[IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Discuss the integration of Joomla! with other products. ie SMF, phpbb etc etc

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Hackwar » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:08 pm

malibu wrote: So, what else is needed?  Fish is being developed.  Comments exist in component form, I think it should be integrated into core.  There are several components that all have their own way of including comments, or stand alone comment management--a unified approach in the core would greatly benefit all the components that want to take advantage--without tripping over each other.  Traceback would be needed.  Pinging?  Categories is supposed to be addressed soon.  User priveleges I believe is being addressed.  What else is needed?  Not trying to be a 'snot', I'm just trying to advocate resources going to the benefit of the community as a whole I guess.
I agree with you that a bridge is the wrong way to approach integrating functions, but as far as I can see it the functions you are searching for are all better in a component then in the core. The core is supposed to be lightweight and provide the API that is used by components and stuff. I think User rights and categories fit into the core, in general, everything that is needed by more than one function. The rest is all an issues for 3P Developers. (A few components have to be with every basic Joomla install. (Administrative Interface, component installer, basic site configuration...))

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by TigerLord » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:00 am

I posted this in General and Predator pointed me to this nice thread... I just want to share and ask something at the same time to tell the dev what I'm (and probably other people who don't release yet :D) interested in !

Three days ago, exhausted in trying to hack core files for simple things, I decided to drop Joomla and went seeking other CMS or Blog utilities. Why? Because my homepage is principally a blog page, with multiple daily headlines. I needed a good blog that si easily customizable so that my headlines and news could be displayed as I wanted.

I tried Drupal, e107 and Wordpress. Forget Drupal, Wordpress is probably the one very powerful blog manager and e107 well, has the best blog feature for a CMS but lacks other features. The fact remains, Joomla is more professionnal, has a better admin interface and is packed with much more features. I realised that the only problem I had left with Joomla was the lack of capabilities to customize how to present my blogs (using tags like in wordpress, such as {category}. {newsicon}, {date}, {categoryicon}, etc) Joomla gives the ability to show category name, section name, etc... but NOT where or how.

Therefore, I ask:
Is the integration of wordpress or any other more powerful blog component possible with Joomla?

It makes no sense for me to build my page without Joomla. I prefer to wait for a new release that hopefully will come with better blog capabilities. Anyone knows if this is currently being worked on ?

I was a n00b 3 weeks ago. I've learned so much in this time, and I did it with Joomla. It might sound stupid, but my heart belongs to Joomla. I just hate its blog feature.

Thank you for your time:)

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by TigerLord » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:11 am

Maybe I should point this too.. scubaguy said in this thread: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,13103.0.html

"
I think the RSS 2 Joomla auto import http://developer.joomla.org/sf/sfmain/d ... mport&nbsp; May solve the blogging issue for many people.  You use a true blogging tool like WordPress to manage your blog and then have the content automatically created in Joomla from your blog feed."

It actually makes a lot of sense to me. Since the only big fight for me was customizing the presentation of the blogs (hacking the core files to have the category show on the same line as the date isn't practical) ... what has become of this project?

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by fberneron » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:58 am

Hi evrybooody,

I'll go for the component, if you need my vote... I assume it would be easier to develop and maintain in a first stage, and, once stable/fully functional/whatever, it could be moved into the core.

On the top of it, I think a collaborative work would be easier on a component than on the core of Joomla itself.

Oh, by the way, maybe we should really start a new discussion thread for this blog-in-Joomla issue.

Cheers y'all

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Elpie » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:01 pm

malibu wrote: My question is:  what else has to be done to make Joomla all blog worthy so that bridging of apps like b2evo is NOT necessary.
Rewrite the road map and turn it into a blog  :P  Bridging isn't necessary either if an application like b2evo is made into a component :)
My reasoning is because bridges are a continual drain of developer resources.  Frankly, I'd go so far as to say if you want to use another blog CMS, than use it. Don't try to bridge it into Joomla.
This is the crux of the issue.  The line is blurring between cms and blogs BUT blogs have one purpose and cms another.
When I design a site I chose whichever tools are best suited for the type of site I am doing.  If the client needs content management, I use a cms.  If the client wants a blog, I use b2evo.  However, if a client wants both a website with cms functionality and a blog feature, I have to weigh up whether Joomla! will work for them.  At the moment, the only way to have a full-featured blog appearing to be part of the site is by using a wrapper.  Some blogging systems have moved more towards cms but none do it with the functionality of Joomla! None of them is capable of being used on a professional or business site without a whole heap of work.
For me, this is not a case of either using a blog or using Joomla! - some clients want both in a seamless system.
What function does Joomla provide then?  Just seems like a LOT of extra developer resources dedicated to trying to make two applications that function completely by themselves marry up to each other.  My fear is that this will take resources away from making Joomla capable of meeting the web design communities needs on it's own.
Why should it? 3rd party components are just that.  Their development does not impact on the development of the core.
On the other hand, as a designer, I waste countless hours trying to marry up Joomla! with b2evo and get iframes working properly across browsers. 
So, what else is needed?  Fish is being developed.  Comments exist in component form, I think it should be integrated into core.  There are several components that all have their own way of including comments, or stand alone comment management--a unified approach in the core would greatly benefit all the components that want to take advantage--without tripping over each other.  Traceback would be needed.  Pinging?  Categories is supposed to be addressed soon.  User priveleges I believe is being addressed.  What else is needed?  Not trying to be a 'snot', I'm just trying to advocate resources going to the benefit of the community as a whole I guess.
I personally feel that the approach Joomla! appears to be taking is the right one - a robust and flexible cms that will meet the needs of the widest possible market.  It is not a blog, though it can be used that way.  Adding the features of a blog as part of the core would make it less appealing, in my opinion, certainly in the markets in which I work.  Trackbacks, pings, referrers - all have their place in blogs.  If there was a component developed, people then have the choice of whether to add that feature or not.  Presumably, they would also be aware of the issues managing the spam they attract.

I guess by now you will have realized that I like Joomla! as it is and as it is proposed to develop  :)  It is not proposed to develop it into a blog.  3rd party add-ons that give more options when developing sites are great, and I hope the bridge/component/whatever for b2evo becomes one of them. 
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by TigerLord » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:02 pm

Elpie wrote: I personally feel that the approach Joomla! appears to be taking is the right one - a robust and flexible cms that will meet the needs of the widest possible market.  It is not a blog, though it can be used that way.  Adding the features of a blog as part of the core would make it less appealing, in my opinion, certainly in the markets in which I work.  Trackbacks, pings, referrers - all have their place in blogs.  If there was a component developed, people then have the choice of whether to add that feature or not.  Presumably, they would also be aware of the issues managing the spam they attract.
I agree with the above statement. Having both capabilities within the same portal woul seem less appealing. I also thing Joomla's growing in the good direction. But like Elpie mentionned, some people need boh capabilities, and having a powerful blog component would be amazing.

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by malibu » Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:13 pm

Elpie wrote:Trackbacks, pings, referrers - all have their place in blogs.  If there was a component developed, people then have the choice of whether to add that feature or not.  Presumably, they would also be aware of the issues managing the spam they attract.
That was my question Elpie, the things I've heard mentioned that would be needed are:

1) Comments
2) Traceback
3) Pings
4) Referrers
5) More options for formatting content

Thanks for the insights.  I would still advocate component over bridge. I'll let it go now and let the people who actually have to do the hard work decide!  :D
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by vavroom » Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:36 pm

malibu wrote: 1) Comments
Currently available through 3PD component
malibu wrote: 2) Traceback
3) Pings
4) Referrers
Could be done as a component, or several.
malibu wrote: 5) More options for formatting content
Ok, this is taking the original thread a bit astray, but which options for formating content do you not have now that you would like to see?

Thanks for the insights.  I would still advocate component over bridge. I'll let it go now and let the people who actually have to do the hard work decide!  :D
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by malibu » Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:58 pm

vavroom wrote:
malibu wrote: 5) More options for formatting content
Ok, this is taking the original thread a bit astray, but which options for formating content do you not have now that you would like to see?
I was trying to summarize what other people had shared as seen "shortcomings" of the current blog capability.  I was referring to TigerLord's comments with item #5
&mp;quot;TigerLord"\ wrote:Since the only big fight for me was customizing the presentation of the blogs (hacking the core files to have the category show on the same line as the date isn't practical) ...
Not a personal concern... may or may not be a valid need to blogging component.
Last edited by malibu on Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by TigerLord » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:10 pm

Well I think that blog formatting would be indeed really relevant to a blog component. Wordpress and b2evolution allow it, because it is important, and allowing to format our own blog allows the blog to blend with our site design sometimes much better. The only other thing I need is a multi-user blog, where the member of my site could post their own blog. This becomes very interesting, sharing album/concert reviews, etc (I own a music website).

The reason why Wordpress/b2evolution are so powerful is that  we display our blog as we see fit,which adds sometimes a more "warm" aspect o the site. The professionnal and most popular way of displaying headlines is with a title, body, and at the end, date and author. Displaying differently is a pain at the moment (displaying the category name beside the date was just one example. I had to hack the core files for this, when in wordpress, a simple {category} was needed) and I'm sure many users would appreciate a more flexible solution.


I'm not sure how much work this is. Elpie said it, b2evolution is a very powerful tool and one make one hell of a component. I don't really see what we have to lose implementing it in Joomla ?
Last edited by TigerLord on Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Predator » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:32 pm

OK ok i have read enough pros and cons and have decided to make a component  ;)

I will create next week a project on the forge and than start.

I want to keep the original database structure as much as possible to give the change to convert the original blogs into the component.
Last edited by Predator on Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by TigerLord » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:33 pm

w00t w00t :D

Thank you very much :) Looking forward to your component  :D

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by zhous » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:31 am

Thanks, Marko! I think a bride is better, not just because we don't like to keep a long time wait again, but also easier to maintenance, don't forget YOU ARE BUSY.

Keep Joomla stand alone as a pure CMS might be better than mixed with Blog. I think Joomla's Blog is a very bad word. The true meaning of Joomla's Blog is "Blog Style". "Blog" makes some people get the wrong way.
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by TigerLord » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:07 pm

since this may take a few weeks, maybe months (???) whats the best temporary solution for now ?

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Elpie » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:20 am

TigerLord wrote: since this may take a few weeks, maybe months (???) whats the best temporary solution for now ?
The only real workaround for now is to create your blog, bring it back to basics (ie. modify your template so there are no headers, footers, etc) and put it inside a wrapper.  That way it looks the same as the rest of your site and visitors are not aware that it resides outside your site.
You may have to change the blogs cms to get it looking the same as your Joomla! install.
I also use .htaccess to block any direct calls to the blog so anyone who wants to see it has to view it from the Joomla! wrapper.

It's a bit fiddly and gets very annoying if you have to do it over with many different sites, but until there is a bridge or component, its the only way to have it appear as though it is part of the site.
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by TigerLord » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:59 pm

Can you still format your blog how you wish? Im a n00b to Joomla, so I'm not sure what a wrapper does or what it is...  :-[

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Elpie » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:34 pm

TigerLord wrote: Can you still format your blog how you wish? I'm a n00b to Joomla, so I'm not sure what a wrapper does or what it is...  :-[
Yes. Your blog runs as your blog, your Joomla! runs as Joomla! but instead of just having a straight link between the two (and having to mess around a lot with your templates to have your site look unified) you place a link to it through a wrapper.
If you look in your menu you will see an option to link to a wrapper - this then gives you the option to add the URL you want to appear inside the wrapper.
The wrapper acts as a frame and all pages inside it then get the same template you are using on your Joomla! installation.
This is why it is necessary to strip out the template from your blog - otherwise you will see that template inside the frame, as well as your Joomla! template.

Backend administration of your blog is still handled outside of Joomla! All that changes is that you have a site that all looks the same and which seems, to the visitors, as if it is all part of the same thing.

I hope I am making sense here  :-\  It's 3.30am for me right now and my brain isn't telling my writing to be as clear as it is when I am fully awake.
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by TigerLord » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:21 pm

Thank you Elpie, very much ! You were indeed clear :)

So I guess I have to install b2evolution seperately, formatting it like I want but without any templating, and then pointing joomla to it...

Does b2evolution generate a text file of some sort to be pointed too ? And is comment system operational?

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Elpie » Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:45 am

Replied to privately.
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Tobias Eigen » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:18 am

Hi folks,

Just a quick note to say I've read this thread from top to bottom and am glad this b2evolution component/bridge is being developed. Much appreciated! I'll keep watching, and create a b2evolution blog on my site for the time being and hopefully at some stage integrate it into my Joomla site.

Cheers,

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by TigerLord » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:03 pm

Was wondering how you were progressing on this project??? Is it hard, is it doable ? :)

Anyway, good luck :)

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Elpie » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:29 am

TigerLord wrote: Was wondering how you were progressing on this project??? Is it hard, is it doable ? :)

Anyway, good luck :)
On 31st October, Marko wrote:
OK ok i have read enough pros and cons and have decided to make a component  Wink

I will create next week a project on the forge and than start.
This is only just "next week" so how about we all just be patient (LOL, I can hardly wait for this myself!) and leave him to get on with things as and when he can?  We will all be told when it is ready but I, for one, am looking forward to a very good component, not a rush job  :P
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by TigerLord » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:23 pm

I was barely asking what was the progress on this or if he had maybe abandoned it, becasue I didnt find any project on the forge to see the actual progress.. Im anxious :)

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Predator » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:05 pm

Had not time yet to start this as project ( all local at the moment ) also doing at the moment a customerjob a complete wiki integration, wnat to do this all the time but since i got a request last week i do this first, but is almost finished, see demo here:

http://www.joomladeveloping.org/index.p ... iki:syntax

Not much left todo ( SEF compatible URL's is nearly the last point ) if finished i also release this under the GPL ;) for free.

Also i have a customer request for a Wordpress integration too :(
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by TigerLord » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:19 pm

Awesome stuff ! :)

Btw, be it wordpress or b2evolution, I'll use the first you make, but I think I Elpie did make a point: b2evolution is actually more powerful.

Whatever you'll do, if one of your client's paying you for Wordpress, it makes sense to do it before :)

Anyway, good luck with everything !

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Predator » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:37 pm

I will make both WordPress and b2evolution, WordPress is really easy to integrate ;) so need not long for this, the wiki tokes me 3 days.
The "Humor, Fun and Games" forum has  more than 2500 Posts, so why not build a "Humor, Fun and Games Working" Group?
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Malicious tongues say we have this WG right from the start, they call it core team :D

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by asleif » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:11 pm

hi, predator!

if you have finished, you will be the hero of the day, no, say: hero of the year! very cool!

i was looking for that so long...

greetz,
asleif

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Elpie » Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:27 am

TigerLord wrote: I was barely asking what was the progress on this or if he had maybe abandoned it, becasue I didnt find any project on the forge to see the actual progress.. Im anxious :)
I fully understand TigerLord :)  However, when Marko says he is going to do something, he never lets people down.

Over the years of being involved in open source projects I have seen many component developers just stop offering to do things, simply because of the pressure being put on them by the community.  I am NOT saying that you are doing that!  BUT - everyone has to realize that when someone says they are prepared to make something for us all, they are doing this at some cost to themselves.  We get the component, bot, whatever, free, they make it out of the goodness of their hearts and get no compensation for their efforts.

Developers should not have to come and explain why they can't get on to a project right away.  I am not saying that this thread could become like some of the others I have seen, but it is not uncommon for members of an open source community to keep pushing and pushing to see some progress, then complain when they can't see anything happening.  Then they complain if the component/script/whatever doesn't quite meet their requirements, or they can't get support, or that it hasn't been updated in line with core updates, or, or.... get the picture?
I hope Marko doesn't read this or he might wonder why he makes components for us!  ;D

I've just seen too many developers walk away from doing much for the community, because of community expectations.  If I sound like I am running interference here and asking people to leave Marko alone for now, well, I guess I am.  I have waited for this component for a few years now, some more time isn't going to hurt.
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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by marcus.at.internet » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:30 pm

Hi,

Just stepping in to let you know that there might already be a solution available:

http://www.websiterepairguys.com/index. ... &Itemid=36

See for a sample integration:

http://www.websiterepairguys.com/index. ... &Itemid=33

Haven't tried it myself, though, but on the websiterepairguys' website it looks promising.

Even a module for the b2evo blocks is available:

http://www.websiterepairguys.com/index. ... &Itemid=36

Maybe Predator can join forces here...

Thanks for Joomla, btw!
Marcus
Last edited by marcus.at.internet on Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [IN PROGESS] - Bridge to b2evolution blog

Post by Elpie » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:29 pm

I had quickly looked at this one, but it is not much good. It strips away almost all the features of b2evo.
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