Discuss Joomla! 3.9.14

[hehemrin]

@leolam I read what Michael wrote. But as I understand he has not decided that those are security fixes, actually he opposes to it. So he cannot have been directly taking the decision to classify them as security fixes. And as you wrote, he is a former Lead Developer, and I assume he has not been directly involved in this release as leader or in the leadership team. But someone, or as a team (I do not know how the org works), have decided them as security fixes. And to me, it seems interesting to hear his/her/their reasoning to actually classify as security fixes.

[H13]

What I see positive about this debate is that at the moment the biggest problem with Joomla! 3 version is how to correctly mark new release.

If we would have dealt with such things in Joomla! 4 version, it would be great.

[leolam]

The current CMS Release Team https://volunteers.joomla.org/teams/cms-release-team. The one who is deciding this is a fellow called Harald Leithner who 'cuddled himself up' into the Joomla hierarchy for the past 1 1/2 years.

He mentioned once in the team when I was a Member that he does not post on the forums (not his level I believe) Login to Joomlers and send him a message. Maybe (uhhh most likely not) the Maestro himself will reply.....(if he just wishes to communicate with plebs/users like you and me) but he is a very busy person as a Production Department Coordinator so I would be surprised if any of them replies at all

Cheers

Leo

[Webdongle]

... But someone, or as a team (I do not know how the org works), have decided them as security fixes. And to me, it seems interesting to hear his/her/their reasoning to actually classify as security fixes.

He/she is refusing to "their reasoning to actually classify as security fixes"

... and when confronted the release lead would not offer an explanation as to the nature of these changes. ...

[bembelimen]

Don't forget the J4 Template development was kept hidden.

Could you please stop telling your untrue tales again and again, repeatation does not make them true.

The one who is deciding this is a fellow called Harald Leithner who 'cuddled himself up' into the Joomla hierarchy for the past 1 1/2 years.

Could you please go more into details here? I really would like to cuddle myself up, too.

So what I need from you are names, whom I have to cuddle, methods I have to use to get a high position.

Based on your post, you seem to be a well informed person, so please help me out here.

[leolam]

Based on your post, you seem to be a well informed person, so please help me out here.

Uhhh yep I was a Member of the CMS Release Team and the Joomla Bug Squad till a few month's ago. Till then I was well informed (I thought at least)

@bembelimen Please do not troll? It is not funny at all?

Leo

[H13]

Hi Leo,

I don't have Joomla! "inside" information, but it seems to me that having a "job" (position) in Joomla! is no win, but it's more of a punishment. A person in such a position is slandered and humiliated. And mostly nobody wants to do it. So, I would change this term: "cuddled himself up" for another, e.g. "dedicated his time".

Joomla! 3 is OK in my opinion, we should rather pray that someone would dedicate his/her time to complete Joomla! 4.

[leolam]

So, I would change this term: "cuddled himself up" for another".

Sorry Jan, I was there....No change therefor. I agree that this person does a lot of good work as well but that does not change the 'cuddle'

You are right though that any job in any team in Joomla is always a crucifix....

Leo

[H13]

:-) Using your words: I pray and I hope, someone will cuddle himself/herself up into Joomla! hierarchy and finally brings Joomla! 4 to a stable version. Big thanks to Harald for keeping Joomla! 3 up to date, but we have a really different problem - Joomla! 4.

[leolam]

Merry Christmas ;-)

Leo

[Webdongle]

... A person in such a position is slandered and humiliated. ...

I've been on the brunt end of those people. Having given much of my time testing . Then gradually I was treated as a m oron. I did not expect thanks but at one time I was given some respect for my efforts. However, slowly (but surely) some of the devs started showing much disrespect to those of us who could only test. It got to a point where I was hounded so much that I decided to leave. I have witnessed such behaviour aimed at Leo as well.

[H13]

Looks like Joomlers can't afford to enjoy Christmas and New Year. We need someone who will summarize what all has to be done to release Joomla! 4 Beta. To explain what branches are active and what needs to be tested (e.g. new admin template branche, etc.). We need another PBF day. Joomla! 4 is two or three years behind its release.

[Webdongle]

... To explain what branches are active and what needs to be tested (e.g. new admin template branche, etc.). ...

Good luck finding testers that will regularly give their time testing.

[leolam]

We need someone who will summarize what all has to be done to release Joomla! 4 Beta. To explain what branches are active and what needs to be tested (e.g. new admin template branche, etc.).

We do have a Joomla 4 Release Lead ....So you suggest to replace him? I do think George is a very good operator but he has not the people around him perhaps? But please....that is for another discussion. This discussion is about the release of Joomla 3.9.14! Let's not mix it up pls?

Leo

[H13]

Good luck finding testers that will regularly give their time testing.

Common users are simply confused, they just don't know how they can help. We need more events like PBF where such users will be exactly instructing what to do.

I do not understand the structure and function of OSM, I do not understand "bureaucratic" obstacles regarding developing Joomla! but if this will be not changed, it is really hard to expect that there will be some volunteers ready to help. Possible new volunteers have no idea why, to whom and how to help.

[H13]

We do have a Joomla 4 Release Lead ....So you suggest to replace him? I do think George is a very good operator but he has not the people around him perhaps? But please....that is for another discussion. This discussion is about the release of Joomla 3.9.14! Let's not mix it up pls?

George does a great job.

Yes, back to this topic. This discussion about 3.9.14 is meaningless and useless. We should focus on Joomla! 4 discussion and stop solving things that are really unimportant at the moment.

[H13]

Let's summarize it.

- Joomla! Release Team released a security release.
- Michael said and explained it was wrong
- They exchanged opinions and Joomla! Release Team either took this into account for the next release or not.


There is no further need to discuss this or?

[bembelimen]

Based on your post, you seem to be a well informed person, so please help me out here.

@bembelimen Please do not troll? It is not funny at all?

For you it is trolling. For me it is a classification of your intentions. And your answer proved me right. You're on a private revenge trip against the release lead and it seems you don't shy away from such disrespectful posts.

With unproofed claims etc. So I think at least one should speak up and put in the correct context of your post.

Your happy troll...

[leolam]

No need to discuss further indeed

Leo

[leolam]

Based on your post, you seem to be a well informed person, so please help me out here.

@bembelimen Please do not troll? It is not funny at all?

For you it is trolling. For me it is a classification of your intentions. And your answer proved me right. You're on a private revenge trip against the release lead and it seems you don't shy away from such disrespectful posts.

What a stupid and laughable remark... 6 posts and you think you know it all? (or just a disguise on the forums from a long-term user?) Your reply is funny and makes me laugh. Enjoy the ride

Leo

[H13]

Why cannot we be more welcoming and guide/help new members properly instead of directing them ?

We should not direct them but prepare for them everything to easily test. (like it was done on PBF events).

Times have changed, and today to test something, it's no longer enough to install Xampp and Joomla!, but also composer, npm and other "terrible" tools.


Only welcome is not possible today. :-(

[H13]

What a stupid and laughable remark... 6 posts and you think you know it all? (or just a disguise on the forums from a long-term user?) Your reply is funny and makes me laugh. Enjoy the ride

Only to inform you. User bembelimen is real Jooma! hero of year 2019. He stands behind that successful event - PBF, the only global event this year that has helped the Joomla! project immensely.

[leolam]

User bembelimen is real Jooma! hero of year 2019. He stands behind that successful event - PBF, the only global event this year that has helped the Joomla! project immensely.

Hero? of what...Make me smile based on these ridiculous responses? Anyhow

Fine and done...no more comments

Leo

[H13]

Leo, we both know that Joomla! world is not exactly ideal at the moment, but why waste time with 3.9 discussion, which is stable. There are no expectations, just to be stable and safe. I understand your point of view. There was a miniature misunderstanding, but it's really nothing that bothers us now.

BTW: bembelimen is a hero to me because he organized a worldwide event to find bugs and improve the future Joomla! version.

[leolam]

Merry Christmas for sure to all of the Joomla users. You all Rock!

Leo

[Webdongle]

...
Common users are simply confused, they just don't know how they can help. ... Possible new volunteers have no idea why, to whom and how to help.

I am a 'common user'. Myself and many others were helped to understand how we could help testing. We were encouraged and the system was clearly explained to us. What needed testing and what it was being tested for was clearly explained. Then gradually less and less testing instructions were given. It came to the stage that many long term testers were made less welcome. The symbiotic relationship between users and the devs is all but vanished. And that is due almost entirely because of the 'holier than thou' attitude of some of the devs.

This is not venomous talk. This is a rendering of events from someone who has experienced it.

[H13]

Webdongle
Yes, this is sad, as I wrote, unfortunately I do not know the real structure and real function of the OSM, personally I am one of the great critics of the leadership structure (critic of the structure, not people) - in closed discussions because it does not belong to public forums. In such cases, there should simply be authority in the leadership to resolve these disputes.

[Webdongle]

The public forum is the place to air views and opinions. Doing it 'behind closed doors' just fuels speculation.

[H13]

The public forum is the place to air views and opinions. Doing it 'behind closed doors' just fuels speculation.

I criticize behind closed doors, because my criticism can also be based on ignorance or lack of information. And therefore it is not good to denigrate something publicly, which does not work as I think (I like Joomla! product very much so I don't want to dirty its name).

I used to play soccer, so this is holy to me: "What's said in the dressing room, stays in the dressing room" :-)

[Quy Ton]

Times have changed, and today to test something, it's no longer enough to install Xampp and Joomla!, but also composer, npm and other "terrible" tools.

You can test J4 using the nightly builds without have to install these tools.

https://developer.joomla.org/nightly-builds.html