Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

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Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by pe7er » Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:47 am

Here you can discuss about the release of Joomla 4.2.2

See Announcement: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=996257
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by sozzled » Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:19 am

My requests to the forum moderators, to provide us a place to discuss RC versions of proposed new releases of J! are ignored. If the J! project developers are not interested in the discussions we have here on this forum then why bother to announce "please test this RC version" here on the forum? These RC versions are not rigorously tested. It appears that "testing" consists of installing/updating and seeing if it falls over. Better testing is when the general community uses these things and discusses them here on this forum.

If there are not going to be discussions about RC versions here on this forum, and if the developers are not interested in what the general community feels about them, then I think we can say good-bye to safeguarding future releases. The continuing division between developers and community only adds to our frustration.

I've updated one J! 4 website to J! 4.2.2. It hasn't fallen over yet.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by pe7er » Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:38 am

sozzled wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:19 am
My requests to the forum moderators, to provide us a place to discuss RC versions of proposed new releases of J! are ignored. If the J! project developers are not interested in the discussions we have here on this forum then why bother to announce "please test this RC version" here on the forum? These RC versions are not rigorously tested. It appears that "testing" consists of installing/updating and seeing if it falls over. Better testing is when the general community uses these things and discusses them here on this forum.
Where have you seen a "Joomla! 4.2.2 RC Released" announcement?
Kind Regards,
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by sozzled » Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:43 am

I'm talking about all the other RC announcements, @pe7er. There was no J! 4.2.2 "RC version". I'm saying that, when asking people to test software before it is is released, it would be a courtesy to everyone to allow us to discuss those things before they are released for general production usage.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by jgress- » Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:18 pm

sozzled wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:43 am
I'm talking about all the other RC announcements, @pe7er. There was no J! 4.2.2 "RC version". I'm saying that, when asking people to test software before it is is released, it would be a courtesy to everyone to allow us to discuss those things before they are released for general production usage.
Hi Michael!
The pre-release testing document that Peter includes in the "please test the RC" posts, tell testers to please open an issue on issues.joomla.org if they find any issues. Then the release team can address those items. Having a discussion on the forum if issues are found won't help the release team to address found issues. Having an issue opened will. That is why it's only an announcement and not an announcement discussion. https://docs.joomla.org/Pre-Release_Testing gives all the instructions on testing.
:) Jenn
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by leolam » Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:14 pm

Then the release team can address those items.
With all respect @Jenn (+ Team) , why is the Testing Team/Release Team not finding the crucial (!) issues as posted with the releases of Joomla 4.2.1 and 4.2.2? Do we have actually a Joomla Release Team that is ACTUALLY testing (and functioning) new releases at present?

Asking since I was part of such a team that was dysfunctional by a lack of Procedures and Leadership (of that Team and Production Lead) in those times.

Since so many issues did arise with these 2 latest J4.x releases I am wondering how the "testing" is being done these days. Curious since we see so many basic issues arise after releases that should have been found with easy proper testing?

Please be so kind to enlighten my day? (just curiosity, no offense meant....)

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by pathwalker » Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:11 am

leolam wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:14 pm
Then the release team can address those items.
With all respect @Jenn (+ Team) , why is the Testing Team/Release Team not finding the crucial (!) issues as posted with the releases of Joomla 4.2.1 and 4.2.2? Do we have actually a Joomla Release Team that is ACTUALLY testing (and functioning) new releases at present?
Agree with Leo. There shall be test procedures in place, I know this is a hectic job. Sorry to say that there is no shortcut to quality software release. We can try to automate as much as possible on the testing but before we can do that, we will have to do it manually.

I have picked up a serious issue after upgrade from 4.1.5 to 4.2.2. For those who are using two factors authentication, the upgrade will fail them big time. Check my post at viewtopic.php?f=808&t=996475

Good luck!
Last edited by toivo on Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: mod note: removed unnecessary quoting

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by toivo » Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:58 am

pathwalker wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:11 am
I have picked up a serious issue after upgrade from 4.1.5 to 4.2.2. For those who are using two factors authentication, the upgrade will fail them big time. Check my post at viewtopic.php?f=808&t=996475
That is not the case at all. Just installed Joomla 4.1.5 and no third party extensions or templates. Forced two factor authentication for registered users at the front and tested the front end login, which worked all right. Then updated the site to 4.2.2 and the front end user was able to login to the site using the same two factor authentication method.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by sozzled » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:55 am

Thanks for taking the time to create a clean J! 4.1.5 website, verify that 2FA works, updating it to J! 4.2.2 and confirming that 2FA still works. Perhaps, before people jump to conclusions about the "update" breaking their websites apart, they should do the same thing themselves. I, personally, don't use 2FA and while I may not use it it's nice to know that this feature works. 8)

I updated the last of my J! 4.1.5 websites to J! 4.2.2 yesterday and I haven't noticed any new problems as a consequence. :)
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by pathwalker » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:38 am

toivo wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:58 am
pathwalker wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:11 am
I have picked up a serious issue after upgrade from 4.1.5 to 4.2.2. For those who are using two factors authentication, the upgrade will fail them big time. Check my post at viewtopic.php?f=808&t=996475
That is not the case at all. Just installed Joomla 4.1.5 and no third party extensions or templates. Forced two factor authentication for registered users at the front and tested the front end login, which worked all right. Then updated the site to 4.2.2 and the front end user was able to login to the site using the same two factor authentication method.
I have not tried this method. I have mixed users with and without two-factor authentication. To force all users to two-factor may take a while. It was a disaster when the site goes down after upgrade.

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by pathwalker » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:43 am

sozzled wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:55 am
Thanks for taking the time to create a clean J! 4.1.5 website, verify that 2FA works, updating it to J! 4.2.2 and confirming that 2FA still works. Perhaps, before people jump to conclusions about the "update" breaking their websites apart, they should do the same thing themselves. I, personally, don't use 2FA and while I may not use it it's nice to know that this feature works. 8)

I updated the last of my J! 4.1.5 websites to J! 4.2.2 yesterday and I haven't noticed any new problems as a consequence. :)
Yes, the 2FA is working like in 4.1.5. I have no doubt about it. The breaking was causing a nightmare to me. As the school teachers could not access the system for a day, they couldn't update school work. Luckily the system can be restore using the work around solution. It saved me big time! ;)

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by gilplane » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:44 am

Hello,
This situation is really damaging for the Joomla project because it creates doubt and clearly a loss of confidence. Trust is essential.
I believe to note that many, of which me, did not make this update Joomla 4.2.2. This for fear of a crash of our site...
Generally during the update I put a little thank you message... and I'm not a compulsive complainer...
Many Joomla users (probably a very large majority) just want a reliable and functional CMS, not more apocalyptic functionality (arguing for volunteers?). My feeling detailed here viewtopic.php?f=9&t=996103&start=30#p3669377
Another example of user sentiment on the popular Rockettheme templates forum https://rockettheme.com/forum/gantry-so ... -in-joomla -4-2-2
Very sadly

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by pe7er » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:13 am

gilplane wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:44 am
I believe to note that many, of which me, did not make this update Joomla 4.2.2. This for fear of a crash of our site...
Generally during the update I put a little thank you message... and I'm not a compulsive complainer...
Many Joomla users (probably a very large majority) just want a reliable and functional CMS, not more apocalyptic functionality (arguing for volunteers?).
This is why Joomla needs more testers with various different server setups and installed Joomla extensions. Usually there will be a Release Candidate posted in the Announcements forum. Due to a bug in Joomla 4.2.1, the 4.2.2 was released a few days later, unfortunately without a Release Candidate.

If you want to help preventing future issues, please keep an eye on the RC versions which will usually be available a week before the real version is released. And please test it on a copy of your website. It's good for your own website but other Joomla users will also really appreciate it.
Kind Regards,
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by sozzled » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:18 am

pe7er wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:13 am
... and please test it on a copy of your website. It's good for your own website but other Joomla users will also really appreciate it.
How do "other J! users" know that RC versions have been tested? ???

The way that I find out about bugs, etc., is by watching this forum. If RC versions are announced but there are no discussions or comments like, "I've tested the RC version and it works", we don't know a lot about these new releases. I think the point that we're trying to make here is not about a shortage of testers; the point that's being made is about the quality of testing and the resultant lack of confidence.
Last edited by sozzled on Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by pe7er » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:23 am

sozzled wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:18 am
pe7er wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:13 am
If you want to help preventing future issues, please keep an eye on the RC versions which will usually be available a week before the real version is released. And please test it on a copy of your website. It's good for your own website but other Joomla users will also really appreciate it.
How do "other J! users" know that RC versions have been tested? ???
Because software that has been tested on more different environments will have less bugs.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by sozzled » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:27 am

But how do we know that release candidate software has actually been tested on different environments? That's my question. One way we can find out is to allow the community to discuss release candidate versions here on this forum. That would be a very simple thing to do, wouldn't it?

Allowing discussions about release candidate versions will show that people are actually testing the new versions before they're released. :)
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by pe7er » Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:39 am

pe7er wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:13 am
gilplane wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:44 am
I believe to note that many, of which me, did not make this update Joomla 4.2.2. This for fear of a crash of our site...
Generally during the update I put a little thank you message... and I'm not a compulsive complainer...
Many Joomla users (probably a very large majority) just want a reliable and functional CMS, not more apocalyptic functionality (arguing for volunteers?).
This is why Joomla needs more testers with various different server setups and installed Joomla extensions. Usually there will be a Release Candidate posted in the Announcements forum. Due to a bug in Joomla 4.2.1, the 4.2.2 was released a few days later, unfortunately without a Release Candidate.

If you want to help preventing future issues, please keep an eye on the RC versions which will usually be available a week before the real version is released. And please test it on a copy of your website. It's good for your own website but other Joomla users will also really appreciate it.
Actually, there is a Joomla! 4.2.3 RC available for testing: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=996589
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Re: Discuss announcement of Joomla! 4.2.3 RC

Post by sozzled » Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:51 pm

I'm not interested in the announcement here about J! 4.2.3 RC unless there's a topic here to discuss it. Because there are fifty or more "issues" closed with J! 4.2.3, I think it's optimistic to suggest that everything can be tested satisfactorily in one week. Good luck. :)
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Re: Discuss announcement of Joomla! 4.2.3 RC

Post by pe7er » Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:52 am

sozzled wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:51 pm
I'm not interested in the announcement here about J! 4.2.3 RC unless there's a topic here to discuss it. Because there are fifty or more "issues" closed with J! 4.2.3, I think it's optimistic to suggest that everything can be tested satisfactorily in one week. Good luck. :)
Thank you.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by cmbay » Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:19 pm

pe7er wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:39 am
Actually, there is a Joomla! 4.2.3 RC available for testing...
I have started to test version 4.2.3-rc1. The Pre-Release Testing page mentions the docs.google.com CMS Release Checksheet. I do not see a listing in the bottom row of tabs on that page for this release candidate. Version 4.2.1 is there, but no 4.2.3-rc1.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by sozzled » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:10 am

Two known bugs with J! 4.2.2 (that I know of):

1) Articles - Categories module causes "Serialization of 'Closure' is not allowed" error under certain conditions.
2) System - Privacy Consent and MFA plugins cause an infinite redirection loop.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by gilplane » Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:18 pm

pe7er wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:13 am
gilplane wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:44 am
I believe to note that many, of which me, did not make this update Joomla 4.2.2. This for fear of a crash of our site...
Generally during the update I put a little thank you message... and I'm not a compulsive complainer...
Many Joomla users (probably a very large majority) just want a reliable and functional CMS, not more apocalyptic functionality (arguing for volunteers?).
This is why Joomla needs more testers with various different server setups and installed Joomla extensions. Usually there will be a Release Candidate posted in the Announcements forum. Due to a bug in Joomla 4.2.1, the 4.2.2 was released a few days later, unfortunately without a Release Candidate.

If you want to help preventing future issues, please keep an eye on the RC versions which will usually be available a week before the real version is released. And please test it on a copy of your website. It's good for your own website but other Joomla users will also really appreciate it.
Thank you for that answer. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I have the skills to test RC versions. My level of expertise is low.
I don't have a lot of time either. I know it's wrong.
There are many of us in this case and there is obviously a lack of beta tester volunteers. Maybe this is also due to the evolution of Joomla.
It seems to me that over the years Joomla becomes more and more complex and heavy with too often catastrophic bugs during updates. As indicated in this message viewtopic.php?f=9&t=996103&start=30#p3669377 it would seem desirable to me to have a very stable and secure basic version of Joomla (with updates safe day). And add all the features via official and optional components. Many users only use the basic functions of Joomla (article, categories, menu, simple templates...).
A little feedback and I'm not saying this to annoy anyone but a plumber friend asked me to make him a simple little site, I'll probably do it with Wordpress...

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Re: Discuss announcement of Joomla! 4.2.3 RC

Post by sozzled » Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:59 am

The announcement about J! 4.2.3 RC states:
pe7er wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:35 am
The Production Team has a Release Candidate for Joomla 4.2.3 that is ready for testing. The more people that test in different environments, the better the release can be next week (scheduled for 27th September 2022 provided we don't find any major issues in the RC).

DO NOT TEST ON A LIVE/PRODUCTION SITE but rather on a copy of a production site with the owners permission.

Directions on how to test and what to test can be found at https://docs.joomla.org/Pre-Release_Testing.
See the list of bugs addressed by this release: https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/mi ... 7?closed=1
Download packages: https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/re ... /4.2.3-rc1

Again, DO NOT TEST ON A LIVE/PRODUCTION SITE! Rather, test on a copy of a website that you have permission to use.

Thank you for helping Production test this next release of Joomla.
The pre-release testing instructions state (among other things):
Test, Test, Test

Test all the things you normally do on your website. Check the Backend and Frontend. To assist, you can also test items on the release checklist. Each release will have a new tab in the spreadsheet. Simply add your name starting in column D and report pass/fail in the cell associated with each item to test. The CMS Release Team is working on a component to make this easier.
As noted by @cmbay, there is no place for people to use the checklist, to add their name, and report whether their tests pass/fail. We need to ask the question: "Who is testing J! 4.2.3 RC, what 'checklist' of tests are they using, and is J! 4.2.3 RC really likely to be released in a few days from now because the 'instructions' do not seem to make sense?"

I am not going to test J! 4.2.3 RC unless there is a way for me to "test all the things I normally do on my website ... backend and frontend ... [and use] the release checklist [that hasn't been updated for J! 4.2.3 RC]."
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by toivo » Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:32 am

cmbay wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:19 pm
I do not see a listing in the bottom row of tabs on that page for this release candidate. Version 4.2.1 is there, but no 4.2.3-rc1.
Now there is at least a draft 4.2.3-rc checklist. It is not too late, feel free to edit the spreadsheet in docs.google.com, add your name to one of the columns under Names of Testers, run some tests with the Release Candidate 2, both the Full Package and the Update Package.
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Re: Re: Discuss announcement of Joomla! 4.2.3 RC2

Post by sozzled » Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:45 am

I wasn't aware there was a RC 2 version. It wasn't announced. Thanks for updating the information about the checklist that I see was updated.

This adds further weight to my request that, when RC versions are announced "[ready] for testing", we need to be able to discuss these things.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.2

Post by toivo » Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:12 am

It is RC-2 development version only, but it has all the latest commits from PRs applied daily.
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Re Discuss announcement of Joomla! 4.2.3 RC

Post by sozzled » Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:20 am

Can we have a discussion topic to discuss J! 4.2.3 RC, please? This thread is confusing because people seem to be talking about different things.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 4.2.3 RC

Post by sozzled » Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:34 am

I used the checklist (added a few extra "everyday" items) for J! 4.2.3 RC. I spent 1¾ hours going through a few of the items to be tested. I stopped testing after the first failure I encountered.

Note: Only two people (@toivo and me) have used the checklist.
“If you think I’m wrong then say, ‘I think you’re wrong.’ If you say ‘You’re wrong!’, how do you know?”
Walking the talk: https://j4xdemo.enduring.com.au
:)


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