Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by Jaydot » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:31 am

Updated eleven sites this week without a hitch.
Thank you!
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by layer8 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:23 am

If you session table is huge and your site is slow after update to J.3.8.5, you just need to go to your PHP configuration and set session.gc_probability to 1

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by ribo » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:50 am

After update from 3.7.4 to 3.7.5 there is still issue with too many guests in joomla online module when you use in session handler"database" . Please check the test that i made viewtopic.php?f=706&t=958997&p=3512762#p3512856
To be sure if with redis there is no issue i will tell you tomorrow.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by mbabker » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:19 pm

ribo wrote:After update from 3.7.4 to 3.7.5 there is still issue with too many guests in joomla online module when you use in session handler"database" . Please check the test that i made viewtopic.php?f=706&t=958997&p=3512762#p3512856
To be sure if with redis there is no issue i will tell you tomorrow.
This has already been explained in depth through viewtopic.php?f=9&t=958979#p3512585 and https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/is ... -363508044

Joomla is not arbitrarily deleting records from the session table anymore when you use the database session handler, this operation is deferred to native PHP handling (as is the case with all other handlers). Joomla will only purge old records from that table when not using the database session handler and on a much shorter frequency than before the 3.8.4 release (the odds of the cleanup operation being fired have dropped from 50% in a minute to 20%).
So long and thanks for all the fish.

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by ribo » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:39 pm

mbabker wrote: Joomla is not arbitrarily deleting records from the session table anymore when you use the database session handler, this operation is deferred to native PHP handling (as is the case with all other handlers).
Why it happens that? And what do you suggest? To not use database in session any more? And if we use php in session instead of database, will joomla be faster or slower?
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by layer8 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:44 pm

@mbabker I think you should add a new check for session.gc_probability in this part of the installation:
check.png
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by mbabker » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:31 pm

ribo wrote:
mbabker wrote: Joomla is not arbitrarily deleting records from the session table anymore when you use the database session handler, this operation is deferred to native PHP handling (as is the case with all other handlers).
Why it happens that? And what do you suggest? To not use database in session any more? And if we use php in session instead of database, will joomla be faster or slower?
Joomla has two types of session data: The "real" session data (whose storage location is defined by the session handler configuration), and "optional" session metadata (this is what lets you see a list of logged in users in the backend or use the Who's Online module). The optional metadata is stored in the session database table regardless of handler configuration, and if using the database session handler then the "real" data is stored to that table as well.

Arbitrarily running the `DELETE FROM session` query as was the behavior at 3.8.3 and earlier meant that Joomla was performing PHP's session garbage collection task, but ONLY for the database handler (if using any other handler, this same arbitrary cleanup task was not happening). So Joomla's code has been giving preferential treatment to the database handler because it stores two types of data into one database table and to correctly remove stale records it has to delete both the optional metadata and the real data.

This arbitrary `DELETE FROM session` query was hardcoded to have a probably of running on 50% of requests (if the current time was an even numbered second). And has been a result of performance issues on some sites. The changes introduced into 3.8.4:

- Changed this probability from 50% to 20%, running only on a second that is an even divisor of 5, resulting in a less frequent cleanup operation
- Changed the cleanup operation from running at the beginning of the request to the end of the request (after the HTML document is sent to the user's browser), giving a minor performance enhancement by not having this task block processing the rest of the request
- Changed the logic so that it truly only operates as a cleanup handler for the optional metadata aspect of that data storage, making the native PHP garbage collection handling consistent for all database handlers instead of having in essence a different behavior for the database storage versus other stores

No, the current state is not optimal. Yes, things are continuing to be changed. I have mentioned in several places here on the forum and on GitHub what needs to be done to get things to the most optimal state. These tasks include extracting the metadata management code to a separate PHP class so that we can create tools to run this cleanup outside of web requests (i.e. cron jobs), moving the optional data to a separate database table (which would remove the check if the database handler is in use because we would always need to manage this table versus it having shared responsibilities with the native PHP handling of sessions), or even going so far as to disabling this optional metadata tracking for sites not desiring these types of capabilities (which has rewards and tradeoffs alike).

If you have a site that is reliant on showing accurate "who's online" data, you have two viable options right now:

1) Change the session handler to any other handler; there should be minimal if any performance gain or tradeoff depending on option (if your site supports Memcached as an example, you're trading a network request to your database server for a network request to your Memcached server; using the "PHP" handler trades a network request to your database server for a filesystem read/write operation)
2) If using the database session handler, create a cron job which in effect mimics the behavior of https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/bl ... #L166-L185 which will in effect restore 3.8.3 and earlier behavior but will be based on a set schedule versus an arbitrary decision made by the web application class
So long and thanks for all the fish.

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Joomla 3.8.5: The _session database table is not cleaned and grow rapidly

Post by uurrvv55 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:37 pm

Hello!
After updating the site from joomla 3.8.3 to 3.8.5, the database table _session, began to rapidly increase ~ 400 MB per day and is not cleared at the set time, attendance is 3-5 K per day. The session handler is the database, I put the session handler - I do not have access to the admin panel.
Every day I clean the _session table manually, logs to / var / log - did not tell anything. Tell me how to get rid of the problem.

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Re: Joomla 3.8.5: The _session database table is not cleaned and grow rapidly

Post by sozzled » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:54 pm

Please see viewtopic.php?f=9&t=958979&p=3512954#p3512954 for the explanation and solution.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by uurrvv55 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:17 pm

layer8 wrote:If you session table is huge and your site is slow after update to J.3.8.5, you just need to go to your PHP configuration and set session.gc_probability to 1

Does not work, - garbage is not deleted

After updating the site from joomla 3.8.3 to 3.8.5, the database table _session, began to rapidly increase ~ 400 MB per day and is not cleared at the set time, attendance is 3-5 K per day. The session handler is the database, I put the session handler - I do not have access to the admin panel.
Every day I clean the _session table manually, logs to / var / log - did not tell anything. Tell me how to get rid of the problem.

Put session.gc_probability on 1 - does not work, garbage accumulates and remains in the database. Only after the end of the session re-enter the admin area

Since the first version of joomla 1.5, when I have not seen one, - the base for 1 day with 20 MB, grows to 400 MB!

Here's the cron cleans the component cache:
rm -r /home/admin/web/site.com/public_html/cache/com_component
Tell me which command to clear the _session table through cron? Debian Server 8.10

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by ribo » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:47 pm

Do you use smart search?
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by BillyS » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:28 pm

First off, I want to thank you all for maintaining Joomla, very much appreciated.

I also had my session handler set to database and it grew quite large. Looking at the above, I changed it to php and cleared the session table in the database. I noticed that the table is starting to grow again. That doesn't seem right to me. The session handler is definitely set to php. Is there some reason Joomla is still writing to the database table? Is there a php setting I should be setting? I tried finding information, but a lot of it is outdated.

BillyS

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by effrit » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:09 pm


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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by BillyS » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:13 pm

BillyS wrote:First off, I want to thank you all for maintaining Joomla, very much appreciated.

I also had my session handler set to database and it grew quite large. Looking at the above, I changed it to php and cleared the session table in the database. I noticed that the table is starting to grow again. That doesn't seem right to me. The session handler is definitely set to php. Is there some reason Joomla is still writing to the database table? Is there a php setting I should be setting? I tried finding information, but a lot of it is outdated.

BillyS
After initially growing, the session table appears to have stablized and appears to be working correctly at this point. Sorry about the false alarm.

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by undercash » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:19 pm

interesting post.. I noticed my site is slower since I updated (but I also updated some nginx configs so who knows..)

I checked my db and the session table is over 450mb which never happened before.

Also what never happened before was this server (a xeon 4/8t 3x250mb ssd in raid0 with 32gb ram) not to be able to handle the traffic. I suspected some kind of get flood attack on the moment but this might be as well the too many request of the cms with the db?

So what is the best setting for performance with the session? php or db?

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by leolam » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:52 pm

undercash wrote:interesting post.. I noticed my site is slower since I updated (but I also updated some nginx configs so who knows..)
You have different issues and not related to this post. Open your own Issue

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by undercash » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:43 pm

this is not what suggests previews posters here.. people with growing session db not being cleaned anymore. on github it is well explained that the mechanism has been changed after J!3.8.3

https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pull/19165
https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/issues/19146

etc

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by sozzled » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:23 pm

@undercash: please see viewtopic.php?f=9&t=958979&p=3512954#p3512954 for the explanation and solution.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by undercash » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:11 pm

yes I had read this but I can't really see the solution, what is the cronjob I am supposed to run?

also I switched to "none" to have session handled by php but it makes nginx crash on some components (easydiscuss in my case), so I d like to stick to 'database'..

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by liaskas » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:16 am

Hello everyone!

I also have the same problem here and i am stuck on joomla version 3.8.3

Changing to PHP handler is not an option for us, as there are 3 websites that share the same session table of one database (when loged in to one, you are logged in to the other two).

The disappointing part of this situation is that the problem is caused because something has changed on the new versions of Joomla, but Joomla does not bother on giving an exact answer of a solution.

I have read about a cron solution!

Where is the FILE that Joomla provides, so that we can call with a cronjob? Is there one? We are searching and searcing for as long as Joomla 3.8.5 exists without any luck!

Has anyone managed to make the cron solution work?
Can anyone provide the file that has to run through cronjob?

Please forgive me for my "tone" but am really disappointed! I am not a programmer, but this is not my fault. Joomla never required from me to write code!

Thank you in advance for your support!

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by gws » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:53 am

Did you see Effrit's post above?

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by undercash » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:04 pm

gws wrote:Did you see Effrit's post above?
looks interesting, I guess J! should include this (disabled at least) in the future releases by default

"This plugin will clean the sessions table if your server configuration does not perform the automatic PHP garbage collection properly.

This can happen if the Database handler is used, the session.gc_probability value is set to 0 and the user cannot modify this value directly."

I had this session.gc.probability set to 0 because I am using ubuntu, and also despite ubuntu is supposed to replace this with a cronjob (seen https://www.appnovation.com/blog/sessio ... ection-php), I haven't seen any cron configured for that purpose. So that means now to use Joomla, users need to make specifics configuration of their OS, which didn't happen before. many users on shared hosting won't be able to make such changes..

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by mbabker » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:22 pm

No, users won't be required to make server level configuration changes. With the 3.8.6 update, you only need to do something if you want to tweak the default configuration or execution of the cleanup processes, and if you're doing that odds are you do have the ability to schedule cron jobs (either through cPanel or managing your system's crontab) and inherently understand these configurations. Otherwise, the default is "well enough" and over 95% of users won't have a need to understand it in depth or change it.
So long and thanks for all the fish.

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by Newman123 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:30 am

HelpJ wrote:I still can not edit template files. I only see folders. 3.8.3 - no problem.
This happens to me occasionally, what I do, is just uninstall the advanced template manager, and then they open mysteriously..

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by Newman123 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 am

I've noticed that when I share an article on Facebook, the image doesn't show, does anybody know why that happens? It seems to be pretty random, it will do it one week, then not the next, it's kinda annoying, as I use infographics.. Any ideas??

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by leolam » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:38 pm

Newman123 wrote:I've noticed that when I share an article on Facebook, the image doesn't show, does anybody know why that happens? It seems to be pretty random, it will do it one week, then not the next, it's kinda annoying, as I use infographics.. Any ideas??
Open a thread in the "general Forum" and not in the discussion about Joomla 3.8.5. This is not an open discussion thread for individual issues encountered

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by Newman123 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:44 pm

leolam wrote:
Newman123 wrote:I've noticed that when I share an article on Facebook, the image doesn't show, does anybody know why that happens? It seems to be pretty random, it will do it one week, then not the next, it's kinda annoying, as I use infographics.. Any ideas??
Open a thread in the "general Forum" and not in the discussion about Joomla 3.8.5. This is not an open discussion thread for individual issues encountered

Leo 8)
Is that your way of saying you don't know the answer?? I was using Joomla 3.5 at the time, so I can't see how it wasn't deemed relevant, but each to their own... It seemed to sort itself out anyway after the update..

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.8.5

Post by mandville » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:58 pm

Newman123 wrote:Is that your way of saying you don't know the answer??
no, if he didnt know he would not have bothered posting
I was using Joomla 3.5 at the time, so I can't see how it wasn't deemed relevant,
so vaguely relevant and buried in a different topic that people would ignore it. would you stand in Rome railways station and ask when the train to Bath was ? you were [again] pointed to the better place to get your answer and yet you came back with an attack instead of saying "thanks but
Newman123 wrote: It seemed to sort itself out anyway after the update..
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