Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

[jahsymon]

Thanks domineaux,
that is my worry. if I develop the site in 1.0.13 sooner or later I might have to migrate the site. Am not sure the extension i choose will upgrade in time or at all. Well I have spend several months looking at Drupal on my local machine and the work involved is tedious but can be done. What do others think.
I will definitely post the question on drupal forum although I can say there is no community like joomla,s in helping others out. I have 10 joomla site and I have never scratched my head over a problem. Just post and stare at the screen for a moment and Voila a solution is found.

[newart]

Drupal is a kind of "Lego" approach to sitebuilding that definitely has a steep learning curve.  Drupal modules are complete, but are designed to do many things at a lower level. Drupal modules are combined by function to build what we call extensions in Joomla.  You have to thoroughly understand Drupal modules, i.e., what they do, how they relate and how they are applied.  The process is time consuming for anyone and I repeat, "definitely has a steep learning curve" to apply the modules to build your sites.   

In Drupal you would have to research the modules available and find a best fit, which could mean using 4 modules. Then again, you might build what you really want by applying 6 modules.  All the modules are like "lego blocks" they are designed to fit together, but you have to understand the functionality you need and how each module relates to that functionality. The modules will fit, because they are competently coded and designed to inter-relate.  It is up to the sitebuilder to know how to apply the "Drupal" building blocks to have the final application desired.

I've never read a perfect description of How is Drupal! If you read carefully what above written you can have a clear idea of why Joomla is better!

[srosa]

I have not used Drupal, so I cannot speak to its ability to meet your requirements.  However, I have been using Joomla for a little bit; and, when I am asked to meet a client's requirements, I try to scope the effort by determining how much of the functionality outside the core is available through extensions.  Below is my attempt to identify how many of your requirements might be able to be met using Joomla.  Please keep in mind the extensions that I mention are just ones that I know about; there may be others.  I haven't necessarily evaluated them or even used them; some of them may be newer than others, and although, I try to keep my list of extensions current, some may even be obsolete. I have used some of them, but in no way, is this an endorsement for any particular extension.  So, be sure to do your own evaluations.  Perhaps, someone more familiar with Drupal can do the same.

The portal will seek to document;
Best practices
Innovative technologies
Lessons learnt

Sounds like Joomla core content management

Policy Papers

Not sure exactly how you need to present, but Joomla core content management or one of the document management tools like Docman or Remository might fit the bill

Tools for CSOs- Eg for monitoring & Evaluation etc

Not clear on what this is, but the evaluation piece sounds like it might be form-related.  If so, there are several options for forms: ChronoForms, dbQuery, Fabrik, FacileForms, perForms.

Events Calendar

JEvents, JCalPro, EasyCalendar, Thyme, UHEvents, and more

Free emails accounts for stakeholders. (using google apps)

don't have an answer for this one

Relevant documents collected from stakeholders. (should be able to download directly)

Docman, Remository, VFM File Repository, JDownloads and probably others

should be able to post Videos uploaded on you tube for example

Seyret or one of the document download tools above

It will also consist of news updated daily, human compiled and updated directory for all CSOs in the country

Joomla core

Forum

Fireboard, Kookabura, and bridges to SMF, Vanilla, phpBB

Photo Organizer

RSGallery2, EasyGallery, Expose Flash Gallery, SmoothGallery, Phoca, bridges to Coppermine, Smugmug, Gallery2

Social Networking community for users

Community Builder

Blogging service for users

with Community Builder, Mamblog or mojoBlog

Newsletter

yanc, Letterman, Acajoom and modules to bridge to Constant Contact and Get Response

Each CSO should have their area where they can post info about themselves
Should be able to form discussion groups around different themes

think Community Builder and GroupJive might help here

Create and share documents, spreadsheets and presentations.

sharing documents, spreadsheets and presentations may be able to be done through forums or the document download extensions

Arrange meetings, set schedules, and publish event information.

See some of the event calendars above, but if there is need for reservations, you can look at DTRegister, AttendEvents

Instant message with co-workers and make PC-to-PC voice calls for free.

no idea on the PC-to-PC calls, but for instant messaging, you could look at some of the PMS extensions: Missus, UddeIM, PrimeZilla Private Messaging

Preview your calendar and docs, add gadgets and search the web from one place

don't know of any extensions yet that allow each user to have their own personal calendar, although there has been talk about it on the JCalPro boards.  and, i am not sure what 'add gadgets' means.

customizable user roles and permissions

i am not as familiar with the existence of extensions for this functionality, but I know there are some like JACLPlus, cACL, Joomla User Group Access (JUGA), JoomSuite Permission

tools members can use to self-organize

a little vague, but Community Builder and GroupJive might fit the bill


Again, I have no experience with Drupal and I do not have experience with all the aforementioned extensions.  And, with just an outline of the requirements, it is impossible to know to what extent the extensions would meet them.  However, based on the outline, it appears that Joomla has a lot to offer.  For my own education, I would love to see how Drupal might meet the requirements. 

[jahsymon]

thanks, I will evaluate all the extensions to see how they work. Will keep you posted on my decision and show you the site I come up with regardless of the system I use.

[demo38]

srosa, thanks for that run down on the extensions / uses, very helpful.

[darb]

Towards ACL improvements, SEF URL improvements, finding ways to better handle user generated duplicate content, tagging, integrating Microformats and RDF as we lumber towards the (in hushed whisper) "Semantic Web", Error Reporting, SEO improvements, Internationalization, integration with the social networking environments that engulf us. No rest for the weary! There is so much more to do if we let our grumbling motivate ourselves into action.

Congratulations to our amazing Joomla! community on Joomla! v 1.5! Thanks to each of you who have helped make it possible.

This is new and very interesting about the semantic web! RDF for Joomla J 1.5 ?

Do you have any info about that Amy?

I also see this at Drupal "Drupal and the opportunity of RDF" http://blogs.talis.com/n2/archives/37

[jahsymon]

Comparison btn drupal & Joomla which can help us understand a bit can be found here http://drupal.org/node/80195. Not a lot but it made me be able to understand what to use for which project.

Be to drupal world for a month and what I can say is.
If it just a website or portal you want but you are not willing to be a geek stick to Joomla.
If you want a fully functional community or social networking site Go Drupal by all means
If you are a techie. go Drupal
If looks is important to you Joomla is the one for you.
If you are operating on shared hosting with little resources keep of Drupal
If you dont want major headaches in updating you site every time there is a new version Stick to joomla. Drupal DOESNOT as a policy provide for backward compatibility.
If you want to add all end and bit with you ability and knowledge being your only limitation. GO Drupal.
If you dream of one day of making a community or social networking portal to make you a millionaire Drupal.
If you are designing websites for clients. Joomla PLEASE. Cursed is the man well or woman who find /self. with 10 different drupal websites for different clients to upgrade for agony all the year round is his.
If you have your own multiple websites to run. Use Drupal. From one code you can run countless websites. You just need to make changes to one file (imagine that!)

[newart]

@ darb - Amy info at http://forum.joomla.org/memberlist.php? ... le&u=75461

[AmyStephen]

Towards ACL improvements, SEF URL improvements, finding ways to better handle user generated duplicate content, tagging, integrating Microformats and RDF as we lumber towards the (in hushed whisper) "Semantic Web", Error Reporting, SEO improvements, Internationalization, integration with the social networking environments that engulf us. No rest for the weary! There is so much more to do if we let our grumbling motivate ourselves into action.

Congratulations to our amazing Joomla! community on Joomla! v 1.5! Thanks to each of you who have helped make it possible.

This is new and very interesting about the semantic web! RDF for Joomla J 1.5 ?

Do you have any info about that Amy?

I also see this at Drupal "Drupal and the opportunity of RDF" http://blogs.talis.com/n2/archives/37

Darb -

Neither Joomla! v 1.5 nor Drupal 6.0 serve semantic output. I am aware of research both Drupal and Joomla! are doing in the area of the Semantic Web as it's a source of great interest to me, as a data person. I've talked to a number of Drupal contributors who are looking into this, as well as Joomla! contributors. The Semantic Web will only hold value if it can be processed as input and output by all CMS environments.

The RDF demo shown at DrupalCon Boston was awesome - I have the Google Video on my blog. What is most remarkable about it is that it's a super easy mashup one can easily include in any xHTML Web application. All one has to do is use Exhibit 2.0 from MIT. Nothing to download - the Javascript and mapping is remotely available. All one must do is add a data file with location points and a bit in the HTML to position the maps and wah-lah - you are reading semantic data right into your website.

Lot of different ideas people have on the best way to export Semantic Web content.

On the purist side of the house are those who would think you must first evaluate how a Web site is really used in order to determine how output should be mapped to semantic structures. Close neighbors to these purist thinkers believe it would be helpful to start with basic configurations, either at the DDL level or perhaps even by using CSS classes to map to basic FOAF, or Dublin Core, or SOIC, etc. (See: The Common Vocabularies, Ontologies, Micromodels reference).

There's a camp focused on using content where it's at today - either by mapping relational databases to available vocabularies through tools like Triplify or by starting on the finished product the side of things and breathing RDF out of the HTML through tools like xmlgrddl. Both php-based, both GPL or GPL-compatiable solutions, both easily usable as Joomla! plugins or Drupal modules for anyone with a bit of ambition.

Joomla! v 1.5's Template Override System is something that makes these decisions much easier since, even today, nothing is preventing someone from putting out RDF without hacking core. If you understand what you want to produce, you can do it today. But, if one is uninterested in doing the research and building solutions but wants a solution created, wrapped up, so that it's automatically accomplished then, no one is there right now.

Plone has been a leader in Dublin Core for a long time but even that is a very limited vocabulary and Plone will have to continue to expand their output. Their experience and discipline in this area certainly positions them as leader in this area.

Another area to keep your eyes on is Data Portability. Again, it's another buzz word hitting the blogs today but it's important and it can be enabled now, given a host of technologies that combine into real solutions.

Essentially, we are talking about the next RSS feed.

Hope that helps! If any of this is of interest to any of you, dig in and see what you come up with. Try to contribute somewhere. More and more, you'll see collaboration across project boundaries because open source projects aim to make things better for end users. We are not competing against one another, we're partners in liberating software.

Kind regards,
Amy

[darb]

Thanks Amy!

Very nice with this info and I will dig into it when I have time and I will learn a lot! Will check your video too!

Thks again!

I had a nice discussion here about taggin too coming into this with semantics and drupal etc lol
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=500&t=265904

[jamescarvin]

I'm trying to follow this discussion. I don't even know if its old or new anymore since I found it through Google. I have limited time but need to put together a quality site. I need some advanced features but have a limited budget. Actually, I need a number of sites and I'm going into development, but I'm no expert at anything. I'm good with html, but css still vexes me. I'm trying to learn php.

I hear that Joomla/Mambo are supposed to be for those who don't know html, yet I find terms that I don't know the meaning of, even though I do know html - such as AJAX - being dantered about as if everyone here was a developer. I've floated through forum page after forum page trying to get a grasp of joomla from a beginniner's perspective, yet while wanting all the while to just take my current sites and add some power features to them. Yes, I do need group controls and community building ability. I need an eCommerce feature, so log in starts with payment and email verification. I need polls, quizzes, uploads, streaming, forums, single user log-ins, profiles, search features, maps, and more.

That's where my search started. But after two weeks, I'm fearful that with Joomla I've come to the wrong place. It sounds like I won't be able to customize my sites. And frankly, tonight I started out just wanting to make a joomla site look like one of my existing designs. I never got a simple answer in any of the places I looked.

It's time for me to search Drupal, I guess.

[darb]

I'm trying to follow this discussion. I don't even know if its old or new anymore since I found it through Google. I have limited time but need to put together a quality site. I need some advanced features but have a limited budget. Actually, I need a number of sites and I'm going into development, but I'm no expert at anything. I'm good with html, but css still vexes me. I'm trying to learn php.

I hear that Joomla/Mambo are supposed to be for those who don't know html, yet I find terms that I don't know the meaning of, even though I do know html - such as AJAX - being dantered about as if everyone here was a developer. I've floated through forum page after forum page trying to get a grasp of joomla from a beginniner's perspective, yet while wanting all the while to just take my current sites and add some power features to them. Yes, I do need group controls and community building ability. I need an eCommerce feature, so log in starts with payment and email verification. I need polls, quizzes, uploads, streaming, forums, single user log-ins, profiles, search features, maps, and more.

That's where my search started. But after two weeks, I'm fearful that with Joomla I've come to the wrong place. It sounds like I won't be able to customize my sites. And frankly, tonight I started out just wanting to make a joomla site look like one of my existing designs. I never got a simple answer in any of the places I looked.

It's time for me to search Drupal, I guess.

Well if you are doing this your self I believe you will have more problem setting up a site with Drupal. Joomla have everything easily what you need its just that you have to find it by your self too. Here are a few good examples that you have to search for here in the extension directory (advance is better).

Examples

Groups - Jive group component
Controls of user groups- JUGA or JACL
Community building and many many plugins to that component - Community Builder
Subscription and payments component with micro integration to those - AEC subscription Globalnerd.org component
E-commerce cart payments - VirtueMart
quizzes and polls - ExtendedPolls dont know the exact name
Ajax search - Pixsearch
phpBB forum 3.0 - Jfusion, RokBridge, CBconnector and China bridge. Coming a searchbot from Pixsearch to soon I hope.
Maps - Google maps depending on what you want to do here is one nice for Hot Property http://client.wohnraum24.eu/index.php/G ... html#false
Uploads - Docman
WYSWYG editor - JCE
SEF urls - sh404
tags, search clouds etc etc

All these a free GPL extensions except the one for Google Map Kasi guy and JCE. And many of them are already J 1.5 ready.

Check a lot of plugins too where you can install a few of them that make you put in html and other code directly into Joomla too.

Good luck!

[EtnisDesign]

Towards ACL improvements, SEF URL improvements, finding ways to better handle user generated duplicate content, tagging, integrating Microformats and RDF as we lumber towards the (in hushed whisper) "Semantic Web", Error Reporting, SEO improvements, Internationalization, integration with the social networking environments that engulf us. No rest for the weary! There is so much more to do if we let our grumbling motivate ourselves into action.

Congratulations to our amazing Joomla! community on Joomla! v 1.5! Thanks to each of you who have helped make it possible.

This is new and very interesting about the semantic web! RDF for Joomla J 1.5 ?

Do you have any info about that Amy?

I also see this at Drupal "Drupal and the opportunity of RDF" http://blogs.talis.com/n2/archives/37

Darb -

Neither Joomla! v 1.5 nor Drupal 6.0 serve semantic output. I am aware of research both Drupal and Joomla! are doing in the area of the Semantic Web as it's a source of great interest to me, as a data person. I've talked to a number of Drupal contributors who are looking into this, as well as Joomla! contributors. The Semantic Web will only hold value if it can be processed as input and output by all CMS environments.

The RDF demo shown at DrupalCon Boston was awesome - I have the Google Video on my blog. What is most remarkable about it is that it's a super easy mashup one can easily include in any xHTML Web application. All one has to do is use Exhibit 2.0 from MIT. Nothing to download - the Javascript and mapping is remotely available. All one must do is add a data file with location points and a bit in the HTML to position the maps and wah-lah - you are reading semantic data right into your website.

Lot of different ideas people have on the best way to export Semantic Web content.

On the purist side of the house are those who would think you must first evaluate how a Web site is really used in order to determine how output should be mapped to semantic structures. Close neighbors to these purist thinkers believe it would be helpful to start with basic configurations, either at the DDL level or perhaps even by using CSS classes to map to basic FOAF, or Dublin Core, or SOIC, etc. (See: The Common Vocabularies, Ontologies, Micromodels reference).

There's a camp focused on using content where it's at today - either by mapping relational databases to available vocabularies through tools like Triplify or by starting on the finished product the side of things and breathing RDF out of the HTML through tools like xmlgrddl. Both php-based, both GPL or GPL-compatiable solutions, both easily usable as Joomla! plugins or Drupal modules for anyone with a bit of ambition.

Joomla! v 1.5's Template Override System is something that makes these decisions much easier since, even today, nothing is preventing someone from putting out RDF without hacking core. If you understand what you want to produce, you can do it today. But, if one is uninterested in doing the research and building solutions but wants a solution created, wrapped up, so that it's automatically accomplished then, no one is there right now.

Plone has been a leader in Dublin Core for a long time but even that is a very limited vocabulary and Plone will have to continue to expand their output. Their experience and discipline in this area certainly positions them as leader in this area.

Another area to keep your eyes on is Data Portability. Again, it's another buzz word hitting the blogs today but it's important and it can be enabled now, given a host of technologies that combine into real solutions.

Essentially, we are talking about the next RSS feed.

Hope that helps! If any of this is of interest to any of you, dig in and see what you come up with. Try to contribute somewhere. More and more, you'll see collaboration across project boundaries because open source projects aim to make things better for end users. We are not competing against one another, we're partners in liberating software.

Kind regards,
Amy

thanks for the brief answer amy!

[masterchief]

It's time for me to search Drupal, I guess.

One of the downside to the good CMS's is that it does take a *long* time to search for just the right combination of things - it's actually a mark that the systems are good. Not suggesting you don't start looking at Drupal but just be aware that is also a good system which will will take a long time to research what's available. It doesn't matter whether you are a newbie or an uber-geek, it still takes time and for me personally this is one of the most frustrating parts of web development - so don't feel alone - everyone goes through it.

Just ask your question in one of the general forums here and some people should be able to point you to places to start looking. The JED (http://extensions.joomla.org/) is an fantastic place to start.

[dannahlea2001]

I need helping deciding between Joomla and Drupal for a new website. I have built one site with Joomla (http://www.greengoldrush.org) and have never used Drupal. Joomla was fairly easy to figure out (but I couldn't extensions that didn't work immediately upon install).

The new website needs the ability for a user (anyone) to create an account, complete a form, make a payment, and then have the contents of the form displayed on the site until a specified expiration date. I have never done anything like this and have no idea how to do it. I'll have to learn, but I need some advice so I start in the right direction. Is it better to do this with Joomla or Drupal?

Thanks...

[darb]

O F F TOPIC:

I dont know what you mean really but you can check up the subscription component AEC from Globalnerd.org that can do much what you talking about with supporting micro integrations. Use the latest dev version or what a couple of days for the new release candidate. Its also free with a good guy developing this component and you also get great support if you also sign up for a membership for a very small fee.

[PavlovaPete]

Hi Amy,

The RDF demo shown at DrupalCon Boston was awesome - I have the Google Video on my blog

I can't seem to find the video on your blog (I assume it is opensourcecommunity.org)
Does anyone know the URL of this video?

Thanks

Cheers

[AmyStephen]

Looks like it was pulled off of Google for some reason. Here are three really good links about the content and making of the video.

• http://groups.drupal.org/node%252F9363
  http://bhuga.net/2008/03/stage-fright-under-covers
  http://openspring.net/blog/2008/03/06/f ... led-drupal

Hope that helps,
Amy

[PavlovaPete]

Thanks Amy - that was quick

Having a look at triplify (GSoC) now - I didn't realise how much work was being done with J! already.

This should be interesting - I've been waiting since the Dublin Core days

Thanks and Cheers

[TACTICS]

In some ways Drupal is better. Just look at mlgpro.com, they use Drupal. They have the nicest site I ever seen! Joomla is good to for community's.

[darb]

In some ways Drupal is better. Just look at mlgpro.com, they use Drupal. They have the nicest site I ever seen! Joomla is good to for community's.

....You have not seen the ready made components already doing this for Joomla I understand. Better you tell what so impressive with this Drupal site??


...

[Mod edit]dhuelsmann

[HarryB]

In some ways Drupal is better. Just look at mlgpro.com, they use Drupal. They have the nicest site I ever seen! Joomla is good to for community's.

...You have not seen the ready made components already doing this for Joomla I understand. Better you tell what so impressive with this Drupal site??
...

It is not spam...it is an opinion.

It is true that for some things Drupal is "better," just as it is true that for some things Joomla! is "better."

[Mod edit]dhuelsmann

[darb]

well just thought that if you come into a forum and promote a site "mlgpro.com, they use Drupal." It should be regarded as promotion for a commcercial site bcs its not general talk about Drupal v Joomla.

I learned about this a couple weeks ago when I did the same about a very good small NAS product xxx for the Joomla community that is very good bcs you can use it for setting up Joomla dev site at home/office, doing back ups etc...

So I dont understand the difference really? whats the difference to tell about a product you bought and working well for doing Joomla development or talking about a site?

human factor?

[CMSNerd]

I'm with drupal for coding but Joomla just looks so much better. I've used both before. If you could combine the good looks of Joomla with Drupals behind the scenes stuff, you'd be on to a winner.

[Jinx]

I'm with drupal for coding but Joomla just looks so much better. I've used both before. If you could combine the good looks of Joomla with Drupals behind the scenes stuff, you'd be on to a winner.

It's your lucky day then, Joomla! 1.5 does exactly that. A great UI combined with a real OO web application Framework.

[newart]

...and if Johan say that, well, you can sure it's true! So please try & use Joomla!

[molok]

I use Joomla! for sites where the client wants to update and manage their sites themselves, lots of documentation, tutorials, great extensions and a huge community are available for the client.

Thanks a lot guys for making la creme de la creme of the cms.

P.S: Sorry for my english!

[AmyStephen]

I use Joomla! for sites where the client wants to update and manage their sites themselves, lots of documentation, tutorials, great extensions and a huge community are available for the client.

Thanks a lot guys for making la creme de la creme of the cms.

P.S: Sorry for my english!

I thought your English was awesome! Nice post - what a great encouragement to everyone who contributes to Joomla!

Thanks for sharing that,
Amy

[jimetome]

Which of these software packages do you feel does a better all around job Joomla or Drupal, I have both and I am interested in your viewpoint. I am researching for a report I will be publishing.

[Jenny]

I am going to merge this post with the thread that already has multiple posts on the subject. Please take the time to read our forum rules regarding spam and self promotion.