Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

A place to discuss recent announcements made by the Joomla! Core Team. Let's hear what you have to say.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby VasyaV001 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:46 pm

johnmwo wrote:Hi,

Just so I understand what I need to do now, please can someone explain the situation for me. I have 2 sites with many many featured articles and I need new featured articles to appear at the top of the list automatically and continue to display at the top on the front page of the sites automatically.

I upgraded to 3.6.0 when it came out and have now reverted to 3.5.1.

My first question is does 3.6.1 provide the behaviour I require that went missing in 3.6.0? If yes, great. If no, do I have to stick with 3.5.1?

Next. If I do have to upgrade to 3.6.1 what are the steps I should follow and if possible, please can you describe the steps in a short "idiots guide".

Any help on this issue would be really very much appreciated.

Thanks,
John

Same problems here.

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby Webdongle » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:20 pm

itoctopus wrote:...
I know that there are some culture barriers here but there must be some general easy to follow etiquette that we can all follow when treating people on this forum. Welcoming a new user of Joomla by telling him that he should contribute to Joomla or else keep his mouth shut is not, IMHO, the right way to do things.....
Generally if a new user has the 'etiquette' of jumping straight in criticising then telling them to contribute instead of being negative is equally the correct 'etiquette'.

Help is given freely and willingly to users who ask for it. Unfortunately there are some users who put no effort into fixing imperfections but are quick to criticise. However, many of us who not only that give free help but also spend hours testing and debugging the code ... find it extremely rude for users (new and old) to criticise the efforts that we make.

imho the users who spend hours testing and debugging the code have every right to rebuke those who just criticise. If a user has a problem then they can ask for help but to just winge is just plain rude and will get the appropriate response.

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby itoctopus » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:27 pm

If you label any person who says he has an issue and who doesn't want to contribute to Joomla as "rude" who deserves a "rude" answer then obviously you are part of the problem. Not many people out there want to test the code and not many people have the skills to test. These people are just reporting issues they're seeing - there is no problem about that whatsoever.

Joomla and support on this forum should be unconditional: contributors shouldn't care if the person intends on supporting Joomla in anyway - my job - your job, as contributors here, is to offer genuine help, and not to criticize/ridicule others. That user was ridiculed by 3 people - and for what? For saying that he has a problem with a counter-intuitive feature in Joomla 3.6? For "criticizing" Joomla? Really?

That user was actually offering help to Joomla with his post - he was telling us that in a real environment, that new "feature" is annoying - if I'm not mistaken, many others complained about the same issue. This means that the developers should listen, and not jump in on this forum and agree that the user should either test the feature when in alpha/beta or keep his mouth shut. Constructive criticism on this forum should never be a problem - in fact, it is something healthy that should be encouraged. It means that users are providing their feedback which makes the whole product better. User feedback is a main pillar in software development.

Again, increasing (and not shrinking) the userbase is the most important thing for Joomla. Answering cleanly, calmly, and professionally to questions on this forum is one way to increase userbase.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby Webdongle » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:21 pm

itoctopus wrote:If you label any person who says he has an issue and who doesn't want to contribute to Joomla as "rude" who deserves a "rude" answer then obviously you are part of the problem.....
That is not what I said.
"Help is given freely and willingly to users who ask for it. Unfortunately there are some users who put no effort into fixing imperfections but are quick to criticise."




itoctopus wrote:...
Joomla and support on this forum should be unconditional: contributors shouldn't care if the person intends on supporting Joomla in anyway - my job - your job, as contributors here, is to offer genuine help, and not to criticize/ridicule others. ....
I do not have a 'job' at Joomla ... I give free help to those who ask for it. You keep missing the point that new (and old) users shouldn't criticise the errors in Joomla unless they are prepared to help resolve them. Those users aski for help instead of criticising.



itoctopus wrote:...
That user was actually offering help to Joomla with his post - he was telling us that in a real environment, that new "feature" is annoying - if I'm not mistaken, many others complained about the same issue. ....
My comment was not about that user nor was it about you (who btw often criticises in bugsquad but always refuse to give actual help) nor was it about users who genuinely ask for help. My comment was a general comment about users who are negative with their criticism but take no positive action to assist a remedy.





itoctopus wrote:...
Again, increasing (and not shrinking) the userbase is the most important thing for Joomla. Answering cleanly, calmly, and professionally to questions on this forum is one way to increase userbase.
You keep missing the point. My comment was not about users who ask for help ... it was about users who criticise without doing anything constructive. Users who post like that are rude and disrespectful to those who spend hours improving Joomla. Those users who criticise without doing anything constructive will always (and justifiably so) receive a curt response.

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby mbabker » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:50 pm

Well since this has already been taken off topic, why not continue?

I wasn't "ridiculing" anybody. Only adding on to an already provided answer. OK, Leo's wording was a bit strong but if you've come to know him from reading his posts they're always a little strong. Admittedly it's not the most "friendly" approach at times, but the point gets made more often than not. The suggestion was for an early feedback section, both Leo and I provided information about how this is already possible and ways to get involved with this. If that's ridiculing because I didn't run right back to the folks I work with on keeping the sites updated to implement a comment system to attach to the download page, then I'll gladly ridicule away while providing actual useful answers.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby itoctopus » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:59 pm

Actually you keep missing the point that Joomla users can criticize anything in Joomla - that's healthy and it's how you make excellent products: developers listening to users.

I won't be dragged into anything personal here. My message is that everyone should be treated with respect and professionalism here, regardless of what they say, if you don't agree, then that's your decision.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby sovainfo » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:00 pm

Not only that, it is exactly what this thread is supposed to be dealing with. And not what it is used for now. Suggest to abide by the forum rules and create a topic in the proper forum, if you must. This board is about Joomla! !
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby mbabker » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:08 pm

The part that I disagree with is you considering us "ridiculing" anyone when we said there isn't an explicit need for an "early feedback forum on the download page". That's exactly what this forum and other communication channels (either project owned or "sponsored" or other community locations) is for, that's exactly why the development process is open in all ways except for security patches (for what I hope would be obvious reasons), and that's exactly what the release FAQ category for every release on the docs wiki is for. I'd rather have the criticism anyone has come in on one of the already established bajillion and seven communication platforms the project has and not be convinced to sign up for and maintain yet another one, and I'd rather that be constructive criticism and not the "Joomla released an update, it breaks all the things, WordPress is so much amazeballs at updates, get on their level, I'm moving all my clients away because you all suck" type of criticism that everyone likes to post.
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby VasyaV001 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:30 pm

I'm not new in Joomla. :) Started from Joomla v1 at 2005 (moving from mambo). But so far people how coming in this forum to get help with some bugs. As you can see my activity on the forum. :) 99% reading than writing. :)
Back to technical problem, personally for me it's 2 big bugs: Article ordering and Login problem. It's only reason I do the post, to get your attention for the problems and really don't like conversation about form of discuss on the forum itself.
Sorry
PS. ver 3.6.2 - Article order doesn't work right. :(

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby johnmwo » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:01 am

Hi,

Your discussion is a good one. However I think you need to think bigger than whether people help on releases or not. I give my time to the community where I now live by running a blog and helping to run a golf society. Both of these activities involve websites that use software that you produce.

I thank you a great deal for all your efforts. It has helped my community for many years and I hope it will continue to do so.

I feel that you cannot just measure whether someone has tested a release or not. You need to think about whether some people are using their free time using the products of your hard labour to improve their environment.

Now back to my specific issue. There is a major problem with ordering of featured articles that has occurred from 3.6.0 onwards that I feel that many users need to get resolved somehow. Also, once the solution is there they need simple instructions on the steps they must take to implement the solution.

If you do not address this issue soon I feel that it is not good for your user base. I feel that you will have a significant number of disappointed users of your normally excellent free service.

As mentioned before on my earlier post any help with this matter would really be much appreciated.

Once again, many thanks for all your hard work. It really has helped me a lot in my life.

John

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby apsilva » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:38 am

IIRC there is already a proposed Pull Request to improve the ordering.
So, go there and test if all works fine so it can be integrated in the next joomla release.

See https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pull/11139

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby Webdongle » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:00 am

johnmwo wrote:...
I feel that you cannot just measure whether someone has tested a release or not. You need to think about whether some people are using their free time using the products of your hard labour to improve their environment...
That I have never disputed ... what I object to is those who criticise the bugs in Joomla without helping to fix them. Constructive criticism is great feed back but negative criticism by those who don't help in that area is what I object to.

The ordering of the Featured Articles is important and hopefully the devs will sort it out

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby logocrunch » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:54 am

Joomla is good framework

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby atulsingh » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:04 am

Joomla 3.6.0 Alpha 1 I can't install the "Install form Web" plugin.I have tried to follow this discussion.

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby toivo » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:36 pm

atulsingh wrote:Joomla 3.6.0 Alpha 1 I can't install the "Install form Web" plugin.I have tried to follow this discussion.
That is a developer test version, old and it cannot be upgraded.

Joomla 3.6.2 is the latest version: https://www.joomla.org/announcements/re ... eased.html
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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby johnmwo » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:14 pm

Webdongle wrote:That I have never disputed ... what I object to is those who criticise the bugs in Joomla without helping to fix them. Constructive criticism is great feed back but negative criticism by those who don't help in that area is what I object to.


I know how you feel. Sometimes I feel that the members of our golf society do not appreciate all the work we do to improve their lives. Some people always find something to complain about and forget the good stuff. The thing that keeps me going is remembering the good comments and trying to forget the bad ones.

Even though I was a software developer in the 80s and managed major IT projects and programmes through to when I retired in the early 2000s I feel I would now be unable to assist much in testing Joomla releases. However I do feel that I should be able to to say what I think about any big mistakes made in the Joomla release cycles. Without fear of being shouted down.

From my perspective the current problem with ordering of featured articles is the biggest error I have seen in Joomla releases since I started using Joomla many years ago.

I am really grateful for everything the Joomla community has done for me. I feel all your efforts have made a major impact on the community feeling in the small town in Spain where I now live. Thanks again but please can you resolve the featured articles ordering problem as soon as possible. So I can upgrade to the latest version as soon as I can.

Also, as a retired IT developer, team leader, project manager and programme manager my one other piece of advice is never underestimate the stupidity of your users. Wherever possible please try to give us, your naive users, some simple, understandable guidance on what we should do if the featured articles problem has an impact on websites we support.

Perhaps something along the lines of "Stick with 3.5.1 for the moment. We hope to fix the issue in version xxxxxx. When it is fixed we will publish some information on how to upgrade - including whether you can upgrade straight to the latest version or whether there is some more complicated upgrade process we will have to describe in more detail."

I feel that a statement like this would be a great way of keeping more of the community of users of your great product on your side.

Many thanks,

John

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby coaleb » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:29 pm

I really don't want to fan the flames here, nor get even more off topic, but I see two sides to this whole 'ridicule' issue:

#1 The User:
Using Joomla can be downright frustrating sometimes. It's a beautiful thing when it's working properly, which is 98% of the time, but when something goes south it makes you really just want to take a hammer to your computer screen. Therefor it's completely understandable that The User, who comes to this forum looking for solutions, is upset. Many of them have spent hours trying to figure out the problem themselves, then show up here as a last ditch effort to find a solution. They're beat up, angry, and probably have a client blowing up their phone. It's an EMERGENCY!

#2 The Contributor:
These are folks who have selflessly given insane amounts of personal time to build an awesome CMS that works flawlessy 98% of the time, and when something breaks, they're the ones who fix it. When people want new features, they're the ones that make it happen. Then during their "free" time they pop into the forum to get feedback and to help The User, and they see this:

"I Updated my site and it doesn't work. THIS IS AN EMBARRASSMENT! Any fix?"

Maybe not exactly like that, but I've seen a lot like that. With the sheer volume and tone of the posts in this forum, it's no wonder The Contributor is a bit "short" sometimes. And maybe some of you have noticed that it's the same handful of people helping thousands of Users in this forum?

So let's try this:

The User: Understand that The Contributor has, and continues to, sacrifice a huge amount of personal time to make Joomla freely available for you to use and even profit from. They are not paid staff, you paid nothing for their help, and they do not "owe" you anything. Joomla does not come with any guarantees, you use it at your own risk. Also, you get more with honey than with vinegar, try saying "thank you" once in a while.

The Contributor: Keep in mind that The User's website is very personal for them, and that when something's wrong it tends to make them very emotional. There's a fine line between criticism and feedback, and many would argue that they are one and the same. Don't take it personal. Remember that The User has thrown their lot in with Joomla. Welcome them with open arms. You need help, and many of The Users are your future Contributors.

Remember the Joomla means "All Together," and that's the only way the project will continue exist. Things get tense sometimes, but don't let it get personal. If we respect each other and help each other, the community will thrive.

Cheers,
Brian

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby johnmwo » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:39 am

Well written coaleb. I agree with you 100%.

Also, thanks again for all the hard work from everyone who works on Joomla development and support. I feel I need to say thanks many times as the work you do is so good and is really appreciated by me.

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby dejongone » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:44 pm

I have updated to 3.6.0. as advised but the update for the update component does not appear in the updatepage.
Earlier I have updated 5 sites the same way but then the update for the updater popped up after cache clear.

Can I find the update files somewhere else or is there a other way?

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby Webdongle » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:07 pm

Click 'Clear cache' then 'Find updates'

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby dejongone » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:09 pm

Thank you for your reaction done that several times now but it doesn't help

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby dejongone » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:19 pm

Well it is sorted now. So cache it was.

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby coaleb » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:37 pm

Hi dejongone, welcome to the Joomla Forums!

Sometimes when you can't find the update, it's because you already have it.

Go to Extensions > Manage > Manage, do a search for Joomla! Update and find the Joomla! Update Component version. If your component version is 3.6.1, then you're probably good to go. No component update required.

More often than not, it's the cache. Anyways, I'm glad you got it sorted! :)

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Re: Discuss Joomla! 3.6.0

Postby dejongone » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:09 am

Coaleb,

Thank you for your answer. I did search and found the 3.6.1. update and took my change. After update to Joomla 3.6.2 the updater was also updated so I tought it's ok then in this way. Thank you for confirming that. So I do not have to worry about the db anymore.


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