what happened to opensef?

[trichnosis]

Hi

i have searched this on joomla forums and developers forum but i did not see any information about this .

Does anybody know anythink about OPENSEF ?

is that dead ?

Developers are explaining nothink about this . there is no information about them on joomla forums or their own forums  . one of the developers ( http://forum.joomla.org/index.php?action=profile;u=65 ) is away for nearly one months .

I have 2 web site and i'm using opensef for both of my web site .

is it time to uninstall the opensef  ?

What do you think ?

[pe7er]

No, it's still alive and available at: http://projects.j-prosolution.com/en/pr ... ensef.html

[trichnosis]

No, it's still alive and available at: http://projects.j-prosolution.com/en/pr ... ensef.html

yes , there is a web page there but developers are away from their web site and they are explaining nothink about their components future

[tenaki]

The lead developer has not been active since  11-19-2006 07:47 AM

Shame really, hope he is ok

[pe7er]

The lead developer has not been active since  11-19-2006 07:47 AM

Shame really, hope he is ok

Please keep in mind that, like many other extensions, OpenSEF is free.
It's an open source project coded by volunteers in their own time.

If they are busy doing other things (e.g. earning some money, they have to make a living too) they are free to do so.

[tenaki]

It's not a critism from me it's a question, that being that the lead developer hasn't been online since Nov06 which is unusual for him, even if work were frantic you would expect a developer to at the least visit the site to make sure all is ok, which raises my point above, does anyone know if he is alright.

If he is and is just too busy then thats fine with me I can wait

[trichnosis]

... even if work were frantic you would expect a developer to at the least visit the site to make sure all is ok ...

totally i agree with you

[AmyStephen]

Please read . I think Marko made it pretty clear that he is contributing what he is able. I've seen Marko posting in here recently. I have not seen Ken around for a couple of months. I appreciate what they have both done, as well, both have been huge contributors to Mambo and Joomla! communities.

For those of you who use OpenSEF, maybe you could help with some of the forum questions there. I don't use any SEF URL tool, but, if someone is concerned for the developers, pitching in with some answers for other community members is perhaps the best way to express that concern and to also help reduce some of the mounting workload.

Just an idea - but, I think it would be great if those who have a bit of OpenSEF knowledge would help that way. 

[Asphyx]

At this point in the J! life we should be aware that development on some 3PD projects may be stalled or paused while the devs wait on the RC status of J! 1.5

If a security bug should be exposed they might do more work on a 1.0.X component but I think that many 3PDs are now busy with looking at 1.5 or on hold waiting until 1.5 is stable enough to continue development.

We need to be patient at this time!

[AmyStephen]

That makes a lot of sense, thanks Mike!

[AmyStephen]

Maybe the plan is that OpenSEF might not be needed?

Edit: Modifying my post to avoid spreading misinformation. See Marko's post, below, or in the OpenSEF form . OpenSEF is planned for Joomla! v 1.5.

[Asphyx]

Well OpenSEF will probably still be needed for legacy components that are not written to the 1.5 SEO engine...

Joomla itself had never really required an SEF component I don't believe...All it needed was SEO turned on and the HTACCESS set...
It was mostly components who needed the coms and the coms also helped to set up the structure if you wanted it to...

But I haven't ever really found a great need for SEF....
I seem to do just fine on my search engine ranks considering how I don't update the site very often...

[AmyStephen]

Mike -

I know you are in close contact with the devs, so, when you say things, it is just like hearing it from them. But, I'm not certain what you mean exactly with that post.

Are you saying that the SEF URLs in v 1.5 core are not going to work for legacy extensions? And, that if people want this capability, they would have to install a product like OpenSEF and use it in addition to core SEF URL functionality?

Thanks!
Amy

[Asphyx]

Most if not all of my contact with the devs are done right here in the forums! So I don't know why you would think I'm very close to the Devs. If I know anything about the project it is because I am not afraid to ask them questions about issues when they come up on the boards!

Are you saying that the SEF URLs in v 1.5 core are not going to work for legacy extensions?

No! No one can say for sure (maybe not even the J! Devs at this point of Beta) in a blanket statement what ALL legacy extentions will or will not do under the new framework. It's going to be a matter of some do and some don't no matter what you are talking about!

But if you think about it logically you can predict reasonably well for an individual project! If a legacy project currently is written in a way that requires OpenSEF well then it is a pretty good bet that it does not have code to use any J! SEF hooks and so will still require some SEF component! Just like many extentions will require the legacy layer to be enabled to work!

Now that doesn't mean EVERY component that needs OSEF will still require it either!
you will have to determine on a case by case basis until we get to the point where the legacy layer is no longer needed and every extention used is 1.5 aware and written to take advantage of all the new perks in that framework.

But it is not really possible to make a blanket statement about ALL extentions at this point! What I can say is that it should be a lot easier to tweak these extentions to make it work without these SEF coms now that the J! devs have standardized how SEF in J! works and removed the need for rewrite in htaccess! Some legacy extentions will work...but I am also sure some will not and it is those that an SEF helper (maybe a less comprehensive one) will be needed!

And, that if people want this capability, they would have to install a product like OpenSEF and use it in addition to core SEF URL functionality?

they wouldn't HAVE to...they also have the option of finding another project that does the task that does not require an SEF augmenting program. Others may work right off the bat because the new system doesn't require re-write. since the conversion is done in J! as long as the component doesn't point to direct links using the old structure they might easily work without!

Thats the problem when your discussing a beta and legacy. until you know how each component will act you can't say definitvly what will happen.
But I'm willing to bet that in cases where the legacy layer is required to run a program it is also going to be required that you run all the legacy components required under the old system.

At some point (by J! 2.0 lets say) users should have their system and extentions updated so they no longer need the legacy layer, and therefore all extentions will be 1.5 feature aware and no longer need these helper apps since the J! system has it standard.

But that time won't happen until well after 1.5 is stable!

[AmyStephen]

But it is not really possible to make a blanket statement about ALL extentions at this point!

LOL! I suppose you are right on that!

Thanks, Mike, your comments were indeed helpful.

[brian]

This reminds us why open source software is so important.

Because of the GPL licence anyone is able to take the opensef code and continue working on it.

In fact if my memory serves me correctly OpenSEF itself is a development based on a previous piece of code.

[trichnosis]

Hi

i have checked the Roadmap for opensef 5 minutes ago .

The start of roadmap is related with perfect improvement for opensef_rc6 and the end of the roadmap is related with questions about opensef is dead or not

that's very intresting

[Asphyx]

This is how misinformation and rumors start...

First off the link you gave was not the roadmap it was a thread posting the link to the roadmap....
the questions about it being dead were posted by users!

And if you had read the rest of this thread you might have also noticed Amy's link that pointed you to the fact that OpenSEF might not even be needed anymore which is why MAYBE you haven't heard anything about it!

Marko has said he is busy...OpenSEF as it stands works with 1.0.X! May not be needed for 1.5 and if it is it is unlikely that anyone will start developing an SEF plug until 1.5 is at least a stable and the J! way of doing SEF is explored!

This is one of the biggest problems with Open source users if you ask me...
They always want Predictions, Estimates, Regular notices, Deadlines, Assurances and immediate support!

Well volunteerism doesn't work that way! Give Marko and the team some slack and stop worrying about what you might use in 1.5 until at least the first RC is released!

IF there is a problem with 1.5 and SEF I promise you SOME ONE will work it out! Looks like the J! devs already did in fact!
Look at all the hullabaloo in regards to SMF being bridged in 1.5 and you will see how all these panic attacks are just plain dumb!
I mean someone actually made a damn petition to the J Devs over that one! And it turns out the only problem was a programmer who didn't know how 1.5 worked because he tried developing a 1.5 application while it was still in beta phase!

So why don't we all just pop some valium and relax about what might happen in a month or two or a year or two...LOL
Open Source finds a way to solve all it's problems...all it ever requires is time and a few determined devs!

[brian]

Open Source finds a way to solve all it's problems...all it ever requires is time and a few determined devs!

Great one can i save this quote and use it again sometime

[AmyStephen]

Mike -

What I understand this thread to be about is the *desire* for information - that's why the questions are being asked, people are seeking answers to avoid misinformation and rumors. It is always appreciated to have an announcement, but, I understand even announcements can be problematic.

I am going to take a stab at this without the benefit of an announcement. Would you please confirm or correct my statements? It seems you have inside information on this.

Marko and KenMcD have not provided support in the OpenSEF forums since November (that's a fact). The OpenSEF forum is still "open" but they are not planning to provide daily support any longer. Community members are encouraged to help one another with questions and problems. Additionally, OpenSEF is not under further development. But, if something major happened (i.e., a security problem), Marko plans to fix it and distribute a new release. Development has stopped because Joomla! v 1.5 will have improved SEF URLs and OpenSEF will not be needed (noting the obvious exceptions you indicated for legacy, above.)

If that is true, this is good news for the Joomla! community as a whole. It makes sense to me and there is nothing for people to be alarmed about. Having said that, knowing this information helps set expectations and temporary support solutions can be found.

+++

Edit: Modifying my post to avoid spreading misinformation. See Marko's post, below, or in the OpenSEF form . OpenSEF is planned for Joomla! v 1.5.

+++

Thanks, Mike. (And MUCH thanks to Marko and KenMcD for ALL they have done - hours and hours and THOUSANDS of hours in this tool!)

Amy


PS - my view of our community is a bit more positive. I do not share your summary of why that goofy SMF Bridge discussion got off track and I do not care to debate it, either. I agree with you that a petition started but it was an extremely small set of community members who started it, egged on by a troll. The end of the story is equally important, a small set of community members stopped it, too! This community can work out its problems and not engage in long, unproductive arguments. We mess up sometimes, but, it's a GOOD community we have. I know we agree on that! Thanks, again.

[Predator]

Interesting what kind of statements are here posted, as i wrote today on my forum:

I was often away for Joomla! (div. Joomla! Days etc)
I was involved in Bugfixing for the Joomla! 1.0.12 Version (yes i also have to work here )
I'm since august a freelancer and working on custom projects to get money for food.
I was on holiday during the chrismastime to visit family.
I was sick in October and currently having a flu (maybe the old one is back?), but getting better.

What happen to Ken? I don't know.

As i'm the coder from both of us i will continue coding on OpenSEF, but as you see above lots things have happen which
needs to update the plans for OpenSEF (Roadmap) to give you all information about a new timeline.

There will come a Version for Joomla! 1.5, the SEF in Joomla! 1.5 is much more improved, but still not that flexible as many want, as this needs a new structure and this will come with Joomla! 2.0, so there is still a "market" for 3rd party SEF Components for J! 1.5

 

[AmyStephen]

Marko -

There will be an OpenSEF for Joomla! v 1.5. OK. Good to know.

Your work for and support of the Joomla! community is important and much appreciated. I hope Ken is well, he has contributed a great deal to Joomla! and we are in debt to him, as well. Your announcement here and in your forum will be helpful.

Take care of yourself. That is what is most important.

Thanks much,
Amy 


Edit: See Marko's post, above, or in the OpenSEF form . OpenSEF is planned for Joomla! v 1.5.

[Asphyx]

Great one can i save this quote and use it again sometime

LOL Sure Brian!

What I understand this thread to be about is the *desire* for information

I know Amy...the information is not something your entitled to simply because you installed an OS product!
And a LACK of information doesn't give you the right to just make up your own stories!

If people need information on a daily or weekly basis I suggest they subscribe to a newspaper!

But to start making rumors that something is DEAD simply because their insatiable curiosity was not quenched according to their schedule due to the demands and lack of time in a developer's schedule is just wrong! It foster's mis-information and panic which  leads others who are content with what they have to get worried also!

We should be thankful we have what we have!
Making demands for more is not our right!
We are entitled to get full value of what we paid for!
Since we pay NOTHING for these programs we are entitled to exactly NOTHING!

We should all be happy that there was ANY OpenSEF and not start demanding more than the Devs are prepared to give!

Now that Marko has made a statement on the issue what I hope to see is everyone who got involved and started threads all over the net about the status of OpenSEF will now make a post on every board they posted on to spread the good news!

As I previously mentioned the SMF situation, there were multiple threads on multiple boards all announcing and complaining about the possibility of no bridge for SMF...I have followed and tracked down most of these threads and not ONE of them save the ones I posted in has made any postings that the problem was all a big misunderstanding and the fears were premature! So the doomsday scenario still exists for anyone who reads those threads!

I don't have problems with people wanting information but they start these rumors and then when the information does get to them they don't bother to spread the information to get rid of the info they made up waiting for the real skinny!

So all you are left with are 20 posts of conjecture and rumor and one post with the TRUTH!
This is not good for Open Source! False information is worse than no information at all if you ask me!

Devs don't spend every second of every day just to satisfy our own selfish needs! They have their own needs to deal with!
We need to stop making demands on them and forcing them to hand hold us and kiss us whenever we feel the need to be kissed!
Maybe if we all tried to do as much in our lives as these Devs do we might be more understanding and not complain so much because we too wouldn't have the time to think of new information we need! We would all be too busy to read! And make stuff up!

[kenmcd]

Interesting discussion.

Answer:

Marko took a break for food (see above).
2+ months.
Now he is back (with obvious time constraints).
He posted a new test version of RC6 in our Testers Forum this week.

Richard took a break.
2+ months.
His daytime job dumped massive work on him.
Still buried.
Hope he surfaces soon.

Ken McDonald took a break. (that's me)
2+ months.
Now I am back (mostly).
Computer crashed Nov. 18, 2006.
Turned it off then.
Took a break.
Did other things with my time.

Turned the computer back on Feb.1, 2007.
Currently rebuilding computer from drive crash.
Luckily recovered/saved almost all the data.
Reinstalling all software from absolute zero.
Loads of fun.

OpenSEF is alive.
Just took a little nap.
Odd that we all did it at the same time.
Call it what you want - the need to earn a living, open source burnout, a needed rest.

As Dr. Frankenstein said, "Its alive, its alive!"

[AmyStephen]

Welcome back, Ken!    :-*  You've been missed.

Thanks so much for all you do for us.
Amy

[Tom-182]

Dear Marko & Ken.
Thank you for your amazing contribution to the community. Hope you'll both always in good condition  .

@ Marko
Hows your internet connection? Have you get a steady internet connection in your new place?

[juicyfruit]

hi all,

Just wondering about open-sef, since its been a year.

I know its currently hosted with sigsiu.net and sobi2.

But the following sites don't list it. Its still a great solution.

http://forge.joomla.org/sf/projects/opensef
http://www.open-sef.org
http://projects.j-prosolution.com/en/pr ... ensef.html
extensions.joomla.org

Anyway, just thought it is a great effort and would be a waste not to have exposure.

cheers
Ed

[pe7er]

Just wondering about open-sef, since its been a year.

see: NuSEF (a "rescue" of the popular OpenSEF component)
http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/