So neither can I (update my local testing installation I mean )
I was hoping to periodically update with the latest nightly build but I guess that can't be done?
I'll play about with 4.0.0 Beta1-dev for now
Moderator: ooffick
So neither can I (update my local testing installation I mean )
Not sure about the Live Update but it looks like Upload & Update is working now, at least better than a couple of weeks ago, when it displayed notices and warnings and the update script did not seem to remove old files. The only message from the update in today's latest Nightly build was a timeout when it tried to connect to the statistics server.JVesey wrote:Do the Update Channels work and, if so, which is the correct one to use to update?
This is good; so just download the latest nightly build and upload it?toivo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:29 amNot sure about the Live Update but it looks like Upload & Update is working now, at least better than a couple of weeks ago, when it displayed notices and warnings and the update script did not seem to remove old files. The only message from the update in today's latest Nightly build was a timeout when it tried to connect to the statistics server.
Nice onetoivo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:29 amIf you get bored, there are plenty of opportunities to contribute by testing the latest PRs at Joomla! Issue Tracker. Today managed to test successfully one (simple) PR tagged Release Blocker
That worked
Yes, PHP 7.2.5 is the new requirement specified at https://docs.joomla.org/Potential_backw ... n_Joomla_4.JAVesey wrote:I'm assuming PHP7+ only in terms of back-compatibility?
Thank youtoivo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:03 pmGood to hear!
Yes, PHP 7.2.5 is the new requirement specified at https://docs.joomla.org/Potential_backw ... n_Joomla_4.JAVesey wrote:I'm assuming PHP7+ only in terms of back-compatibility?
Likewise Admin Tools (unsurprisingly!)
If those documents are difficult to follow, testing PRs is perhaps not for you. At this stage the developers require testing of PRs done in a particular environment using the documented tools. Reporting of bugs is easier but that also requires searching the Joomla! Issue Tracker and checking if the issue has already been reported.
At this stage of the SDLC of Joomla 4 the best way to obtain information is to get involved and see how the developers and testers are working day-to-day. In addition to ad hoc contributions, modelled on the Pizza, Bugs & Fun - Worldwide event, the new Bugs & Fun @Home weekend event is available now to all interested contributors to Joomla.sozzled wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:30 pmSee viewtopic.php?f=803&t=980231; a lack of documentation (in the Wiki) is not part of the problem in addressing the fundamental concerns that we ordinary people have in obtaining information about the current state-of-play.
The developers have already their hands full. The Joomla! Issue Tracker and Github are their primary communication channels. Only selected few of the core developers have had some time for the forum. Let's accept that.sozzled wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:30 pmBugs "happen". Some features are missing. Some [Wiki-based] reference material is also absent. Those things are not as important as the lack of engagement from the developers within this forum or, worse, the appearance that this forum is unworthy of being a place to address our concerns.
Well yes, I've read the complete thread. This corner of the forum is the only source of information I could think of. Boy I was wrong.
Well I am very sorry for you if you feel like that. I know the message I threw out is not optimistic. And it was not supposed to be optimistic. As a non engaged end user (in the means of developer, tester or whatever 'extra' role one can have in the community) of Joomla I've thrown out what my experiences are with the current state of Joomla 4.
Well this sounds like an us to them discussion. Let me be straight: I belong to neither of those groups.Webdongle wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 8:43 pmRebuking constructive criticism is one of the reasons that the devs are lacking testers. The relationship between devs and the rest of the community used to be symbiotic. But now the devs attitude makes it an 'us and them' situation. I am sick and tired of the way many of the devs ignore the rest of the community.
Sorry, here I have to stand up for the developers, that are volunteering. As a volunteer one only wants to do stuff that is interesting. For a project like Joomla it is of great importance to have enough developers onboard. But not only developers: also communication people, product owners and so forth.
Thank you for the links. I've read them. Again only useable and applicable for people who wants to get their hands dirty in coding and the systems that are used. Me as a person I do not want to dig into git, into coding and so on.ceford wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 9:52 pmI think that part of the problem is that the documentation is a bit of a maze. I have learned to keep my own bookmarks, so here are two relevant to this discussion:
https://docs.joomla.org/Testing_Joomla! ... renceGuide
https://docs.joomla.org/Testing_Joomla!_patches
Please don't expect those doing the coding and bug fixing to do all of the testing and documentation as well. By all means report user experience issues but please keep the posts short!
Every action from whomever that is contributing to the Joomla project should be praised for that. From the lead developer to the last single person that wants to use the system. It is no them or us!sozzled wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:30 pmI value your efforts to take on the role in documenting guides for Joomla and wish to put on the public record that you do this work largely unaided and not often acknowledged.
We require acknowledgement from the developers that we're being heard. The ensuing silence, on that front and in this forum, is deafening.
This is the start of the problem to user engagement!toivo wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 1:25 amIf those documents are difficult to follow, testing PRs is perhaps not for you. At this stage the developers require testing of PRs done in a particular environment using the documented tools. Reporting of bugs is easier but that also requires searching the Joomla! Issue Tracker and checking if the issue has already been reported.
As a person I am reading this as : if you are not involved in development and testing, then you do not need to know about Joomla4. This makes me sad as it is in my opinion the road to nowhere. Without a constant growing and renewing user base, Joomla is going to die. So it is of greatest importance to get as much people involved!toivo wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 1:25 amAt this stage of the SDLC of Joomla 4 the best way to obtain information is to get involved and see how the developers and testers are working day-to-day. In addition to ad hoc contributions, modelled on the Pizza, Bugs & Fun - Worldwide event, the new Bugs & Fun @Home weekend event is available now to all interested contributors to Joomla.
Well, again this is where in my opinion a great issue in the organisation is mentioned. There needs to be a three spokes relation: users, documentation people and developers should work constantly together. None of these roles may have the power to retract in an ivory tower!toivo wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 1:25 amThe developers have already their hands full. The Joomla! Issue Tracker and Github are their primary communication channels. Only selected few of the core developers have had some time for the forum. Let's accept that.
In the current state of development I am quite certain that it will be very hard to even reach the point of an official first release of Joomla4. This sounds probably harsh and rude: it is really what I've seen the last couple of days after being away for about one year. Nothing major has happened in that period.
It would be good to make a more proffessional "Joomla feedback survey" and get some important feedback/data from Joomla users interactions with Joomla so we understand the needs/wants etc and can use that feedback for directions.sozzled wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 2:54 amIn order to address the original question, I created a twitter poll under the hashtag #Joomla, with the question "How much confidence do you have today that J! 4 is ready for [end user] beta testing?". We'll see what we'll see.
In order that I am not seen as influencing the outcome of the vote, I will not comment about J! 4 (or the poll that I created) anywhere for the next four days.