About the design of the administration? Topic is solved

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:25 pm

Please, lets create a better looking backend template for Joomla 4.
Hopefully somebody is listening ?????

Is anybody out there ?


So far Joomla backend developers seem to completely ignore a post that have almost 200 thousand views.

No response, No Comments, No explanation of what they planning to do?



A little bit of Paranoia... :'(

Did Wordpess people infiltrate Joomla??????
Anyway I don’t see any other actions that can damage Joomla 4 as much. Good Work!

Really Sad, for all the people that love this fantastic CMS....
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by mbabker » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:40 am

ies wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:27 pm
Also, there are a lot of clients saying the same: "I heard that WP is the best. Will we use it?". Maybe this is the reason why many of the involved developers prefer to use WP sometimes. They are pushed by the clients.
If that's what the client wants, and that is what is going to fulfill the client's needs, then you're better off working with them to give them something they want that will make them happy than to give them another platform they don't want that doesn't necessarily make them happy (and I'm not saying that everyone is going to fit that description either, a lot of people are just going to throw the name WordPress out there because it's used as a generic term to say "website" in too many cases). If you're putting all your money into forcing people to only use Joomla, you're doing a disservice to yourself.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by claesbas » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:10 am

I really like the new admin interface. There are many many user improvements that will speed up administration for me, my agency and my clients.

Of course there are some rough edges still but that is to be expected. I remember all the whining when we moved to Bootstrap 2 in Joomla 3.0.0. It also had some rough edges but when it was at around 3.2 the interface was much more polished.

I think this new Atum backend template is "more complete" than the Isis was in Joomla 3.0.0. So that looks very promising and I can see some awesome improvements in Github already for it!

So the team that put together this - Awesome work! I am very grateful and hope to be able to help improve it further! Can't wait to start to make our components, plugins and modules look great with this! Thank you!

Ignore the negative people! The internet is so full of them in 2019 - its part of today's cyber ether noise.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Hackwar » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:24 am

"What do we want?"

"Everything!"

"When do we want it?"

"Yesterday!"

"Who should do the work?"

"SOMEBODY ELSE! SOMEBODY ELSE!"
Chacapamac wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:25 pm
No response, No Comments, No explanation of what they planning to do?
Among others, I've responded here, we pointed at the repository where you can see all tasks, all progress, etc. and we pointed at the discussion, etc. from 2 years ago where all of this was decided. Do you want me to visit you personally and read all of this as bedtime story?
Chacapamac wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:25 pm
A little bit of Paranoia... :'(

Did Wordpess people infiltrate Joomla??????
No, it's the REPTILIAN HUMANOIDS FROM THE FLAT HOLLOW EARTH!!11oneeleven

Seriously, you started this thread over 5 months ago and I haven't seen you open a PR or issue on github even once in that whole time. If you are so unsatisfied with that template, then provide code to improve it. Or provide a better (logic) screendesign. But until now you've basically only complained that you don't like it. Period. Does anybody believe that you would be satisfied with a different design? If we changed the design radically, you would still say that you don't like it. And if we changed it back to the 3.x design, you would complain that it isn't innovative enough. I don't think that anybody could create anything that you wouldn't trash immediately and thus I can live very well with simply ignoring you.

(I know about your early screens, but none of them are logical and/or represent the common usage of Joomla. We are not building YOUR CMS, but a CMS for everybody.)
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Lodder » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:46 am

I think the main problem is that the designs that were published on JMagazine (which people quite liked), differ too much from what has now been merged into core.

I'll be the first to admit I was not a fan of the proposed designs, but they brought something new to the table and also had their pros, such as simplicity. So at the end of the day, hats off to those involved for trying and putting lots of time into it.

Personally, I've got to a point now where I'm developing a custom backend template with far less clutter and with the assistance of a couple of other developers. Feel free to PM me if anyone is interested in access to the repo.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by simbus82 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:26 am

Hackwar wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:24 am

Seriously, you started this thread over 5 months ago and I haven't seen you open a PR or issue on github even once in that whole time.
Chacapamac is one that opened the question about some problems about the first template of Foltyn.

https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/issues/24380

https://github.com/Chacapamac?tab=overv ... 2018-12-31

The fact is the design is in the hands of developers (without UI and UX skills), not in the hands of designers.
Do you want to destroy last "selling" weapon of this CMS?
I work in digital marketing from 14 years and i can say that Joomla, if is made by people that think without a grain of vision (not mission!!!), will fail and will never been adopted by new users (admins) in the future.

Is this what you want for Joomla?

Image

Someone here have to close the IDEs and take some time to study what the MARKET and PEOPLE want. Open Source or not, the world works like this.
Joomla future can't be decided by three/four developers who systematically silence those who propose new and really useful things on Github.


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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Webdongle » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:38 pm

simbus82 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:26 am
...

Chacapamac is one that opened the question about some problems about the first template of Foltyn.

https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/issues/24380

https://github.com/Chacapamac?tab=overv ... 2018-12-31

The fact is the design is in the hands of developers (without UI and UX skills), not in the hands of designers.
...
Yes then we discovered that a completely new design had been developed in secret and even excluded mbabker and brian. Then when it was open (for public pr's) only it was difficult for many non devs to test. By the time it was added to the nightly build it was too late for any serious rectification.
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by mbabker » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:45 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:38 pm
Yes then we discovered that a completely new design had been developed...
Just a point of clarification here; though I agree with a lot of the sentiments in this thread I also want to make sure things remain factual. What was merged to core and included with the latest alpha release is not a "completely new design" in relation to the original proposal from the magazine. It mostly is that design, with adjustments made because certain aspects of the design proposal made little sense and were changed (i.e. the idea of the edit screen tabs being fixed at the bottom of the screen) or things were changed to better accommodate accessibility requirements and general end user workflow or just couldn't be implemented as designed without changes that went beyond the scope of implementing a template. So you're right in that it's not a 100% carbon copy of the original design proposal, but the adjustments made don't go so far as to calling it (yet another) completely new design.

I have my issues with the template and the workflow taken to reach the state things are at now (and wasted my time trying to highlight issues I ran into while doing my own testing and review, especially as it seems the design team did not take into consideration anything beyond their narrow vision of what things should look and behave like), but even as annoyed as I am with the project as a whole I still think it's important to be fair to everyone involved (good and bad, too bad some people want to ignore the bad).

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:05 am

Dear Hackwar,
I can feel the frustration in your answer and believe me, as you see here, I give some time of my life to prevent Joomla to make an error that can definitively put down this CMS that I promote to my clients, use and love for many, many years.

I did go to Github, I did try to reach and offer my help to Foltyn team and, as you see here, to my recent knowledge ?.... All that effort to help improve and/or expose that terrible interface that was proposed come back to me with somewhat rude remarks that bring nothing positive to the problem.

The interface, I propose was to open the discussion and was base on an early design of Joomla 4 administration.

I didn’t want to reinvent the wheel and propose logical small modifications taking my experience of more than 10 years building web sites with Joomla and more than 25 years in industrial and interface design.

That clean & cool interface, that in facts was supposed to be the heart of the new Joomla 4 suddenly turn to a mush that 90% of the people that respond on this post find simply atrocious.

If you and the Joomla developers that work on this are blind to that fact and also that this post generated close to 260,000 views it simply means that something is broken with Joomla, not the CMS, as it is the best CMS out there in 2019, but with the people that take decision in this project.

They simply stop listening to the great community that support this project until today.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by darb » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:42 am

I see this project for journalists and have some nice design and workflow. You can check the template design and features here https://www.superdesk.org/features
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by ies » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:47 am

darb wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:42 am
I see this project for journalists and have some nice design and workflow. You can check the template design and features here https://www.superdesk.org/features
The journalists template you propose is nice. But also nice, and I think better, is the Joomla 4 template as initially proposed in JMagazine. So, the problem is not that the proposed template for Joomla 4 backend is not good. In my opinion the problem is that the rules and characteristics of the proposed template were not followed in the latest versions of Joomla 4.

(Unfortunately I am not good in design. I can tell if a template is nice but I can't create a nice template. Otherwise, I would try to help more on the design of Joomla 4 backend with specific corrections.)

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by simbus82 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:41 pm

Here is another excellent attempt to make people forget the ugly Joomla 4 template!

https://dribbble.com/shots/7061234-Joom ... ncept-2019

Image

And in this case i see LOT a REALLY useful "widgets" in a really good&modern "style".

This is how needs to be made UI in 2019!

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:27 pm

Thank simbus82.

Good thing we have some renown developers that can help us regain our sanity, this is a good example, not perfect but already better.

Sadly, almost no serious new Joomla developer will accept to install an external developer extension to make this CMS usable. We are not back in time when Joomfish was the only way to produce a multi-language Joomla site.


I will try to make a list of Dev’s that are planning Joomla 4 backend template remplacement;

Joomshaper (Thanks simbus82) —> https://dribbble.com/shots/7061234-Joom ... ncept-2019

Joomlashine with their flexible free extension “JSN Power Admin” —> https://extensions.joomla.org/extension ... oweradmin/
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:46 pm

I mark the topic Solved by mistake, anybody Know how to revert.

I’m sure that will make some people happy anyway!
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by gws » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:50 pm

Just report the post and a Mod will sort it for you.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by ies » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:21 pm

If Joomla 4 was going to use the template suggested by @simbus82 then we were going to have a web revolution. This is a very very nice template!

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:19 am

Now, I just Install Joomla_4.0.0-alpha11-dev-Development-Full_Package
—> https://developer.joomla.org/news/790-j ... ha-11.html

This is some screenshots: — (Without comments...) :)

Installation — Panel 1
1-Installation.jpg
Installation — Panel 2Only Panel
installation-2.jpg
Finish or Customize — Panel 3Only Panel
finish-modif.jpg
CustomizationInstall Admin Language(Cut in 2 for the length)
5-A-modif-other-language.jpg
After Customization — Back to Finish or Customize — Panel 3

Login
Login.jpg
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:21 am

Dashboard
Dashboard.jpg
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by darb » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:05 am

simbus82 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:41 pm
Here is another excellent attempt to make people forget the ugly Joomla 4 template!

https://dribbble.com/shots/7061234-Joom ... ncept-2019

Image

And in this case i see LOT a REALLY useful "widgets" in a really good&modern "style".

This is how needs to be made UI in 2019!
+++++

Very nice and hope that Joomla design team can take action to see how much of this really could be implemented!
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:47 am

For Joomla 4, tell me if I’m wrong, It’s to late to redo a brand new template, I think we should only focus on Alpha 11 and just suggest cosmetic adjustment.

Download the Alpha and play with it.

I will come back with my suggestions.
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by darb » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:02 pm

Chacapamac wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:47 am

Download the Alpha and play with it.
I got the message. I launched a test site with alpha 11 here https://launch.joomla.org/ and it was like sirup. If I was new to Joomla I will never never use it for any reason now or in future. Period. We can not have a service like this that doesnt work and have extreme limited server power performance resources. Its bad for everyone!
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by gws » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:00 pm

I suspect (don't know) that the launch joomla site is on its last legs,and they wont be supporting joomla much more.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:51 am

Installation panels revisited:

Change a bit the color base on colors from older designs with more warm color.
— I find the color of alpha 11 cold and without life. Not inviting at all.
— Add the Joomla logo full color- Let’s not be shy to show the cool Joomla logo

• Joomla logo bring to Joomla site
• Question mark bring to Joomla Help Page
1-Installation.jpg
Others Panels the same...
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Magnytu2 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:36 pm

Hello everyone, I'm not a developer, I'm not a Pro, I'm only a little French who uses Joomla! for pleasure. I've been alerting you for weeks that the J4 admin template is "ugly" is very difficult to use. I installed all alpha versions is the latter is the worst (sorry for the developers I do not want to insult people). I even made a site www.joomanji.fr to see the evolutions of Joomla! 4.
But all this to say that you need to take a step back. Annalize and listen to the cries of the heart. I am a fan of Joomla! very sad.
It has been two years now that Beta is not urgent. Or go out with all the systems that work like the workflow or the media manager. Delete the buttons that are hidden (save and new for example).
I made proposals, admin template drawings. Kawshar Ahmed presents a wonderful project. A template that is sexy, beautiful, colorful. Please listen, watch, open your arms to project.
Even if it's free, a sad product does not sell. We do not buy a car because it rolls, a phone because it phones.
How do you imagine that the specialized press will react by seeing the admin template of J4? Who will write tutorial books, demonstartion videos with a sad template?
IF Joomla! 4 is not used by many, Joomla will die without budget, community, end user.
You can keep this template, but second. There are already two under Joomla! 3. You have so much work on it that you should not throw it away. But the first template must offer passion and heart ...
Six months to realize this new template, I think that the developers can meet this challenge if they are supported, if they are supported by a whole community tight in rank behind them.

This text is made in French then translated by Google, I hope you understand that there is no criticism here but a cry of heart for all the little end users of Joomla! I'm a fan of Joomla! and I want to stay that way. Thanks for reading me.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:59 pm

Magnytu2 said it all...

Installation panels revisited (2edition and last):
1-Installation.png
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Magnytu2 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:30 am

Hello everyone, it looks like Joomla! 4 will be entitled to a new template. Please, support this project. I do not know how, but it is necessary that the community gathers around new template so that it becomes the best of all.

Bonjour à tous, il semblerait que Joomla! 4 va avoir droit à un nouveau template. S'il vous plait, il faut soutenir ce projet. Je ne sais pas comment, mais il faut que la communauté se rassemble autour de se nouveau template pour qu'il devienne le meilleur de tous.

Cyrille POUSSIN
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Chacapamac » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:34 pm

Magnytu2, do you have a link to this thread, who are these guys or links to them ?
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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Magnytu2 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:52 pm

On facebook > https://www.facebook.com/groups/joomlan ... ent_follow

Marco Dings > https://volunteers.joomla.org/joomlers/244-marco-dings

I'm so happy that I wrote a little article> https://www.joomanji.fr/administration/ ... rie-du-web
It is necessary that all the community is behind project. I think it's important that Joomshaper be supported by everyone.

Je suis tellement content, que j'ai écri un petit article >
Il faut que toutes la communauté soit derrière se projet. Je crois que c'est important que Joomshaper soit soutenue par tous.

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by ies » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:14 pm

Magnytu2 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:30 am
Hello everyone, it looks like Joomla! 4 will be entitled to a new template. Please, support this project. I do not know how, but it is necessary that the community gathers around new template so that it becomes the best of all.

Bonjour à tous, il semblerait que Joomla! 4 va avoir droit à un nouveau template. S'il vous plait, il faut soutenir ce projet. Je ne sais pas comment, mais il faut que la communauté se rassemble autour de se nouveau template pour qu'il devienne le meilleur de tous.

Cyrille POUSSIN
From what I understood reading the announcement of Marco Dings, there will be two back-end templates for Joomla 4. The official and a new one proposed by the Joomlers.

I am not feeling good about this. Having to create two backend templates is too much. Why not having one but very good, if not perfect? Why not focus all the effort to one template?

I know that Joomla Magazine has announced the backend template design for long time now and it will be a little awkward to cancel this and propose a new one. But I don't find this a bad sign. We tried a template and it seems that it doesn't fit so good. This happens all the time in design. On the contrary, it is good to realize that "ops, I just found something better and I have to adapt".

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Re: About the design of the administration?

Post by Magnytu2 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:33 pm

Yes I understand your comment, but here it will be two different teams. This second team is from Joomshaper who will offer Joomla a second template. This is an offer that can not be denied and that it must even support please.


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