field to say which users can see the field.

. . . thus proving, where there's a will, there's a way! We input our product cost and hide it so folks in Pick & Pack accessing the back end aren't privy to the figures since loose lips sink ships is as true today as 85 years ago.

Finally, in addition to HikaShop Business edition, we also purchase their Authorize.net and ShipStation extensions because we're stateside and our customers expect to be able to use the usual suspects to pay, and ship via USPS, UPS, FedEx, and DHL. ShipStation makes it easy to manage to shipping and send the customer an email with their tracking number. However, with regard to carriers, if you're in Europe or AUS, then because HikaShop have many other carriers listed, you're bound to find what meets your needs. And a final note; HikaShop also has a [spam] extension, which is actually where our beancounter manages inventory and keeps track of our product costs.

Bottom line? I have no regrets for selecting HikaShop, and would make the same decision again. Moreover, I would urge you to reconsider and take another look. Especially because they're very nice people and the support is simply world class.

Anyway, good luck to you, pal.
--
John Beech

[Webdongle]

So you want to put in the buying cost (to you), set a % mark-up and have the Component calculate and display the retail price?

[jbeech]

I don't do it by fixed formula. Instead, I input the product cost just to be able to see it without going to my accounting program. As for price setting, since I make my products, I decide the selling price, and it's not via a fixed formula the way you describe. For example, some products only a 25% margin, others 300%, as usual, it depends.

So because it's not cut and dried process since the market decides if it'll pay what I demand, a fixed formula won't work for me.

[Webdongle]

So if you don't want the Component to calculate the the selling price from buying price you put in ...
Then other than the normal processes of
* Calculating tax
* Calculating delivery cost
* Notifying when more goods need ordering
What else do you want it to do.

Nobody is doubting your ability to run your business. What we are trying to understand is what more you expect from the Component. If no one is understanding what you want either you are not explaining in clearly enough or what you want is not within the capability of a 3rd party extension?

[jbeech]

Ah, negative Ghost Rider, you have me confused with ghardin who is the wholesaler. I'm fine with what I am getting from HikaShop, which is a field where we insert product cost. He's the fellow wanting a formula, not me.

[ghardin]

So you want to put in the buying cost (to you), set a % mark-up and have the Component calculate and display the retail price?

Yes, that would be the desired solution.

[ghardin]

I don't do it by fixed formula. Instead, I input the product cost just to be able to see it without going to my accounting program. As for price setting, since I make my products, I decide the selling price, and it's not via a fixed formula the way you describe. For example, some products only a 25% margin, others 300%, as usual, it depends.

So because it's not cut and dried process since the market decides if it'll pay what I demand, a fixed formula won't work for me.

The formula would only make the calculation. The sell price could always be overridden. I come from a background in wholesale and I had products that I could only make 5-10% on and others I could make 50-60% on. So I understand your situation. Doing it manually works great if you have a few products, but if you have hundereds, it then becomes very tedious. If you make your own products, do you factor in all production variables to get to a cost of goods sold for your sell price calculations? Have that is a shopping cart extension would be a bit much to ask, but it is still a critical part of profitability.

[ghardin]

So if you don't want the Component to calculate the the selling price from buying price you put in ...
Then other than the normal processes of
* Calculating tax
* Calculating delivery cost
* Notifying when more goods need ordering
What else do you want it to do.

Nobody is doubting your ability to run your business. What we are trying to understand is what more you expect from the Component. If no one is understanding what you want either you are not explaining in clearly enough or what you want is not within the capability of a 3rd party extension?

All shopping carts I have tried calculate the tax and shipping costs out of the box. That is not an issue. The ONLY part of the component that seems to be missing from the very basic configuration is the product cost field and the related sell price calculation. I am not looking for an inventory management section or even a field for COGS. This is really a pretty simple ask and I am not asking for an elaborate solution. I do not believe it is something that I should have to pay for. It should be out of the box. There are plenty of other features that a developer could have that they want to include in a premium version to generate that revenue. Providing a cost field is not one of them. As far as I am concerned, it is critical to maximizing profits.

[jbeech]

do you factor in all production variables to get to a cost of goods sold for your sell price calculations? Have that is a shopping cart extension would be a bit much to ask,

Yes, this is absolute necessary - but - this is done with the accounting program. It's where I 'get' the product cost number to input into HikaShop.

But when I am editing a product page, I may edit the price right there on the fly. Later I'll tell the accounting software the new selling price. This is just information as the accounting program is where we track input costs.

Sorry, but I am still new to HikaShop + accounting + ShipStation programs so while i have been using my other site + accounting program + ShipStation, I don't yet have all the answers for myself for HikaShop, much less yours. Happy enough to share once I know more.

[ghardin]

By default, HikaShop doesn't have a cost field, only the sales price field, since the main goal of HikaShop is to sell products, not to manage the purchase of inventory.

That is kind of shortsighted by HikaShop devs. That comment would tell me that they are not interested in making their product better and that they simply do not fully understand the buy/sell process. Their goal is to give you a stripped down product and then sell you enhanced versions. And that's OK. That's their business model. It does not work for me. I have tried Prestashop and it has the cost field that I need out of the box. But there are other things I use Joomla for and Prestashop does not have that capability. Likewise, EcWid.
No one selling multiple products can survive very long in the eCommerce environment without being aware of the cost/sell relationship. It is one of the reasons many eCommerce sites fail.
-

[jbeech]

. . . It should be out of the box. There are plenty of other features that a developer could . . .

I won't disagree in any manner - but - as you've discovered with Ecwid, and PrestaShop, it's that none of the ecommerce extensions are perfect. This is what I am telling you, for 'me' the most perfect was Hikashop, maybe it will be for you also. I am happy to help you suss this out despite having no dog in the hunt.

Anyway, it's in my accounting program where I input products costs (whether I derive them by buying a 3rd party's widgets like you do, or for the more complex products because we make them). But no matter what (whether I input the costs of stuff I buy, or make), product costs are maintained within accounting. And FWIW, usually I import these via CSV when I pick up a product line (so accounting is a natural place to originate these figures instead of the ecommerce extension).

So begin from my business determines selling price within accounting. In fact, one of my complaints about my existing Shopify-type site is it communicates certain data back-and-forth between accounting - but - I sill have to manually input product cost and selling price, both. So I grok your complaint. Just saying not doing your % calculation doesn't seem like a deal-breaker since you have an alternate solution.

As to his pricing-model (free vs paid), in that regard, it's not my circus, not my monkey (no dog in the hunt either way) but I do find his free, middle, and best business model quite acceptable. After all, everybody has to eat (and I want him to grow rich so he continues supporting the product upon which I am betting my business). Same as I want my accounting, shipping, and merchant service providers to remain stable because they're making money. I always remember what my grandfather taught me when he said, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

Anyway, that complaint with my existing Shopify-site is not the reason I am changing to Joomla/HikaShop . . . for me it is nice to maintain the same accounting program, the same shipping program, and the same merchant services because this makes the transition easier.

And this simply wasn't true of other Joomla ecommerce extensions (and like you, I looked at several). Being able to use the same tools I have been using for many years is a big deal for me, maybe it's not for you, I understand.

Anyway, and rehashing . . . the selling part matched to Joomla is what HikaShop does. And I shared with you a quick method of adding this feature to HikaShop by creating a custom field to input your product costs. That it maybe doesn't do an extra step of calculating a % . . . that's fine but a workaround is using your accounting program!

My advice is, don't let HikaShop's lack of doing your margin calculation obstruct you.

I say this because when I began comparing gross function of shopping carts, HikaShop was head and shoulders above the others for me (and may end up being so for you). Recapping, I have no financial interest so I don't really care what you do - but - I am glad to share with you what I know in hopes you find it helpful.

Personally, what I would find more useful is for HikaShop to derive the product cost[/] field from the accounting program, and for edits in HikaShop's selling price to be communicated back to accounting.

[ghardin]

I understand. If you can make Hikashop work for you, that's great. If you have a good accounting program that can interface with it, that is also great. If you are comfortable putting in that time to update prices and your accounting software, that is certainly up to you.
I think everyone here is looking at this as some really difficult configuration that has no value except to me and those like me. It is not. It is basic business 101. Since there does not seem to be any shopping cart developers participating in this discussion, we can debate this issue around forever and nothing will come of it.
My goal is statring this was to find out if anyone knew of an extension that would work like this our of the box and I got my answer.

[jbeech]

Hi ghardin,
It's been a couple days, have you found a cart to suit you, and which is it?

I've learned the HikaShop QB Extension is merely facilitating CSV export, it's not integrated in any way. However, as has become usual, when I reached out to HikaShop support, they very quickly responded with this;

There is no integration with QB by default in HikaShop. If you need an automated integration, aaatex has one: https://aaatex.com/[spam]_Shopping_ ... r_Cart.htm

If you're ok with something more manual, you have this plugin: https://www.hikashop.com/marketplace/pr ... sidev.html which allows you to generate CSV files of sales that you can then import in [spam].

. . . and of course, a CSV file (comma-separate values) is basically a plaint text format for storing spreadsheet data. This makes it easily read by other apps. So not just QB, but any accounting program. And yes, I realize someone with long business-experience like you already know this - but - I include it for those who may not.

Personally, I am quickly becoming spoiled by how quickly HikaShop respond. Bear in mind they're in Lyons and thus, 5 hours ahead of the east coast. Means as long as I ask by midnight, I have been getting answers the next day (usually in my inbox when I begin working). While test driving VirtuMart I was shoved to their forum for self-help so factor this in. Granted, with experience the need for support hopefully becomes nil. If I sound like a fan of HikaShop, it's become they have earned it by giving me the service I expect.

Note: in the above links QB (the well known accounting software) is replace by [spam]. After the link fails, manually enter the brand, and then the link works. If this all seems like nonsense, I'll close with this; this forum is free to use, and we're not privy to the trials and tribulations of dealing with spam.

So clue us in on what you ended up doing, please. I'm genuinely curious.

[ghardin]

Thanks for your interest jbeech. At this point I am working with PhocaCart. It does not have the cost configuration I wanted but I like the admin side and with only a handful of products, the cost issue is not so much of a problem. It is pretty easy to setup and the front end works well with Joomla. Phoca offers several templates for a shop that I think might be good. They also have a lot of other extensions and their support is also very quick and thorough. They are in the Czech Republic so I understand the time difference.
I am not so far into the process that I can't change now, so I might take another look at Hikashop with the custom field option you have described and see how that would work. I have a server setup where I can setup live test sites so I can experiment with both. I will let you know my findings.