Please bear with us!!

Reaction to the statement posted on www.opensourcematters.org
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stingrey
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Please bear with us!!

Post by stingrey » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:24 am

We understand the apprehension that this announcement this has caused in the community and as soon as possible we will keep the community abreast of developments.
We have posted a few FAQ's to try allay some questions:
http://www.opensourcematters.org/index. ... &Itemid=29

We realize these are only a small portion of the many questions people no doubt have, but we are following legal advice in regards to this matter.


We realize there is an information vacum and we would like nothing more than to fill it as it obviously goes against the whole idea of transparency and opennes which we obviously support - but our hands are slightly tied.  We have tried to provide as much infromation as we can within our orders.

I do ask that the community bear with us. 
We would also ask that people remain calm and not become overly emotional, we are a community and not a mob.

==================================

One thing I would like people to consider is this:
All members of the Core Team listed on the statement (and the numerous before us, whose torch we bear)  have all contributed thousands of man hours towards this project.  All in our own spare time, often through the nite into the early morning hours after a 'normal' day job, - some like Andrew, Emir & Brian have done so for more than 3 years.  The majority of the team also juggle parenthood and famiily life - how my fellow colleagues are able to do this still astounds me.

We do all of this because we LOVE this project and we LOVE this community.  We have done this because we all share that very human urge to help our neighbour.  Through this project we have touched so many lives and this is all the gratification we seek, to know that we are helping others.

Our decision has caused angst, heart ache and soul searching on a level that is difficult to describe.

If what I have said is true, do you not think we would have considered every option and examined all possibilities, before taking the action we have.  We do what we have done unwillingly, but also aware that it was our only choice.


Things are difficult at the moment, but we will move heaven and earth to get things back into order and running 'normally' as soon as possible.


Open Source Matters, because it is about helping others!!
Last edited by stingrey on Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by ex-mamber » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:28 am

Just the right post to reply to to say: good-bye, too late, sorry..
http://forum.mamboserver.com/showpost.p ... tcount=292

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by dmb » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:50 am

The 'devs' have my support and I wish them all the best in sorting this out. The software they have produced is the best CMS I have ever used and its continuing development as community effort is the way forward.

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by Joomlawebber » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:57 am

I think that the dev team should take their time to get everything in place, beacuse i can imagine that its a big step they have taken, and "new" things take time.

I for one, cant wait to see the next release, and cant wait to hear the new name, but i don´t mind having to wait, because the dev team deserves to take the time they need, and the sure hell (sorry), deserves our backup.

Core Dev Team:
Tanks for everything

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by tonezone » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:42 am

I agree,

The dev team no doubt have a huge undertaking ahead of them over the coming weeks/months and they'll be working with enough pressure as it is.

What an awesome bunch of ppl they are to have given us so much as it is.
Let's give them some time to work through the issues at hand.

ledzep

Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by ledzep » Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:52 pm

Just picked up the news and while not unexpected am sad that it forced the dev team to take the action they have.

Having said that I am fully behind a team that has produced such an excellent product.

I am not a programmer but would be willing to assist on the documentation front or an area like that.

Good luck guys!

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by broeker » Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:57 pm

ex-mamber wrote: joe (aka eyezberg, in another world)
EDIT: Sorry Joe, I misunderstood your post and didn't follow the link. It was still good to see your post, and I'm sorry you're so upset. All I can say is that Rey's post was from the heart, and in spirit it represents the feelings of the entire team, which is an awfully good group of people. Take care.
Last edited by broeker on Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by keliix06 » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:07 pm

ledzep wrote: Just picked up the news and while not unexpected am sad that it forced the dev team to take the action they have.

Having said that I am fully behind a team that has produced such an excellent product.

I am not a programmer but would be willing to assist on the documentation front or an area like that.

Good luck guys!
Contact Michelle or kenmcd and let them know. They are always looking for people willing to help.
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by Predator » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:09 pm

broeker wrote:
ex-mamber wrote: joe (aka eyezberg, in another world)
Joe, I was wondering when you were going to show up. Good to see you here, it is fun seeing all of the old faces and names appear here one-by one.

Tim
I`m sorry Tim but i guess you didn`t read his Post, it is really sad but Joe said good bye :(
The "Humor, Fun and Games" forum has  more than 2500 Posts, so why not build a "Humor, Fun and Games Working" Group?
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by broeker » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:34 pm

You are correct: I didn't read closely. Drats :-(
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by TomT » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:36 pm

Hi Rey, thanks for your sincere post. You're right: we shouldn't let emotions rule us. We're here because of a very fine open source product. For now we can work with the existing version (I'm working on a multilingual biz site today) until the new version is released.
I saw we are allmost welcoming the 1000' member, that's very good.

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by jgobiz » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:16 pm

stingrey wrote: I do ask that the community bear with us.  We would also ask that people remain calm and not become overly emotional, we are a community and not a mob.
Rey, i agree with you. I guess everyone of us has to act carefully. E.g. "before inventing conspiracies", please read this from Robert Castley: http://forum.mamboserver.com/showpost.p ... tcount=349
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by gsbe » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:32 am

jgobiz wrote: Rey, i agree with you. I guess everyone of us has to act carefully. E.g. "before inventing conspiracies", please read this from Robert Castley: http://forum.mamboserver.com/showpost.p ... tcount=349
Interestingly, Robert's user is now listed as a Guest. I wonder what is going on now? I get the idea that he may not have known exactly what he was in for when he spoke with Miro about the foundation.
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by alwarren » Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:24 am

If you need anything at all let me know.
Last edited by alwarren on Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by TheSaint » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:58 pm

We're here to cover your back and provide assistance to those who need it. The people that made this project truly great are still here and that's what matters. Once the logistical items get taken care of we'll see this puppy back in full swing. I for one, can't wait.
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by masterchief » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:50 pm

Hi Community!

As you can appreciate our number one priority is getting our logistics and infrastructure back on track so that it is business-as-normal so our capacity to tell the 'real' story (hehe) is limited and also needs to be shadowed by legal advice.  As always, truth is sometimes even more interesting than speculation but I don't think I'll be contacting Dan Brown on this one in a hurry ;)

So, for now we are working hard on a new name, developer infrastructure (web sites, forge, CVS, etc), better communication channels and so on. Thanks for your patience and support.  It's been one heck of a ride and one I'd rather not do again for a while, hehe, but we are in good shape and the future looks really, really positive.
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by ex-mamber » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:34 pm

Andrew, I'm happy for the team.
All the best of luck, may the Force be with you all.
Someone give me a shoot if I'm online then when the new name is known ;)
I love you all (yes, I do!), you know who you are, lol ;)

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by jgobiz » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:30 pm

masterchief wrote: As always, truth is sometimes even more interesting than speculation but I don't think I'll be contacting Dan Brown on this one in a hurry ;)
Hi Andrew,
are you sure about contacting Dan? Yesterday evening, he invited me to his next LOUVRE. He might call you as well, i guess.
Best regards,
Joern

@Dan: O.k. i knew LOUVRE is a secret at present. At least i would not give it away right now, but i really appreciate your Loving Opensourcematters United Verve Release Events.
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by hornos » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:01 am

Hi there,
Please bear with us!!
Do we have an alternative?
Cutting up with Miro and the "commercial dark side" was definitely the right thing to do; I always thought from the beginning that a private company being involved an OS project the way Miro is was quite insane.

However, as mentionned by Eyezberg and other active members: you (dev team) did not provide information to the community regarding your intentions after Miro's annoucements, you just broke up !! Did you discuss the matter with PL? No need to mention the legal stuff ...
And now, look at this mess!

I've read hundreds of posts on this forum and on mamboserver and everything makes me sick. I've spend hundreds of hours and money in setting up mambo support websites and I feel like betrayed by Miro and you (dev team). This is a just a feeling, don't try to analyse  ::)

Finally, I just want to point out one of the most critical issue regarding Mambo IMO. Mambo has become a huge project with a huge community in the past few years and look at the its representativeness!!
I'm pretty convinced that this is the key point. I don't want to flame the dev team (I'm really grateful for the great work you're doing ;)) but $ambo project should not be managed by dev only! Maybe Miro has some responsabilities there, sorry but I don't know the whole story. Dev team should only be one node in $ambo project management; some (necessary) steps were given to build up a documentation and a translation team, but no communication channels were established with the dev team (correct me if I'm wrong). Than we (worldwide community) have to follow dev team orientations and decisions, not only in a technical point of view... This is not a question of trust, this is just a question of transparency and representativeness.

There would be a great benefit in re-structuring the core team and opening it to experienced mambo end users (translators, documentation writers, representative from locale support websites, coordinators...), dev team being one (major) part of the whole structure (foundation, non-profit or whatever shape it takes). Maybe this is one of your current undertaken actions...

It took me more than one hour writing down this damned post  >:(
I don't want to blame anyone out there but understand me: I love my $ambo, mirambo, quilombo (!), I love this community, I love camenbert and Bordeaux  ;D ;D
Always thought aussies were a bit nut... LOL

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by stingrey » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:07 pm

hornos wrote:But $ambo project should not be managed by dev only! Maybe Miro has some responsabilities there, sorry but I don't know the whole story. Dev team should only be one node in $ambo project management; some (necessary) steps were given to build up a documentation and a translation team, but no communication channels were established with the dev team (correct me if I'm wrong). Than we (worldwide community) have to follow dev team orientations and decisions, not only in a technical point of view... This is not a question of trust, this is just a question of transparency and representativeness.
The Mambo Project and now the OSM Project is managed by the Core Team:
http://www.opensourcematters.org/index. ... &Itemid=27

This Core team is comprised of members from the:

Development Team
- Andrew Eddie
Development Team Leader
- Emir Sakic
- Andy Miller
- Mitch Pirtle
- Tim Broeker
- Alex Kempkens
- Arno Zijlstra
- Nick Annies

Maintenance Team
- Rey Gigataras
Maintenance Team Leader
- Levis Bisson
- Andy Stewart

Documentation Team
- Michelle Bisson
- Shayne Bartlett
Documentation Team Leaders

Translation Team
- Jean-Marie Simonet
- Trijnie Wanders
Translation Team Leaders

Publicity & PR Team
- Brian Teeman
- Peter Russell
PR Team Leaders

Forum Team
- Brad Baker
Forum Team Leader

Google Summer Of Code Team
- Johan Janssens
SOC Team Leader
Temporary team only during duration of SOC


The Core Team and the Project is led by Project Director:
- Andrew Eddie


I agree we did not make a good job of making that clear on mamboserver.com, but mamboserver.com was also under the direct control of Miro, while news.mamboserver.com, help.mamboserver.com & forum.mamboserver.com where under the Core Teams control.

I will endeavour to make it clearer on the OSM site that the Core Team is not only composed of members from the Development Team.


Also people were invited onto the Core Team directly from the community. 
Recent Core Team members
- Johan Janssens was and still is Leader of 3rd Party Addon DocMan Development Team
- Arno Zijlstra was and still is member of 3rd Party Addon SimpleBoard Development Team
- Shayne Bartlett was part of the Documentation Team and was promoted to share Team Leadership with Michelle
- Trijnie Wanders was part of Dutch Translation Team before being promoted to share Team Leadership with Jean-Marie
Last edited by stingrey on Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by hornos » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:02 pm

Thanks Rey,

I already had this information.

It just seemed to me that Core team is a community inside the community with no representative from international support and portal websites (french, german, spanish, italian, russian,... communities), meaning that the decision you've taken directly affects the international community regardless their opinion. We're talking about a dozen of major localized support and portal websites, you should have informed them prior to this decision IMO. Now we have to relay and explain all the information spread between OSM and mamboserver to our community, with very few information indeed: let me tell you it's a real annoying task !!

You will tell me that it has always been this way: right, time to change then!!

One request: everybody's currently looking for a new name for $ambo, would you (Core team) be kind enough to inform international support and portal websites admins prior to any public annoucement in order to pick up and register a new domain name on time?
Last edited by hornos on Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by hornos » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:46 am


$ambo

Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by $ambo » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:07 am

stingrey wrote: We understand the apprehension that this announcement this has caused in the community and as soon as possible we will keep the community abreast of developments.
We have posted a few FAQ's to try allay some questions:
http://www.opensourcematters.org/index. ... &Itemid=29

We realize these are only a small portion of the many questions people no doubt have, but we are following legal advice in regards to this matter.


We realize there is an information vacum and we would like nothing more than to fill it as it obviously goes against the whole idea of transparency and opennes which we obviously support - but our hands are slightly tied.  We have tried to provide as much infromation as we can within our orders.

I do ask that the community bear with us. 
We would also ask that people remain calm and not become overly emotional, we are a community and not a mob.

==================================

One thing I would like people to consider is this:
All members of the Core Team listed on the statement (and the numerous before us, whose torch we bear)  have all contributed thousands of man hours towards this project.  All in our own spare time, often through the nite into the early morning hours after a 'normal' day job, - some like Andrew, Emir & Brian have done so for more than 3 years.  The majority of the team also juggle parenthood and famiily life - how my fellow colleagues are able to do this still astounds me.

We do all of this because we LOVE this project and we LOVE this community.  We have done this because we all share that very human urge to help our neighbour.  Through this project we have touched so many lives and this is all the gratification we seek, to know that we are helping others.

Our decision has caused angst, heart ache and soul searching on a level that is difficult to describe.

If what I have said is true, do you not think we would have considered every option and examined all possibilities, before taking the action we have.  We do what we have done unwillingly, but also aware that it was our only choice.


Things are difficult at the moment, but we will move heaven and earth to get things back into order and running 'normally' as soon as possible.


Open Source Matters, because it is about helping others!!
Sorry but....  this Miro take over has revealed some interesting points... one of which is how ALREADY MAMBO is a sell out..... seems as if Miro are the scape goats here for an already corrupted goal??



Mambo has been going down hill for years without Miro's help.... its just a great time to blame and move on.  Good luck to the core team.,,,..... unitl the same repeats itself... and no i dont wprk for Miro... I can just see both sides of the fence .... and this is just ONE SIDE of the story right?
Last edited by brad on Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by TomT » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:13 am

Well seems like you can't see any site  :-\. Maybe buy a pair of glasses?

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by alwarren » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:22 am

$ambo wrote:Mambo has been going down hill for years without Miro's help....
You must have a really distorted definition of "downhill".

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by joomlahut » Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:59 pm

AL, it's good to see you around.

I am not sure what Mr. $ambo is talking about here, he must be from a different planet  :D
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by teng » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:51 pm

a miro pr man i guess. lol  ;D

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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by xperis » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:56 pm

This idea that the Core Dev team is a closed group with no rules for entry.. worries me.

I love the work they have created, but I am worried the personal politics here is not a clean as were are all suppose to beleive.

The foundation will own the copyright.  One has to wonder if a foundation run by members will be more free or more controlling of the trademark.

I hope we don't see the atorneys kill this project with their take no prisoners attitudes.
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by ChuckTrukk » Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:13 am

Anyone can move the direction of Mambo. If some of us in the community want to influence the direction, we can do many things.

1) Speak to the Core- they do all of this because of us
2) Do it ourself
3) Hire our own dev-team and do what we want with the code (it is GPL meaning we can twist and manipulate all we want).

Examples
1) Phil Taylor (3PD)
2) MamboJoe and Community Builder (GPL)
    2b) Then MamboMe to the Community Builder code (GPL of a GPL)
3) Mambo Brothers (3PD)

That is what is great about this program. It's ours- as a whole.
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Re: Please bear with us!!

Post by Troubadour » Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:36 am

I just want to voice my complete support for the Dev Team.

I too have spent hundreds of hours in client development using Mambo. Learning to deploy and design Mambo websites has been a significant time investment for me as well.

I have nothing but support for the stance and the actions the dev team have taken. I understand completely how such radical changes can take you by surprise and necessitate quick maneuvers that can preclude lengthy discourse on your actions.

I've seen what this dev team can do, I love this product to death and promote it wherever I go - and I'll continue to do so as it moves forward under OSM, whatever it's called.

You've done great work guys, it's appreciated and I can't wait to hear what's next.
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