Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

How to support more than one language on your site.

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Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by akede » Mon May 15, 2006 2:50 pm

Hello everybody,

as of the 1.7 stable is released we start to think about the next version.

There are already some good ideas which we would like to address in one of the next versions. Some for 2.0 - others could be implemted in a next version already.

What's about you?
Which features are you missing?

Please use our tracker at: http://forge.joomla.org/sf/tracker/do/l ... ed_on_joom

to post your ideas. You are welcome to discuss those features also here on the forum/thread.

Many thank's to all of you

Alex
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by 55thinking » Tue May 16, 2006 11:48 pm

Write a comprehensive documentation & how to's guide:

1. how to deal with  images with text in the template or in the template's css
2. how to deal with the global configuration metadatas keywords & description

These are simple things that are with no answers neither in the forum or the wiki of the project
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by per » Wed May 17, 2006 1:42 pm

In the backend when going to Component -> Joom!Fish -> Translation it would be nice to have an option to display all items where the original has changed (where the little yellow lamp is displayed) regardless of type of content element. Now I have to go through all content elements to find them.

Or is it already an easier way to find them?

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by akede » Wed May 17, 2006 1:43 pm

Hi 55,

1.) are you interested in changing the whole template or just some images in the template?

2.) These issues are not solved/implemented yet :(
    see http://forge.joomla.org/sf/discussion/d ... l.topc3122
    we are working on defining an idea about it and will document it then.

Thx for your feedback

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by akede » Wed May 17, 2006 1:43 pm

per wrote: In the backend when going to Component -> Joom!Fish -> Translation it would be nice to have an option to display all items where the original has changed (where the little yellow lamp is displayed) regardless of type of content element. Now I have to go through all content elements to find them.

Or is it already an easier way to find them?
Nope this feature is open yet - ack
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by akede » Wed May 17, 2006 2:06 pm

55thinking wrote: 1. how to deal with  images with text in the template or in the template's css
Taking community serious ;-)

http://forge.joomla.org/sf/wiki/do/view ... guageImage

Cheers

Alex

PS: It wasn't there - I just wrote it down
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by 55thinking » Wed May 17, 2006 2:31 pm

Thanks Alex

Great feedback. Once I will have finished the joomla/joomfish implementation i am working around,  I plan to summarized a list of simple Tips & Tricks.

The open issue regarding the global site configuration meta data keywords & description + title is a very serious issue as regards to the SEO perspective. Any quick & dirty workaround for joomfish 1.7 ???
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by akede » Wed May 17, 2006 3:11 pm

55thinking wrote: Great feedback. Once I will have finished the joomla/joomfish implementation i am working around,  I plan to summarized a list of simple Tips & Tricks.
Very good - just post it at the joomfish project discussions and we can integrate them into the wikli.
55thinking wrote: The open issue regarding the global site configuration meta data keywords & description + title is a very serious issue as regards to the SEO perspective. Any quick & dirty workaround for joomfish 1.7 ???
Only that you overwrite the values in your language file. This file will be loaded after the configuration.php making it possible to change those variables.

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by 55thinking » Wed May 17, 2006 3:16 pm

understood !

I'll try that & let you know
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by lpkb » Wed May 17, 2006 3:46 pm

2 suggestions:
  • Integration with OpenSEF or making it easier for them to integrate with JoomFish (I understand you were talking with those developers already?)
  • An admin module of some kind to allow side by side translation in the back end? An idea so that when you add new content, it will have a button/tab on the right saying "Add translations" or something.

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by akede » Thu May 18, 2006 7:41 am

Hi lpkb,

:) looks like we are a little ahead.

Joe (eyzberg) and Geraint have developed a first admin module making it possible to do excatly what you are thinking about. I didn't had the time to test both concepts in detail yet but we are looking forward to release such a solution as an addon for the fish.

@seo
Yes we are talking to the devs already. It's basically not a big issue just some "standards" we need to define

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by Touti » Wed May 31, 2006 6:45 pm

Not sure if that is even possible.

Add support for language dependant content.  Certain things in Joomla require more than a simple translation.  Best example is the RSS Feeds, currently it is not possible (at least to my knowledge  :-\) to create feeds based on language.  Everyone has to see everything.

I would like to be able to give my users only newsfeeds in their own language.

Edit: I think I found my answer in the "How to use language dependent menu items /menus" article.

http://forge.joomla.org/sf/wiki/do/view ... nguageMenu
Last edited by Touti on Wed May 31, 2006 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by frikkif » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:08 pm

Great component!

One thing that I miss in the 1.7 version is the option:
"Hide non translated menus".

Edit: Sorry, I see this already is in the list on the Forge  :-[
Last edited by frikkif on Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by JimDeLaHunt » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:30 am

Hi,

As a newbie to Joom!Fish 1.7 and Joomla 1.0.8, my two biggest requests are:

1. Better documentation about the process of installing Joomla for multilingual use, installing Joom!Fish, and finding and installing language packs.  At least have a detailed wiki page or forum article with step-by-step installation instructions.  Better yet, incorporate JoomFish and language pack installation into the Joomla installation process.

2. Have language packs include translations for "menus" (i.e. menu items) and "modules" (especially the titles of menus) which are included with the Joomla! sample data.  Right now, I can install a language pack (e.g. German or Japanese), and only about 1/4 of the strings on the main page start appearing in that language.  About 3/4 continue to appear in English.  I'd like to see translations for strings such as "Home", "Contact Us", "Newsfeeds", "FAQs", etc. as part of the language packs.

I'm willing to contribute to the Joom!Fish Wiki as soon as I can get access. If I can't post there, I can post to a forum topic here.  For an example of what I'm after, here are the instructions I wrote for installing Joomla for multilingual use on my web hosting provider, DreamHost: http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php/Joomla! .

My thanks to everyone who has built all these great tools so far. I look forward to helping.
    --Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, BC, Canada and San Jose, California, USA
Jim DeLaHunt, multilingual website consultant (jdlh.com), Vancouver, Canada. http://blog.jdlh.com

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by akede » Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:23 pm

Touti wrote: Add support for language dependant content.  Certain things in Joomla require more than a simple translation.  Best example is the RSS Feeds, currently it is not possible (at least to my knowledge  :-\) to create feeds based on language.  Everyone has to see everything.
Hi,

Joomla! 1.5 will go one step into this direction as there you will be able to set the language of a content item. And the RSS feeds and other extentions can use this information in order to provide specific information in one language.

This is an imporant thing which requires combined work of Joomla! core and the fish.

You can also look at the RDRSS extention. It helps with this issue a bit.

Alex
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by akede » Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:46 pm

Hi Jim,
JimDeLaHunt wrote: 1. Better documentation about the process of installing Joomla for multilingual use, installing Joom!Fish, and finding and installing language packs.  At least have a detailed wiki page or forum article with step-by-step installation instructions.  Better yet, incorporate JoomFish and language pack installation into the Joomla installation process.
Have you seen the user manual on the help.joomla.org site? Basically the language installation is quite strait forward, and the installation of the fish requires only the component installation - nothing more.

But I'm fine with it to add an wiki page on the joomfish project about it. You can easily post a forums entry on joomfish.net in the discussions or submit a information in one of the tracker attaching a text to it. I will then upload it to the wiki.
JimDeLaHunt wrote: 2. Have language packs include translations for "menus" (i.e. menu items) and "modules" (especially the titles of menus) which are included with the Joomla! sample data.  Right now, I can install a language pack (e.g. German or Japanese), and only about 1/4 of the strings on the main page start appearing in that language.  About 3/4 continue to appear in English.  I'd like to see translations for strings such as "Home", "Contact Us", "Newsfeeds", "FAQs", etc. as part of the language packs.
That's a bit tricky because the information, like the menu items, are not stored in the the text files at all - those information are the dynamic information which are stored in the database. And for the translation for those information, you have the fish.

However - Joomla! 1.5 will include a multi lingual translation for the installation process and a link to the help.joomla.org page where you can download addtional language files.

1.5 will make it also more easy to install automatically translated sample data which will be provided by the translations teams.

One last remark. Ivo has published a project on forge.joomla.org, which includes a multilingual database already. You can select from several language while installation and directly get the translated sample data installed.
JimDeLaHunt wrote: I'm willing to contribute to the Joom!Fish Wiki as soon as I can get access. If I can't post there, I can post to a forum topic here. 
Many thank's for your support!

The official forums of the fish run at joomfish.net - on this forge you will find couple of discussion boards and additional information.

Cheers

Alex
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by JimDeLaHunt » Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:09 am

Alex,
akede wrote:
JimDeLaHunt wrote: 1. Better documentation about the process of installing Joomla for multilingual use, installing Joom!Fish, and finding and installing language packs.  At least have a detailed wiki page or forum article with step-by-step installation instructions.  Better yet, incorporate JoomFish and language pack installation into the Joomla installation process.
Have you seen the user manual on the help.joomla.org site? Basically the language installation is quite strait forward, and the installation of the fish requires only the component installation - nothing more.
Yes, I read the user manual on the help.joomla.org site, and I think it doesn't provide what I'm asking for in #1 above. It doesn't mention Joom!Fish, or where to find language packs, or how to set Joomla! to use UTF-8.  Also there's little documentation about the higher-level site planning issues: for instance, whether to put your site in UTF-8 or other encodings, and interactions between Joom!Fish and OpenSEF. For me, especially because I wanted my site in UTF-8 to allow postings in both German and Japanese, there were many extra steps. It was complex enough to be worth further documentation.
akede wrote: But I'm fine with it to add an wiki page on the joomfish project about it. You can easily post a forums entry on joomfish.net in the discussions or submit a information in one of the tracker attaching a text to it. I will then upload it to the wiki.
Good!  I'll package the documentation I'm writing on my provider's wiki and post it on the joomfish.net forums. I'll let you and others on the Joom!Fish team take it from there.
akede wrote:
JimDeLaHunt wrote: 2. Have language packs include translations for "menus" (i.e. menu items) and "modules" (especially the titles of menus) which are included with the Joomla! sample data.  Right now, I can install a language pack (e.g. German or Japanese), and only about 1/4 of the strings on the main page start appearing in that language.  About 3/4 continue to appear in English.  I'd like to see translations for strings such as "Home", "Contact Us", "Newsfeeds", "FAQs", etc. as part of the language packs.
That's a bit tricky because the information, like the menu items, are not stored in the the text files at all - those information are the dynamic information which are stored in the database.
You are right, it's tricky.  But I'm making a point about user benefit.  The user (a Joomla! site administrator) doesn't care how hard it is to accomplish these things. They just want the results.  And, from a naive user point of view, if the Joomla! installer can inject some sample data, why can't the Joom!Fish installer inject some sample translations?  (If Joom!Fish were part of the Joomla! install, then this would probably be much easier for the user and the Joom!Fish developer.)
akede wrote: And for the translation for those information, you have the fish.
Maybe I didn't make my point clear.  If I have to figure out the German words for the standard Joomla! English-language menu items, then I am redoing work that many others have done before. That is a waste. It would be much better for someone to do the translation once, then package their work in a form that I and others can easily take advantage of.
akede wrote: However - Joomla! 1.5 will include a multi lingual translation for the installation process and a link to the help.joomla.org page where you can download addtional language files.

1.5 will make it also more easy to install automatically translated sample data which will be provided by the translations teams.
Translating the installation UI into multiple languages is very helpful for many Joomla! administrators, but it's not what I was referring to in #2. Putting a link from help.joomla.org to sources for language files would be a step towards #1.
akede wrote: One last remark. Ivo has published a project on forge.joomla.org, which includes a multilingual database already. You can select from several language while installation and directly get the translated sample data installed.
Interesting. I'll take a look for it when I have time.  But my main focus in this post is on suggesting features for future Joom!Fish releases, not on solving my own problems.
akede wrote: The official forums of the fish run at joomfish.net - on this forge you will find couple of discussion boards and additional information.
You mean http://joomfish.net/ which redirects to http://forge.joomla.org/sf/sfmain/do/vi ... .joomfish/ , right?  Yes, I took a look there. I have suggestions for the documentation at that site, which I'll post in the discussion boards there.

Thanks for the replies!
    --Jim DeLaHunt  jdlh.com
Jim DeLaHunt, multilingual website consultant (jdlh.com), Vancouver, Canada. http://blog.jdlh.com

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by raschidt » Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:49 pm

Is there opens sef support yet?

Or any SEF option?

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by kenmcd » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:37 am

OpenSEF Joom!Fish support is currently in development and testing.
It is being done a part of a project for a large multi-national web site.

When finished this will be included in the upcoming RC6 release.
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by eyezberg » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:31 pm

SEF Advance works
Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. AE
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by houbahop » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:33 am

translate comments would be nice if not allready possible (I didn't find)

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by akede » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:42 am

houbahop wrote: translate comments would be nice if not allready possible (I didn't find)
Comments? You are talking about an extension such as akocomment, are you? That's already possible - check out the Discussionboard of the Joom!Fish. There are several posts how to do this.

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by houbahop » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:08 am

Tnx alex, it's ok.
I was a pure noob on joomfish yesterday  :laugh:

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by ChiefGoFor » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:33 pm

kenmcd wrote:
OpenSEF Joom!Fish support is currently in development and testing.
It is being done a part of a project for a large multi-national web site.

When finished this will be included in the upcoming RC6 release.
@Ken - Any idea when these will be released? Also, is there a way to get a beta copy to test?
Last edited by ChiefGoFor on Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by kenmcd » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:38 pm

ChiefGoFor wrote:
kenmcd wrote:
OpenSEF Joom!Fish support is currently in development and testing.
It is being done a part of a project for a large multi-national web site.

When finished this will be included in the upcoming RC6 release.
@Ken - Any idea when these will be leased? Also, is there a way to get a beta copy to test?
Answered here:
http://www.open-sef.org/component/optio ... /,#msg8133
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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by translatum » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:53 pm

I think xliff implementation (I know it is already on your plans) is a very important step to make joomla appealing to corporations which handle a great deal of multilingual content.

See how plone (an open source CMS) implemented it.

http://plone.org/documentation/whatsnew ... ltilingual
http://plone.org/products/linguaplone
http://ploneconf2005.bluedynamics.net/t ... nf2005.pdf

Another great future I would like to see on joomla is a good live search (ajax search). The modules currently offered are not that good.

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by confusedxx » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:26 am

A key feature that I would love to see in multi-lingual sites is:

The ability to have translated meta data (keywords and description) for each translated content piece.

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by akede » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:42 am

Hi - this is already on the feature list.

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by translatum » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:44 am

I do not see much progress on the xliff front. Has it been dropped?

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Re: Feature planning for Joom!Fish 1.8

Post by th3d » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:40 pm

Hi!

Frontend translation would be quite useful thing, so it would be easy to build community that would have ability to translate completly page. Now can we use dirty hacks to bring (backend) component to frontend.

What do you think as a developer? Is it difficult? Is it usefull? Necessary?

Best regards,

Dean


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