Discuss Joomla! 3.9.10

[pe7er]

Here you can discuss about the release of Joomla 3.9.10

See Announcement: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=973006

[JAVesey]

3.9.9 --> 3.9.10 site updates appear to have gone smoothly.

Many thanks for the update being made available quickly after the bug was found

[sozzled]

So far so good. I've updated a couple of test websites and things appear to have gone smoothly. Thanks.

[Newman123]

Ridiculous, I only updated to 3.9.9 yesterday, and changed all my favicons, now you expect me to do it again.. what could have changed in one day exactly??

[infograf768]

Ridiculous, I only updated to 3.9.9 yesterday, and changed all my favicons, now you expect me to do it again.. what could have changed in one day exactly??

A bug was found concerning template styles and we could not avoid doing a new release.
See https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pull/25484
Not ridiculous imho. Rather responsible.

[jk1]

Unfortunately the update checker still asks to update to the faulty J3.9.9 on sites which had not been updated yet. I'm using the downloaded J3.9.x to J3.9.10 zip file for those now, but many users probably will fall into that trap and click 'update to J3.9.9'.

[infograf768]

As j3.9.9 is NOT existing on the update server, it should normally use 3.9.x to 3.9.10

[jk1]

Ah, ok. Just updated a J3.9.7 site. Although the update checker asked 'Update to J3.9.8?', clicking it actually installed J3.9.10. Seems that the update checker is coded to suggest current version +1, while clicking the button always installs the latest version.

[Alon]

I have two Joomla sites. One told me that 3.9.10 was available and I updated with no problem. The other site tells me that I'm up to date even though it's running 3.9.8.

Usually, both sites tell me when an update is available. This is the first time one hasn't been able to detect the update. Both sites are using the same webhosting service.

Edited later to add: I manually checked for updates in my control panel and the update appeared. Never had to do this before. It was always automatic in the past. I then updated to 3.9.10 ok.

[Newman123]

Ridiculous, I only updated to 3.9.9 yesterday, and changed all my favicons, now you expect me to do it again.. what could have changed in one day exactly??

A bug was found concerning template styles and we could not avoid doing a new release.
See https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pull/25484
Not ridiculous imho. Rather responsible.

Disappointng to see that the first update wasn't tested properly, to eliminate the bug before we all put it on our sites, I would much rather see you take an approach where you test things, before releasing them.. That would have been responsible imho..

[pe7er]

Disappointng to see that the first update wasn't tested properly, to eliminate the bug before we all put it on our sites, I would much rather see you take an approach where you test things, before releasing them.. That would have been responsible imho..

I understand your feeling. However, Joomla CMS is a community effort and you are part of the community.

The Joomla! 3.9.9 Release Candidate has been released 8 days ago. The purpose of a Release Candidate is that it's being tested by members of the Joomla community. The more testers we have, the more we can minimize issues like with Joomla 3.9.9.

Could you please help out with testing future Release Candidates?
They are announced at Joomla's Twitter channel, e.g. https://twitter.com/joomla/status/1147120128150163457
Thanks!

[jgress-]

50 sites done and all went well. Thanks everyone!!

[Webdongle]

Ah, ok. Just updated a J3.9.7 site. Although the update checker asked 'Update to J3.9.8?', clicking it actually installed J3.9.10. Seems that the update checker is coded to suggest current version +1, while clicking the button always installs the latest version.

Nope ... had 3 J3.9.8 sites showed the J3.9.10 update but 1 site showed J3.9.9

[darb]

"Disappointng to see that the first update wasn't tested properly, to eliminate the bug before we all put it on our sites, I would much rather see you take an approach where you test things, before releasing them.. That would have been responsible imho.."

There is no responsible you to point at bcs it’s like pointing at yourself not take responsibility for you self bcs Joomla had a nasty bug one time of 1000 of non-problem releases- Joomla core dev is not a company--> “you” and all people in this voluntarily community is working on their free time for the best for all in this community so all contribute as good as they can.

Put energy to help to be a positive tester will help Joomla instead if this is a big problem. What you think?

[sozzled]

All done. All finished. All good. All happy Thanks.

[Webdongle]

"Disappointng to see that the first update wasn't tested properly, to eliminate the bug before we all put it on our sites, I would much rather see you take an approach where you test things, before releasing them.. That would have been responsible imho.."...

Testers (for many reasons) are far and few between. Nothing preventing you from testing.

[ribo]

I updated all my joomla websites to J 3.9.10 without any issue.
Thank you joomla team.

[deleted user]

"Disappointng to see that the first update wasn't tested properly, to eliminate the bug before we all put it on our sites, I would much rather see you take an approach where you test things, before releasing them.. That would have been responsible imho.."

There is no responsible you to point at bcs it’s like pointing at yourself not take responsibility for you self bcs Joomla had a nasty bug one time of 1000 of non-problem releases- Joomla core dev is not a company--> “you” and all people in this voluntarily community is working on their free time for the best for all in this community so all contribute as good as they can.

It's 2019. When Joomla finally wakes up and realizes that it cannot survive 100% on the altruistic tendencies of others, then we can start finger pointing and calling for heads on silver platters. When that day comes, call me, that might be an environment I might be interested in working in. Until then though, thanks to the 100% dependency on the altruistic tendencies of drive by contributors, everything that happens and doesn't happen in Joomla is because someone volunteered to do something (and in way too many cases with no compensation for their time and skill, maybe 2019 is the year society as a whole accepts that demanding free labor in OSS development and their surrounding communities is not acceptable or sustainable long term).

[jgress-]

Yes! @mbabker

[Richard67]

So or so I recommend to always have a copy of your productive site (or if you have many, at least of some sites) and test a new release at least briefly before applying it on the productive site.

It can be a locally hosted copy, or a subdirectory or subdomain on your hosting environment, this works also if you have your site on a shared hosting environment.

It takes me 2 minutes to export database from productive site into copy, another 1 minute to wait until my shell script for copying the productive site to the test site, and with good diff tools like e.g. BeyondCompare or similar I can always check easily what has changed if I wanna know that, also between local and remote.

Joomla is a software which does more than just echo "Hello world", and as such it can always have bugs, regardless on how intensive we, the community of users and fans and developers, fight them. There is even a theory in informatics which proofs that, I just have forgotten author and name. And so it may happen again there is a release which breaks something.

That's why I recommend always to have such testing site as I described above, and to use it.

And by the way, if you have problems after an update e.g. with database errors: Check the link in the footer of mbabker's post 2 posts above this one. It links to a tool authored by him, which can help in many cases.

[jgress-]

That's why I recommend always to have such testing site as I described above, and to use it.

+1, totally agree

[Webdongle]

@mbabker
methinks that (for many reasons) the symbiotic relationship between devs and users is broken. And that the time when Professional volunteers and Amateur volunteers give their time for free is coming to an abrupt end.

Devs are feeling that their free time is not valued and us amateurs are feeling that the devs are not respecting the time that we give freely. Also their appears too be a lack of respect from many devs towards the amateurs who volunteer freely.

Perhaps it's a 'sign of the times' where all things web connected are getting more complex?

[sozzled]

@Webdongle (who highlighted an issue), @mbabker (who responded to @Webdongle's post), and @jgress-: there is one person here who is probably thinking, "Mission accomplished. I've got the community tearing itself apart." That person is not me, @Webdongle, @mbabker, @jgress- or @darb.

The "argument" started as the result of an unfortunate post by @darb in response to a post by @Newman123. I try to avoid responding to @Newman123's taunts and I think others should also resist the temptation, too.

In my reading of this topic, from the time that @Webdongle replied until now, it looks like people have reacted to something written by @darb. Doesn't really matter how things started, but we've had a better and more respectful conversation about QA for J! releases here: viewtopic.php?f=575&t=973010. So, perhaps, before people hyperventilate any further about arguing the coin-toss, it might be worthwhile taking a breather.

I do not believe that there's been a relationship breakdown between the general community, the J! development team and the J! production group. Trouble-makers, like @Newman123, delight in setting the cat-among-the-pigeons and blaming everyone else. Rather than give these people further oxygen, leave them alone and they'll go away.

@pe7er actually dealt with the attempted forum flaming fairly well (if you scroll back far enough to read his reply). Even I learnt something from it and I would have been happier to see the matter end there.

I do, however, understand the many competitions in people's lives and on people's time. As I've written elsewhere, "Time is only important when you don't have enough of it." Yeah, I'm as much of an armchair expert as the next person and I often express "confronting" opinions but, as I've also written before on this forum, more times than I care to remember, most people don't give a rat's what I've written before on this forum.

[Webdongle]

[potential attack removed]

We are expressing our honest opinions. I understand mbabker's frustration and sympathise. There have been times when I have felt he was 'on the attack' but his post honestly describes his feelings. As for myself I have ample proof of what I posted. Nothing jgress has posted is other than her opinion. Darb has strong opinions but could do with helping out with testing.

[jgress-]

I want to see devs paid. Testers too. That's the main reason I agree with Babker. I'd like to see some serious money thrown at marketing as well. I'll go back to my stages of grief on my own now. This is seriously off topic. It was a great release for me. No issues and I'm grateful for the devs and testers. Thank you. Very much.

[leolam]

+1 @mbabker and @jgress and I agree with what Kevin stated

methinks that (for many reasons) the symbiotic relationship between devs and users is broken. And that the time when Professional volunteers and Amateur volunteers give their time for free is coming to an abrupt end

Leo

[deleted user]

Devs are feeling that their free time is not valued and us amateurs are feeling that the devs are not respecting the time that we give freely. Also their appears too be a lack of respect from many devs towards the amateurs who volunteer freely.

I don't know why you constantly feel disrespected, or why you feel people are constantly trying to disrespect others, but the only thing I have to say on that topic is if you don't have a lick of respect for the people you are building software for then you have no reason to be in the business of building software. Yes, it is true people will disagree on what is important, or how systems are managed, but you can still disagree while being respectful of the opinions of others.

As for compensation of one's time, I feel everyone has a right to seek fair exchange of goods for their time and/or skill. Volunteerism is a great thing, I will never discourage it, but volunteerism is not sustainable at the scale of an organization charged with the release of mass-consumed open source software like Joomla, WordPress, or Drupal. With that said though, a lot of blog posts and commentary have gone around over the last year that have made me rethink my stance on altruism being a dominating force in why people contribute to free and open source software projects and communities, https://steemit.com/opensource/@crell/o ... e-is-awful is one of those pieces I encourage everyone to read. And that's ultimately where my comments about "you can't rely on volunteers forever" comes from.

Perhaps it's a 'sign of the times' where all things web connected are getting more complex?

They are, for good reasons and bad. True, more software projects are using more tooling when you're working with their source code repositories (Joomla 4 requires NPM and Composer unless you stick to prepared packages (nightly builds, alphas, etc.), other OSS CMS' require similar tooling) without imposing those same requirements on end users using pre-built packages (you can download a ZIP and get going). True, some organizations and individuals are pushing the notion that the "conventional" HTML document structure is not good for the user experience and performance and are pushing developers to build an Internet optimized for machine consumption versus human consumption. But, the web is constantly evolving and sooner or later you're left in a state of either having to change your own workflows or eventually you get left behind.

[Webdongle]

... But, the web is constantly evolving and sooner or later you're left in a state of either having to change your own workflows or eventually you get left behind.

Yep and the gap between dev's and Amateur volunteers gets wider. The sign of the times. Q.E.D.

[jgress-]

https://steemit.com/opensource/@crell/o ... e-is-awful

I have read this before. And it was just as good a read another time through.

One of the best portions of it in my opinion is:

"If you are relying on a piece of software, and you have not signed a contract with the maintainer/publisher of it nor are you actively and continually contributing to it in an ongoing fashion, then the author/maintainer doesn't owe you jack [censored] and never will."

[Webdongle]

@jgress
"Volunteer coding is exploitation" yes and so is Volunteer testing. But together it is not exploitation it is a symbiotic relationship.

Perhaps coding (for various reasons) has become more complex and can no longer be done without financial compensation. If that is the case then for devs to get paid a Testers not then that is exploitation.

Personally I don't see a future for Joomla as free software if work on it is on a paid basis. For Joomla to remain 'free' (in all senses of the word) software then the symbiotic relationship between volunteer coders and volunteer testers to be strengthened.