Admin menu accessibility

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dazonic
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Admin menu accessibility

Post by dazonic » Mon May 15, 2006 6:17 am

People who are unable to use a mouse have to tab to links on a page, which can be slow. Javascript drop-down menus usually cannot be accessed.

I use the [url=http://"https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/879/"]Mouseless browsing[/url] extension for Firefox- which adds a number beside links so i can shortcut to them with my number pad, rather than tabbing- it saves pressing tab sometimes 200-300 times! I've just returned home from hospital after breaking my neck June 2005, and I use a stick in my mouth and stickykeys to navigate and type. I'm pretty quick around XP, the net and starting to work out fedora, but i cant nav around Joomla admin because of the javasript.

Does anybody know how i might be able to use only the keyboard to cruise around in the admin? An admin template with HTML links only, or a different approach maybe?

Any ideas at all would be great 8)

cheers,

- daz
Last edited by dazonic on Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by brian » Mon May 15, 2006 6:24 am

I'm not sure if there is a solution but I will spend sometime later today to se what I can find and will post back here with anything I can find

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by brian » Mon May 15, 2006 6:35 am

Whilst I'm driving to work have you looked ar Hit-a-Hint http://users.tkk.fi/~psillanp/hah_hp/. Havent tried it but it might help.
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by dazonic » Mon May 15, 2006 7:37 am

hey thanks Brian.

I've had a look at hit-a-hint before. It would be great except you have to hold a key down, and I'm using a mouthstick, so it's basically like typing with only one finger.

I tried setting the hold button to 'Shift' or 'Ctrl' with StickyKeys but it didn't work. Caps lock didn't work either :(

I've looked and looked... I'm pretty resourceful, and open to any ideas- which is why i came here. :)


ps-  i'm unoffendable people. If you're worried about offending me with a silly suggestion or query, hit me me up anyway- i'm open to anything!

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by brian » Mon May 15, 2006 9:15 am

Are you able to use voice controls?
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by brian » Mon May 15, 2006 12:29 pm

I can see what you mean now about the drop down menus not working with the mouseless browser extensions.

The only thing I can think of right now would be to install "customquick icons" http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/
as this creates new icons in the central control panel which does work with the extension

Then you would have to have someone go through the menus and add them all to the control panel.

Sorry couldnt help more
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by dazonic » Wed May 17, 2006 1:05 pm

i'll look into that brian, and get back to you on how i go- thanks heaps!

i'm going to steer clear of voice commands, as none i've found support coding, and i don't think they would understand me when i've got my mouth half-full with mouthstick :)

i've got mum handy to click links for me if i need it, as you can imagine it gets annoying when i come across javascript/flash menus..... the net's riddled with them.

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by brian » Thu May 18, 2006 10:17 am

I will keep my out and see if there is anything else but I suspect that the only solution would be to create icons for everything as I suggested
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by dazonic » Fri May 19, 2006 8:23 am

That extension seems like the go- unfortunately i had troubles installing it so for now i'll just use the address bar in the browser, until i fix. A good solution- Brian, you're a champ.

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by brian » Fri May 19, 2006 8:59 am

It worked fine for me. What was the problem?
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by brian » Fri May 19, 2006 2:21 pm

It has just occured to me that you may not have installed the module required as well.

You need to install it and then in the modules->admin modules section publish it in the icon position and unpublish the default icon panel
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by dazonic » Sat May 20, 2006 12:20 pm

It installed the module fine, and appears to install the component fine but on closer inspection the components/com_customquickicons dir is empty. The administrator/components/com_customquickicons is full tho...

I've had problems like this with other components too, not real sure what the problem is.

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by brian » Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:16 am

Just wondering how you are getting on?
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by dazonic » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:19 am

Not real good... i've always had silly errors installing components and modules, errors that no one else gets. I thought it was just Windows being Windows. I've switched to Fedora Core 5, Apache 2.2.0, PHP 5.1.4, MySQL 5.0.18 - rock solid. Still geting errors installing components....

This time it's:

Code: Select all

Notice: Undefined property: stdClass::$checked_out in /var/www/html/dc2.0/includes/joomla.php on line 5074

Notice: Undefined property: stdClass::$checked_out in /var/www/html/dc2.0/includes/joomla.php on line 5077

Notice: Undefined property: stdClass::$checked_out in /var/www/html/dc2.0/includes/joomla.php on line 5074

Notice: Undefined property: stdClass::$checked_out in /var/www/html/dc2.0/includes/joomla.php on line 5077

Notice: Undefined property: stdClass::$checked_out in /var/www/html/dc2.0/includes/joomla.php on line 5074

Notice: Undefined property: stdClass::$checked_out in /var/www/html/dc2.0/includes/joomla.php on line 5077

Notice: Undefined property: stdClass::$checked_out in /var/www/html/dc2.0/includes/joomla.php on line 5074

......
...when i go into Components > CustomQuickIcons (http://localhost/dc2.0/administrator/in ... quickicons)


Any ideas on that one? It's kinda getting to me.. i'm sure i've clocked up over 20 million mouthstick key taps on problems like this alone :(
Last edited by dazonic on Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by duvien » Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:32 pm

It could be that you are running mySQL 5 in strict mode, try this fix if you are still running Joomla 1.0.8: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,47032.0.html

Hope that helps and let us know how you get on.

thanks,

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by dazonic » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:21 pm

Still getting the same errors after upgrade to 1.0.9. I'll try reinstalling the extension....

While i'm here, i'll vent what's bugging me... this day and age, all these awesome changes to the WWW going ahead with "Web 2.0", standards being put in place, people waving their 508 flags... there's so many brand new AJAX web apps that just cannot be accessed by people with disabilities who can't use a mouse. There's not much i can do about it but its annoying! I'm not cracking up at the J! team, just the rest of the internet :)

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by duvien » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:03 pm

Just wondering how you are getting on?

May i also ask what you are using Joomla for?

thanks,
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by dazonic » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:49 am

hi, sorry for lack of updates. Still getting same old errors, not to worry- the custom quickicons extension still works to some degree.

duvien to answer your question, i'm re-doing the site of a downhill mountain bike club, of which i was a key member of. I'd started building the site with Mambo just before my accident, and discovered Joomla while cruising the net in rehab. Now i'm finally home after nearly 11 months it gives me something to do....

Windows XP and Gnome Desktop have some good accessibility options, MouseKeys gets me out of trouble if i ever neeeeeed it, although it's very slow.

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by duvien » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:09 am

Good to hear you have progress further this time round.

If you really ever need to have accesskey that who really help you, give me a shout (PM me).

I can try and embed them in the admin template (it's what i've done on my frontend website).

It's not an elegant solution as there's only so much you can add to it but it does work well, so long as i can find a way to hide them visually.

On my site i used numbers for the accesskeys, so ALT + 1 is homepage, ALT+ 4 for search page, ALT + 0 for Accessibility statement page and so on. If this will really help then i can see what i can do to better your experience with Joomla while we wait for better things to come. :)

thanks,

P.S. it would have to be some time this week i'm afraid as i'll really be too busy beginning of next week and on.

 
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by dazonic » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:03 am

cheers duvien :) thats a really nice gesture. I checked out your site and yeah- AccessKeys would make a wicked speedy navigation...
However.....I'm not sure how many others would benifit from it, and my needs don't really warrant that sort of effort- especially considering that i'm planning on getting better in the future! :) Thanks though.
Last edited by dazonic on Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by duvien » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:04 am

no worries, I am only trying to make myself useful. If i do add some accesskeys to the admin template, it would be posted here for anyone to download if it will help them too. But like i say it depends on time.

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by CirTap » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:58 am

Hi dazonic,
pardon me for jumping in... I ran across this post from someplace else.

But first, about these errors (notices in fact).
They're indeed disturbing but notices usually don't affect the code, unless they're forced to show up due to a PHP setting. This yelling may cause "interruption" of the session, sending cookies and thus bother the auth system etc.
Check the error_reporting property of PHP. I presume you run PHP5 and it runs in "strict mode". Open php.ini and change this line:

Code: Select all

error_reporting  =  (E_ALL & ~E_NOTICE);
The INI file should contain comments about what E_** means in case you care to know :)
This defines the allover global error-reporting level of PHP on your machine, but J! (in fact any script) may change this level at runtime.
Next, restart Apache if PHP runs as a module.

Test if this already solved the issue otherwise please read on...

The class in question (joompla.php mosCommonHTML) that throws these notices does not declare any of its properties, which is sth. PHP5 doesn't like at all if it runs in so-called "strict mode", that is error_reporting = E_STRICT. This super-high value is only useful for developers to debug and solid their code. Production sites should never ever use this since it may reveal pathnames and cause unneccessary trouble -- like yours.

Use a lower error level in the global configuration OR modify the file /configuration.php and change this value (probably having the value 2047 or higher):
$mosConfig_error_reporting = '2039';
That's the equivalent of E_ALL & ~E_NOTICE , the PHP internal constants. Global config should show the appropriate entry.
You may also use the constants instead of a number if you want to tweak it manually, but don't uses quotes then:
$mosConfig_error_reporting = E_ALL & ~E_NOTICE;
You will still see "warnings" if they occur, which is an indication that the script in question IS buggy or bad coded, since they *may* often lead to fatal errors.

Now 'bout "the other thing" :)
May I also ask about the progress? both yours, and the Admin interface.

I work on several non-joomla realted projects that have a high focus on accessibility (e.g. a Univerity site).
dazonic wrote:AccessKeys would make a wicked speedy navigation...
presuming there's be a "feature" that would allow you to configure the menu yourself incl. accesskeys, would that be of any help?
dazonic wrote:However.....I'm not sure how many others would benifit from it, and my needs don't really warrant that sort of effort ...
I'd say many would profit! I'm damn sure there a many handicapped people that would love to do administration tasks in any kind of backend. Joomla's not the only application that claims to offer accessibility on the frontend/site but lacks support in the backend.

I'm just thinking that a special Admin Template incl. some minor patches to a few files would allow you to have an interface ou can work with. I'd be happy to help you (in the first place and possibly others on the long run) if you take the role of a "consultant" about what's essential.
Since this "issue" will only be partially fixed with the advent of Joomla 1.5, I believe it's worth trying to build a template for the Administrator for "people with disabilities" - to stress this common wording :)

Please contact me via PM if you wish.

Good luck and have fun,
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by duvien » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:03 pm

There is a menu module called Extended Menu: http://de.siteof.de/extended-menu.html which allows accesskeys to be assigned to each menu item. But would be nice to also be able to assign tabindex key too.

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by CirTap » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:18 pm

Hi,

"we" were talking about the backend, right?
Extended menu - while being a great menu module/replacement - runs in the frontend only, iirc. However, I must admit that I haven't tried yet, what happens if it's placed into one of the template positions of the admin template...?

From what I learned in creating accessible sites, tabindex is no magic wand that'd solve navigation issues. Most people using screenreaders dislike them. They're usualy fine inside forms if the layout of input fields or buttons is not linear, that is source-order and visual-order don't match.
It's a supporting feature, and having the ability to access the various areas of a webpage more quickly requires different types of supporting navigation to jump to #anchors inside the page. However, this markup can easily placed into the template where such areas are actually defined, and does not need to be part of the administrator.

Have fun,
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by duvien » Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:34 pm

Yes i agree and you're right about Extended menu, it's used for the frontend. I've never tried placing it in the backend.

Have you also looked at Accessible (a8e) Joomla!( is a Joomla! fork that is making efforts to conforms to accessibility guidelines and standards (e.g. W3C )): http://forge.joomla.org/sf/projects/accessible_joomla

It has been neglected for some time but only recently the project is now quite active.

It could be a good starting point.

thanks,
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by dazonic » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:10 am

Hi guys,

After a bit more thought, i came to the conclusion that while AccessKeys would make regularly used areas of the administration faster, it wouldn't really totally solve "my" problem. I've seen examples of menus what would illustrate what i've got in mind, and i've spent a whhile hunting them down before i posted here, but i'm empty handed.

I'm thinking something similar to [url=http://"http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/example/"]Suckerfish[/url] CSS dropdown menus. With a mouse it will act the same as the current menus- the same way Suckerfish menus usually operate, but i've seen examples where the menu header (say, 'Components') is a tabbable link as well as a mouseover, and when tabbed to and selected (or in my case i've entered the corresponding Mouseless Browsing number), rather than just taking me to # and doing nothing, it expands the menu. Other Suckerfish menus don't operate like this- clicking (selecting via tabbing) the menu header will take you to a kind of map page with a detailed description of each of the menu items. This would be pointless in the Joomla admin area, having an extra page of what we already know. Am i making any sense?? I'd love to have an example, sorry..

This is probably (well, maybe) the long-term vision for the team anyway, but of all the dropdown menus i've seen and used, these work totally in my favour.

CirTap, progress-wise, concerning my site, i've changed the error report in php.ini as per what you said and yeah, you were right. The extension works fine, as it did before, but with no long list of warning things- cheers.

Concerning my recovery, i have reasonable power in my left bicep which has increased considerably. My injury was a burst fracture to C4/5 which usually means no movement below the neck, bar shoulder shrugging, and my left bicep has increased from nothing at all after 1 week to a slight flicker at 6 weeks, and it was 3 months before it could lift the weight of the hand. I can type one handed with a special splint, it's very tiring though and i find the mouthstick much quicker. I enjoy drawing too (see crappy self portrait in my avatar). Anyway i could go on for ages. It's been an interesting journey.

Now, the menu i've got in mind- is it a viable option for future versions? Does what i'm talking about make sense and if so, does this kind of menu even exist??

Cheers,

- daz


PS.  I find tab-index very handy where it's implemented properly- especially while posting here. From the Subject field, i don't have to tab all the way through B, I, U, S   etc etc... I'm a bit let down to hear that they don't play well with screen readers, oh well.
Last edited by dazonic on Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by jonhurlock » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:35 pm

I'll try making an admin accessible template this week which i will release under the GNU /GPL licence for all to use. Ill start tommorow as its rather late here.

A nice little project for me  :D

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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by DarrenH » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:13 pm

Hi

I suffer from a similar problem...

I'm totally blind and use a screen reader, so when the cursor is focussed on the menue item, the list expands I assume, but I have no way of accessing the expanded list as I would have to shift cursor focus to the item I want.

confused?  yeah me too.

I called the tech support team of the screen reader supplier and they say they can program a script as a work around, but they charge £500 a day for scripting, oh joy.

I look forward to seeing progress on this one

Cheers
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by brian » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:17 pm

DarrenH can I ask you which screen reader you use and if you will be willing to offer a little period of time to help test joomla with your screen reader and to identify problem areas.
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Re: Admin accessibility- please help.

Post by DarrenH » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:24 pm

Hi

yeah, of course I'd be willing to help out.

I'm not really a tech type so excuse if I ask dumb questions.

I'm using jaws for Windows v7.1

Cheers
Darren

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