Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license change

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by NivF007 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:09 pm

lobos wrote:This thread is supposed to be about "Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license change"... personal questions to Andrew don't seem a part of that...
I don't agree - the Joomla! Project will ultimately be affected by this decision, and knowing where contributors stand, personally, IMHO, is important.

masterchief wrote:You are asking the wrong question. It's not mutually exclusive. Let me put it this way. I do not want the Joomla project to be my exclusive "publisher" if the Framework is GPL. In that case I would self-publish under MIT which allows wider adoption AND Joomla to use the code at the same time. However, if the Framework is LGPL, I am inclined to make Joomla my exclusive "publisher".
[emphasis mine]

I don't like this answer, or it's implications, but I respect it and value it withing the context of evaluating what decisions to make. Andrew, please accept my sincere and formal apology for criticizing you so harshly before for taking this position - who are we to say under what conditions anybody can be forced to contribute?

As part of the public email discussion referenced as context for this thread
instance wrote:If we collectively decide to give our work away to people so they can build commercial stuff with it, I won't be happy, but I will accept the collective decision, recognizing that if I want to pick up my toys and go play in another sandbox, that's my choice (personally not a really smart one unless a large group agrees to come along, but hey, it's an option).
(You can find that here https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searc ... cOU2YQ1OIJ)

I guess that may be the wish for many of us.

Keep in ind, inter alia, various contributors have expressed that they either will continue to contribute, or won't, depending on the decision of license, and has always been considered 'fair game' with respect to the debate.

None of these responses should be interpreted to mean any of those contributors don't have the best interests of Joomla! at heart - and I find myself regretting having taken that position at earlier times.

Bottom line - I think that contributors should be able to openly express their views and positions, personally, as to under what conditions they will continue to make contributions - without criticism and without fear of repercussions.

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by jodofin » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:23 pm

Webdongle wrote: The licence issue is more about what people will give back. And if the reason for a LGPed framework is to attract devs that won't touch GPL then do we really want that mindset ? There is a big enough rift between Devs and non devs as it is without attracting devs that have an anti GPL mind set. That is reason enough to stay well clear of Joomla framework (or cms) being LGPLed.
This really sums up why we shouldn't relicense.
+1

Add: it breaks FSF guidance:
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f ... 3#p3143093

Add: it goes against the principles of OSM
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f ... 1#p3141622

Add: developers don't rate the software
https://twitter.com/mbabker/status/440593289109336064

Add: there are better alternative frameworks with more developers
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f ... 4#p3147312

Then the answer is a definite no.

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by NivF007 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:24 pm

masterchief wrote:
NivF007 wrote:(In bold is what I was seeking to clarify) - thank you for providing.
You've had the data all the time. It *was* referenced in the original blog post http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leade ... ework.html
Bugger!!! Can't believe I missed it. I would have included it earlier (it's there now) - please accept my apologies for not including it earlier.

I'll update the tally from this thread later tonight.

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by masterchief » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:26 pm

NivF007 wrote:Andrew, please accept my sincere and formal apology for criticizing you so harshly before for taking this position
Accepted :)
NivF007 wrote:- who are we to say under what conditions anybody can be forced to contribute?
My take is Joomla is better trying to make the Framework team work for them. If the Framework team is under the Joomla banner, then the CMS has a lot of negotiating power to work towards mutually beneficially outcomes. In contrast, however, if the CMS moves to Symfony (for example), they are just another user and Symfony can rightly say "no, we won't change because it doesn't suit us, you change!".

I think there are huge advantages in Joomla owning it's Framework team, not least of which it keeps many decades of collective experience in house (I don't see the tie being as strong if under OSM unless OSM changes somehow, and that's a debate for another day). I also think that if the Framework team wants to move toward greater adoption, that will not hurt the CMS because some of that adoption is going to rub off on the CMS as well. All up, Joomla as a project has nothing to lose and everything to gain by allowing an LGPL framework. We'll be attracting developers that love coding and love sharing code - is that not what we do?
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by mbabker » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:30 pm

Webdongle wrote:I am asking you if
masterchief wrote:With a GPL framework, I would be included to support the existing code in so much as I have projects that need it, but I would probably not add any new packages and just publish them myself (github.com/eddieajau) under the LGPL or MIT. That gives my code, at least, a chance to have wider adoption (and the CMS or extension developers are free to use them as well).
Means you are saying that having your code more widely adopted is more important to you than adding your new code to Joomla under a GPL Joomla framework ?
TL;DR - I want to make code available to the wider PHP community, even if that means I don't explicitly write it with the intention of it being contributed to and branded under the Joomla name.

Personally, I currently maintain my own PHP library code. One of those packages includes a wrapper for a third party API, which to the best of my knowledge is the only complete PHP implementation of this API. As a developer and contributor to Joomla, I have several options, which include:

- "Dumb down" the code to make it fit into the current CMS architecture (remove PHP namespacing primarily) and send a pull request to the CMS with that code; it is only available within the CMS at this point
- Send the code to the Joomla Framework, which requires only changing the namespace from my brand to Joomla, it is now available as part of the overall framework offering but under whatever license OSM/Joomla decides and under their rules
- Continue to make the library available under my own brand and allow the PHP community to use it as it sees fit under the current license

To me, the latter option is the best one. It comes at the expense of not having a full community like Joomla behind it initially, but it also is less restricting than the first option of contributing it to the CMS specifically. If the CMS wanted to use it, it could consume my library like any other third party resource, which is a win for both my library (increased adoption and use) and the CMS (providing new solutions to help developers).

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by masterchief » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:31 pm

jodofin wrote:Add: there are better alternative frameworks with more developers
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f ... 4#p3147312
I dare you to drop "Throw out the Joomla Platform and use Symfony in Joomla 4" on the CMS mailing list and see what reaction you get from extension developers :) :pop
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by NivF007 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:46 pm

masterchief wrote:Accepted :)
Glad to hear it! I am sincere in my apology.
masterchief wrote:We'll be attracting developers that love coding and love sharing code - is that not what we do?
In my best Arnold Schwarzenegger "It's not a tumor" voice (http://samplage.com/movie-quotes/its-not-a-tumor/) - I'd like to shout out, "It's not the license!!!"

While it probably was a dismal attempt at humour (I do think we take ourselves way way way too seriously), I think coders who want to code and want to share that code, get high off doing so (coding) - I don't believe that will ever change.
NivF007 wrote: How people from Colorado understand Open Source Licensing

GPL: Dudes! I've got this great crop. I can give you some seeds and you can grow some great s--t with them but only if you share the seeds of all your crops with all your brothers and sisters so they can get high too.

LGPL: Yo sista! I've got this great crop. I can give you some seeds and you can grow some great s--t with them but only if you share the seeds from those crops with all your brothers and sisters so they can get the same buzz.

MIT/BSD: Let's just roll up that free s--t and smoke it.
If you look at the above as 'progression of ideologies' - I've found myself following this exact progression from the start of this debate to the end (for the record I haven't smoked a joint in years) - and I hope others will follow this progression too - in their due time - and come to the mutual understanding that the desire to contribute, to participate, to give back, to improve, to innovate, to help - are not dictated (and cannot, in the end, be imposed by brute force) by a GPL, LGPL or any other license which impose any obligations.

If there is any doubt to this, I've written about the 'Github effect' - most of the development today and 'give back' today is done a) Github; and b) under MIT - and it's done without the obligation of a license that 'imposes' any 'obligation' to give back. It seems to me to disprove that GPL (while it once may have) serves our best-interests in every case with software that we develop.

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by masterchief » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:56 pm

I'm not even going to touch that analogy (gas mask on), but with reference to obligation, the GPL requires you to distribute the code the way you receive it. It's agnostic about whether you contribute back to the source.

However, the AGPL requires you to give back modifications if you are using them (for example, if Joomla was AGPL, and Facebook used a heavily modified version of Joomla code, we could legally ask Facebook for all their modifications to our source just because they are using it on their site).
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by NivF007 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:59 pm

masterchief wrote:I'm not even going to touch that analogy (gas mask on), but with reference to obligation, the GPL requires you to distribute the code the way you receive it. It's agnostic about whether you contribute back to the source.

However, the AGPL requires you to give back modifications if you are using them (for example, if Joomla was AGPL, and Facebook used a heavily modified version of Joomla code, we could legally ask Facebook for all their modifications to our source just because they are using it on their site).
Yeah...let's not take that analogy too seriously - lest we end up starting a new thread of 1000+ posts discussing the merits and flaws of the open-source v. pot growing analogy - I hope it's good for a chuckle and to describe the 'spirit' of why we contribute.

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by airton » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:42 am

Way back in the first few pages I stated that my decision in favour or against the license shift would mostly be based on the response to a couple of questions that Parth had asked and that expressed my main concerns.
At that time I was already tending to the pro-LGPL side but, after reading through this flood stream of posts (it's been a huge work for me in the last week or so), I must say that those questions have been answered to the fullest sense, and even other questions that could have sprung from the discussion have as well been taken care of.
So I must now say that I am 100% in favour of the shift to LGPL for the framework and, in order not to make it a blank statement, I'll provide the points on which I base my decision.

1- LGPL will possibly foster a broader adoption of the framework by the larger PHP developer's community
2- That broader adoption may have a beneficial impact for the FW and the CMS itself by attracting more contributing developers to our code base
3- The framework IS NOT USED IN ITS FULLEST SENSE BY THE CMS as of today, being a totally different entity than the CMS. So the purists notion about Joomla's GPL background will not be affected. It's a completely different product that happens to be carrying the Joomla! brand with it
4- When and if the FW become the true base of the CMS in the future, the application layer being GPLed will "infect" the underlying code enforcing GPL rules upon it
5- Extensions built upon the CMS will always be infected by GPL and will have to be GPLed as well to be allowed in JED

I think this pretty much summarizes my pov. As I stated before, I'm not a FW contributor, although my contributions to the CMS (testing, bug squashing, etc) in the past might have found their way into the FW somehow. And, yes, I have signed the CLA.

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by NivF007 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:09 am

PLEASE NOTE: FINAL TALLY WILL BE PROVIDED FOR ALL VOTES UP TO AND INCLUDING ANY PM'D TO ME OR LISTED ON THE "Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license change" AS OF 11:59PM E.S.T. MARCH 7th, 2014

Supporting GPL: 65
Supporting LGPL: 27


You can get the spreadsheets at http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=704&t=837342

I've also added in the survey 'Joomla! Platform LGPL Survery' by Andrew Eddie so that those results are also represented there and provided a link to the actual survey as well.

---

Please take note that the request from OSM for public feedback from community members, per Paul Orwig - OSM President, was March 6, 2014 (although it does not specify time zone - hence my selection of the cut-off date/time for the 'unofficial tally').

I'm sure OSM will assess whether or not the tally is useful for their purposes and use it at their discretion. To be clear, this tally has not been sanctioned by OSM.

I also want to remind folks who have expressed concerns of the following

---
porwig wrote:OSM absolutely cares what the community thinks about this issue. We wouldn't have published a blog post and requested community feedback if we didn't.
porwig wrote:As stated in the original blog, this discussion will remain open through March 6. After that OSM will follow up with SFLC on any new legal questions, and then OSM will have a discussion, make a decision, and announce that decision. I feel sure that the discussion will include the re-branding idea along with suggestions for more polls. Those points may or may not end up impacting what the scope of OSM's upcoming decision will amount to.
---

Whether or not OSM sees utility in the 'unofficial tally,' and what decisions they make going forward, as Paul has set out, is of course at OSM's discretion.

As a personal note, I would like to thank those who have PM'd me to have their vote tallied and I would like to encourage anybody else who wishes to participate in the tally to do so.

If you wish to have your name removed as well, please feel free to PM - I will certainly honour your request.

To date, I have removed, at their request

- one person who wished to be neutral; and
- one person who was listed as pro LGPL but requested not to participate.

---

A big 'thumbs up' and much appreciation to OSM for allowing us to have this debate and to the moderators for their fine work (I think we just might have the best moderators around)!!

Best regards,

Niv

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by abernyte » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:53 am

Airton has summerised for me a few very pertinent points.. I started the process as firmly GPL. I fear the future in what looks like a step into the dark with far too many "maybe" and "possibly", but I have to consider that may be just a personality trait...dark, cynical and cautious ( I am a Celt for goodness sake). Perhaps the future is to allow the Framework the freedom to develop and for the CMS to ride upon it's success.
Either way I want to see Joomla thrive and if a successful de-coupled Framework does that and it is best achieved by LGPL then so be it.
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I think Andrew has shown great composure under fire and I doff my hat to him. (Not that he in way needs my endorsement).
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by Webdongle » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:08 am

Whatever the decision and how much time I volunteer as a result of the decision(and/or the way I feel some of the participants have acted) ... I bear no hard feelings to anyone.

Also because of the details in many of the post it has enhanced my knowledge of Joomla, php coding and human nature in general. Many thanks to everyone for that.
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by porwig » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:01 pm

Hi all,

As stated in the original blog, after allowing two weeks here for public comments and feedback from our community, OSM will now move forward to address any potential new legal questions, and then have a discussion and reach a decision. A public announcement will be made once there is agreement about the decision. There is no deadline for the decision.

I want to thank everyone who participated in this thread. Some may disagree, but I feel strongly that for this issue, it was important to have this discussion, and to have it in the open. A lot of great thoughts, ideas, questions and concerns have been shared and responded to.

Now I ask for three things:
  • A little patience, while OSM takes time to thoughtfully weigh and consider the different aspects of this issue that have been shared in this discussion.
  • A little trust, that OSM will do our best to make a decision that we feel is in the best interest for our project and our community.
  • A little unity, that once a decision is announced, differences can be respected and we will move forward - all together.
Thanks,
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by NivF007 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:58 pm

It was fun to join the Joomlabe.at Hangout today as nice end to this debate on licensing - certainly took the edge off and was nice to be part the awesome Joomla! spirit and vibe.

After a bit of a pause (i.e. a couple of weeks), I would like to get much more involved with ways in which we can

a) increase awareness of the Framework; and

b) reach out to potential contributors

Are there any current discussions (i.e. topics, threads), proposals, or initiatives that would be helpful to get upt to speed and contribute?

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by AmyStephen » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:26 pm

Link to the Joomla Beat discussion. Great to hear all those perspectives.

http://www.[youtube].com/watch?v=cu2FJfFe ... youtu.be&a

*Very* impressed with Niv's discussion points. Articulate, clear spoken, supportive of community. Respect, Niv.

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by NivF007 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:27 pm

:) Thank Amy - your comment made my day!

I think this has been a learning experience for us all, and in the end it's how we choose to move forward that matters.

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by mbabker » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:29 pm

NivF007 wrote:After a bit of a pause (i.e. a couple of weeks), I would like to get much more involved with ways in which we can

a) increase awareness of the Framework; and

b) reach out to potential contributors

Are there any current discussions (i.e. topics, threads), proposals, or initiatives that would be helpful to get upt to speed and contribute?
Watch the Framework mailing list. The Framework team are organizing thoughts and letting some dust settle before we throw the next campaign out there (things like improving the Framework's site and building sample apps are two areas that always are being looked at).

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by mygaccount » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:01 am

Hello All,

I don't know if this has been said before, but I had a thought. Changing the license to LGPL could be good for the economy and help small businesses. Big businesses can just make all the code themselves, but small businesses would be seriously helped by an LGPL license. It would help them compete in the business market against bigger entities, fostering competition, which leads to better value for everyone.
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by Papillon » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:25 pm

brian wrote:Joomla was founded on the principle of Open Source Matters and a change to using the LGPL licence for the framework is completely against that. For those of you that don't know the LGPL allows the code to be included in proprietary, closed source software.

How does allowing people to produce closed source software with the Joomla Framework support the principle of Open Source Matters?

Just another rant?
Before you think this is Brian just going off on a rant of his own I'm not alone with this view. The Free Software Foundation, the people behind both the GPL and LGPL licences, agree.
But we should not listen to these temptations, because we can achieve much more if we stand together. We free software developers should support one another. By releasing libraries that are limited to free software only, we can help each other's free software packages outdo the proprietary alternatives. The whole free software movement will have more popularity, because free software as a whole will stack up better against the competition.
Source https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-not-lgpl.html available in multiple languages.

It doesn't effect Joomla?
The proposal states that this change is only for the Framework and it has no effect on the CMS but once again that is not 100% true.

Joomla is licenced GPLv2 or later but, and this is very important, the GPLv2 licence is NOT compatible with the LGPL v3 licence. Source: The perils of LGPLv3. Now to be fair the proposal statement doe not mention which version of the LGPL would be chosen but if we assume it is the latest version then that would mean a change in the licence for Joomla would be required as well.

So a statement that says "This potential license change would only apply to the Joomla Framework, but not to the Joomla Content Management System (CMS)." is, potentially, not true. IF the Framework uses LGPLv3 then Joomla would need to change its own licence to GPLv3 in order to use its own framework.

But our competitors use LGPLv3?
While some use a more permissive licence than the GPL others do not. Drupal for example uses GPLv3.

Who benefits?
The only people that really benefit are those people who want to take the Framework and use it in a proprietary piece of software. Are those same people likely to contribute to the Framework itself and help to develop it?

Open Source Matters
This is our founding principle. If someone won't use the Joomla framework because they want to use it to produce closed source, proprietary software then tough luck go and find another php framework to use.

In Summary
  • This is against the principle of Open Source Matters
    This would, probably, mean changing the licence of Joomla to GPLv3
    The argument about competition is irrelevant.
    This only benefits those who wish to take open source software and use it in proprietary closed source software.
    And once againt this is against the principle of Open Source Matters
Full approval!

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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by masterchief » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:25 pm

Papillon wrote:Full approval!
Hi Papillon. You will need to read the other 37 pages. We've already established a number of times that Brian's statements were completely false and highly misleading. If they was any truth to them, we wouldn't be asking for a license change.


Moderator note wrote:
No one is the custodian of the truth.

please respect others opinion

thx
Last edited by alikon on Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by Chacapamac » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:46 pm

I’m not fully understand what is a stake here with the change of licence. One thing I know I love Joomla. I can say that all the participants in this project give their heart out for it and in 2014, Joomla grown to become without a doubt the best CMS out there.

I’m sadden and worry that such important people behind the projects are so opposed for this decision.

I just want to add in my judgment that is not really significant because I can’t grasp all the ramification is that I don’t see anything good if any part of Joomla become close coded.

If any third party components want to protect their code they should be able to do so and have their own JED where people that need those component can go ahead and get them. They can plug to Joomla if they want (and maybe pay a right to do so) (another source of cash for the Joomla Team is always welcome).

Personally, I will ALWAYS prefer my add ons to be completely open and more flexible to modification and branching but if a component even if closed coding give me the flexibility to do what I want and procure a benefit for my customers (web sites owners) I will maybe go for it (but always prefer Open Sources).

Joomla itself should stay COMPLETELY Open Sources.

What I just say, is maybe beside the point as I say before - I don’t fully understand
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by masterchief » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:39 pm

Chacapamac wrote:I just want to add in my judgment that is not really significant because I can’t grasp all the ramification is that I don’t see anything good if any part of Joomla become close coded.
It is not possible for any software Joomla produces under the GPL family of licenses, and that includes the LGPL, to become closed source. Apart from it not being possible, it doesn't make any logical sense to do that. But I'm happy to fork the project again if it happens :)
Chacapamac wrote:Joomla itself should stay COMPLETELY Open Sources.
It will, and that's the truth!

Note to mod: please contact me next time you want to annotate my posts with your opinion, and also sign who did it rather than making an anonymous comment (there's no audit trail that way). I spent a lot of time proving what some people were saying was not true.
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by Webdongle » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:30 am

masterchief wrote: ... I spent a lot of time proving what some people were saying was not true.
You did not prove what Brian said was wrong and to claim that you did is misleading.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by masterchief » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:39 am

Webdongle wrote:You did not prove what Brian said was wrong and to claim that you did is misleading.
If what you, Brian and others were saying was true, we would not have requested a license change. That is a true statement.
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by Webdongle » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:46 am

masterchief wrote:...If what you, Brian and others were saying was true, we would not have requested a license change. That is a true statement.
No it is not because ... if what Brian, myself and others are saying was not true then you would not need to request a licence change. The fact that the community's opinion was requested shows that the change of licence is not as straight forward as you would have everybody believe.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by masterchief » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:50 am

Webdongle wrote:No it is not because ... if what Brian, myself and others are saying was not true then you would not need to request a licence change.
I'm not sure I know how to respond to that logic :) I'm happy to go over the arguments yet another time if that's what you want (but time is better spent coding in my opinion).
Webdongle wrote:The fact that the community's opinion was requested shows that the change of licence is not as straight forward as you would have everybody believe.
Well, kind of but not really and it would have happened even if it was a slam dunk decision. This is something called "community consultation" and it's a common tool used by government and communities alike (I'm sure your local sporting club does similar things, or whatever you might be involved in in the real world). The license change is actually straight forward but because we knew people would have questions, and because we knew there is a philosophical (almost religious one could say) dimension to the GPL ecosystem, it was appropriate to be open and transparent about it and allow people to air their views. It's nothing new and if you follow the mailing list you'll see we ask for people's opinion all the time.

As it happens, we are gearing up to talk about what should happen this coming quarter with respect to the Framework. You may have noticed that JRegistry has been replaced in the CMS with the Framework's counterpart, and that is a rather important utility class that the CMS relies on. We'll be discussing how to replace even more of the CMS over the course of this year no doubt. We'll also be preparing a pull request for review for one package that will cover the license change and also bumping the version of the Framework to 2.0. Once everyone is happy with it, we can rinse and repeat with the help of our contributors (might take about a month). Oh, and while we are at it, we'll ask if anyone has any changes they need to make that would otherwise have caused a backward compatibility problem (since we are bumping the major increment).

As you can see, consultation is just what we do so don't be so surprised - monitor the mailing list if you are interested in helping.

Those are our plans - what are yours?
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by Webdongle » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:21 am

masterchief wrote: The license change is actually straight forward but because we knew people would have questions, and because we knew there is a philosophical (almost religious one could say) dimension to the GPL ecosystem, it was appropriate to be open and transparent about it and allow people to air their views.
No it is not straight forward and no you were not being transparent about it. You and others prepared for the licence change some time ago then put it as a 'fate accomplis' to the OSM board. It was the OSM that brought your plans to light.

masterchief wrote:... We'll also be preparing a pull request for review for one package that will cover the license change and also bumping the version of the Framework to 2.0 ...Those are our plans - what are yours?
That depends on the decision OSM makes about the licence. But it appears that either you are convinced they will agree with you or that you have your own way regardless of their decision.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by airton » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:48 am

Webdongle wrote:That depends on the decision OSM makes about the licence.
Well, it has already been approved on March 28th.
http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leade ... -lgpl.html
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Re: Feedback on potential Joomla! Framework LGPL license cha

Post by Webdongle » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:24 am

airton wrote:...
Well, it has already been approved on March 28th.
http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leade ... -lgpl.html
Then from a personal viewpoint I shall be joining the ever increasing group of people ... who use Joomla without joining in with the community. It was fun while it lasted but all good things come to an end. Time for me to spend my recreational time on other things.

Good luck to everyone whether or not they continue to contribute to Joomla.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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