Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

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Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by raeldc » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:09 am

I just want to start this thread to continue a potentially Interesting discussion of Chette's comment on another thread.

She suggested (or perhaps really pushing it) to stop Girls-as-Muses comments/mentality. She mentioned that a lot of us do not know yet that it's "offensive", politically incorrect & unprofessional.

Enlighten us on this Chette, guys here don't want to disrespect any woman. Actually for many of us, when we say the Women are the "Muse" we just think they're special. It's a form of adoration and appreciation. Women makes the day brighter especially whenever there are fellowships where there are just mostly guys. Men feel complete when there is a woman around. They have someone to protect, someone to adore, and of course someone to tease  :laugh:.

Now of course there are some extremes like you mentioned, were women were labeled "Chicks of...". I think it went over the limit.

But for us guys, it's so much fun to see women do things that usually men gets interested with.

And 1 more thing, "offensive, politically incorrect & unprofessional" is a very relative notion especially on gender issues. I might be giving you a cake purely out of goodwill, but you think it's an insult. Would you bash me about it?

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by chette » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:22 am

Sure you can give me a cake if you want to.

Did I answer your question?

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by Jdam » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:46 am

Really nice initiative @raeldc. I guess it is time for us to discuss this kind of issue together with our ladies. Everyone who will post on this thread shall respect everyone opinion, respect the rights & feeling of pinay & pinoy. Hopefully we will not end up for nothing. Lets be all open minded & the result of this issue shall be the new rule. If the ladies decision is not to use the term "muse" maybe we can filter that word in the future. And also let the boys know what is only allowed for them to use.

for all pinoy & pinay free yourself & express what is in your heart.

=Open Source Matter=

yan ang pinoy  ;)

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by ericb » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:54 am

kakatakot dito  :'( :'( :'(
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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by maverick25 » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:26 pm

Technically speaking, a muse is a source of inspiration, a guiding genius especially in literature, the arts and sciences that was typically characterized by a beautiful woman (thanks to Greek mythology). Sadly, over the past few years, its definition has been degraded to mean "girls who wear mini-skirts, holds the team flag, and usually represent sport teams" as remarked by Chette in another thread. And worst, male-dominated forums plastering photos of these women in threads with titles like "The Chicks of ___".

For a feminist, that would be "offensive, politically incorrect & unprofessional." But for a woman who's been mostly in the company of men, it's often regarded as a phase that you've got to learn to accept. It's true that some crosses the line and it's up to you, as the woman, to discern if it's still worth staying in the group, in this case, a male-dominated event. Remember, it's the woman who has this power over these men - so use it. If you think you're too weak to pit charm against skill, then leave. If you think you can handle it, then stay and you'll be rewarded (pampered may be a better word hahaha!). And if they start teasing you, you already had them by their noses. ;)  :D
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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by chette » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:46 pm

Haha! Sometimes, it's not even as deep as that ;)

Simply put, if a man or a woman participates in an event as a professional, he or she may not want to be labeled as a Muse just because he or she is in the minority. Unfortunately, if a girl speaks up about the issue, some people will label her as an uber-feminist. But its simply a matter of respect -- and should work for both males & females.

Some girls enjoy it, some don't. Some guys don't understand why, some merely pretend not to understand. If you don't "get it" within the past few posts, you probably never will.

But really, does it really matter? It's a free world. Feel free to call others how you would like to call them. In all communities, its all a matter of who can stand who. Heck, only one female spoke out about it. Its not like you offended the others, right? The rest might've gotten flattered ;)

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by maverick25 » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:06 pm

chette wrote: But its simply a matter of respect -- and should work for both males & females.
I agree with you. The bottomline: respect.

As a minority, whether you're labeled as a Muse or not, it all boils down to how you handle the situation - and like what you said, "its all a matter of who can stand who."
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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by guilliam » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:26 am

..Some girls enjoy it, some don't.
i think the quote above summarizes it all. maski naman ako kung ako lang ang nag iisang lalaki sa groupo ayaw ko rin ma labael as the thorn among the roses ;)

however back in college(where i was in a college where female to male ratio is 1male is equals to 10 females) i just got used to it ;)

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by maverick25 » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:21 am

guilliam wrote: however back in college(where i was in a college where female to male ratio is 1male is equals to 10 females) i just got used to it ;)
i share the same sentiments, especially if you're the only female developer in the male-dominated systems and programming department - even went to the point of being labeled as "one of the guys". eventually, as guilliam said, you "just got used to it"  :D
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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by ladybug5674 » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:30 am

Personaly I enjoy being treated like a lady. I don't think of myself as a feminist and I tend to be a little traditional (not completly) I've always enjoyed talking to men more than other women and Iget along with men better as well. I dont know why (any idea?). Besides it depends on the circumstances the word is being used in. A word not appropriate in public I feel is in private.CIRCUMSTANCE & CONTEXT

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by raeldc » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:13 am

One reason I may never understand it is this: it's becoming pretty common nowadays for women to do what men usually do. That's generally accepted and in our culture, there's nothing fishy about that.

But when a man does what women do.. our culture will say there's something fishy :).

There's a trend among women, a "feminist" trend I could say, to show the world that they are not "inferior" to men. That's the reason why a lot of women are now doing what men usually do - some do it out of sheer interest, passion, and of course just mere woman's "pride". A perfect example of this would be the attempt this year of some Pinays to climb Mount Everest.

I see nothing wrong about doing the things that man can do. It only becomes wrong if the motivation of women is to just "prove" that they can do it. It is wrong if the motivation behind their actions is the belief that if they don't do it, "they are inferior". Civilized men do not regard women as inferior, only different. But some, if not most of these "feminists" view comments or treatments that distinguish women as "sexists" attitude. There are also some feminists who go to some "extremes" even as to say that there should be a woman's Bible that replaces the terms "Father" as Mother, Him as Her, He as She, since God they believe has no Gender. And when they see terms such as "man" which was used to refer to humanity, they fret and say it should be "man and woman", "his/her","he/she".

I do not think that we should just say "some enjoy it, some don't". We must know the motivation behind why they do or don't enjoy it. We must aim for a better understanding among the sexes, and to clarify sensitive areas so as to avoid offending others. We must be open minded, perhaps there's something wrong with other's mentality - then tell them what's wrong. Or perhaps there's something wrong with ours - which is often the case, we must be prepared to change our mind. Conflicts arise when misunderstanding is mixed with potent pride.

The key to understand each other, and avoid conflicts is to understand words on how the speaker meant it, not how the words mean to you. Words can mean different things to different people. Like Ladybug said - CONTEXT.
Last edited by raeldc on Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by chette » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:34 am

raeldc wrote: I do not think that we should just say "some enjoy it, some don't". We must know the motivation behind why they do or don't enjoy it. We must aim for a better understanding among the sexes, and to clarify sensitive areas so as to avoid offending others. We must be open minded, perhaps there's something wrong with other's mentality - then tell them what's wrong. Or perhaps there's something wrong with ours - which is often the case, we must be prepared to change our mind. Conflicts arise when misunderstanding is mixed with potent pride.
This guy is a rare breed -- a male feminist (or "equalist," as I would like to say). I don't think I have seen many guys who think the way he does, who even goes out of his way to defend female-kind. Some women don't even go to this extent -- especially in our country. I know a lot of women who would just shut up than to voice what they are feeling.

For example, from this forum alone (not the Pinoy forums ... but the entire community in general), I can't count the number of times I was harassed, sent porn links, and webcam links. And I think others receive those too. How many actually spoke up and gave them a piece of their minds?

Why do some people actually enjoy it? There are a hundred reasons -- age, insecurity, lack of experience, got flattered, believing that being singled out as a woman is a feat, glorifies herself in using the phrase "I am the first woman who blah blah blah." I personally interviewed a prostitute who told me that she is not degrading herself, but rather empowering herself, by selling her body in exchange for money.

On the other side of the subjects, there is a male who met women who love these things, and use it to his advantage. And think that others would react the same way. To whoever you are (& I know you are reading this), I apologize -- but I am not one of those people. Use your techniques on another woman. It will just be wasted on me. (O yan, naging controversial na ... matatalo na ang Kris Aquino - James Yap intriga.)

Teka ha, at baka ma-guilty na naman si ericb: Eric, ibang topic na to ha. We are already talking about the extreme cases. Not the one-liner that we exchanged in another thread. That was really nothing really.

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by guilliam » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:15 am

For example, from this forum alone (not the Pinoy forums ... but the entire community in general), I can't count the number of times I was harassed, sent porn links, and webcam links. And I think others receive those too. How many actually spoke up and gave them a piece of their minds?
in the PM's there is a button that says "Report To Admin". its just one click away and we(as forum workgroup) will take care of it.

have you clicked on the "Report To Admin" link if you recv those kind of obscenity or harassing pm's?

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by ericb » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:52 pm

guilliam wrote:
..Some girls enjoy it, some don't.
i think the quote above summarizes it all. maski naman ako kung ako lang ang nag iisang lalaki sa groupo ayaw ko rin ma labael as the thorn among the roses ;)

however back in college(where i was in a college where female to male ratio is 1male is equals to 10 females) i just got used to it ;)

- g
basta wag na wag lang akong tatawaging [spam] pag ako lang ang lalaki with many ladies surrounding me...  :laugh:
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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by ericb » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:55 pm

chette wrote:
raeldc wrote: I do not think that we should just say "some enjoy it, some don't". We must know the motivation behind why they do or don't enjoy it. We must aim for a better understanding among the sexes, and to clarify sensitive areas so as to avoid offending others. We must be open minded, perhaps there's something wrong with other's mentality - then tell them what's wrong. Or perhaps there's something wrong with ours - which is often the case, we must be prepared to change our mind. Conflicts arise when misunderstanding is mixed with potent pride.
This guy is a rare breed -- a male feminist (or "equalist," as I would like to say). I don't think I have seen many guys who think the way he does, who even goes out of his way to defend female-kind. Some women don't even go to this extent -- especially in our country. I know a lot of women who would just shut up than to voice what they are feeling.

For example, from this forum alone (not the Pinoy forums ... but the entire community in general), I can't count the number of times I was harassed, sent porn links, and webcam links. And I think others receive those too. How many actually spoke up and gave them a piece of their minds?

Why do some people actually enjoy it? There are a hundred reasons -- age, insecurity, lack of experience, got flattered, believing that being singled out as a woman is a feat, glorifies herself in using the phrase "I am the first woman who blah blah blah." I personally interviewed a prostitute who told me that she is not degrading herself, but rather empowering herself, by selling her body in exchange for money.

On the other side of the subjects, there is a male who met women who love these things, and use it to his advantage. And think that others would react the same way. To whoever you are (& I know you are reading this), I apologize -- but I am not one of those people. Use your techniques on another woman. It will just be wasted on me. (O yan, naging controversial na ... matatalo na ang Kris Aquino - James Yap intriga.)

Teka ha, at baka ma-guilty na naman si ericb: Eric, ibang topic na to ha. We are already talking about the extreme cases. Not the one-liner that we exchanged in another thread. That was really nothing really.
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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by Jdam » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:06 pm

ericb wrote: basta wag na wag lang akong tatawaging [spam] pag ako lang ang lalaki with many ladies surrounding me...  :laugh:
yun lang pre  :P "[spam]" @eric I guess that will be another issue lol  :laugh: hahaha

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by ericb » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:09 pm

Jdam wrote:
∓quot;eric"\ wrote: basta wag na wag lang akong tatawaging [spam] pag ako lang ang lalaki with many ladies surrounding me...  :laugh:
yun lang pre  :P "[spam]" @eric I guess that will be another issue lol  :laugh: hahaha

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by ladybug5674 » Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:07 pm

We give god gender becaus its human nature to.makes it eaiser to beleave in. To the gent who said use my tech on other women. 1. I dont swing that way never have, never will. If you didnt meen it like that, sorry. It doesnt matter what name you give god he is one being belonging to no one religion. Amer. Women will speak their minds and pity the man who tries to stop us.

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by guilliam » Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:56 am

MOD NOTICE: pls refrain involving religion on the discussion. gender issue is already a sensitive subject, i dont want to be forced to lock the thread ;)

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by ladybug5674 » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:38 pm

Ok, sorry someone mentioned the feminist refering to god as she in a post and responded.so maybe thay should refrain as well.

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by guilliam » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:34 am

ladybug5674 wrote: Ok, sorry someone mentioned the feminist refering to god as she in a post and responded.so maybe thay should refrain as well.
off topic ako konti; punta po kayo today as u.p. diliman for the joomla event?

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by ladybug5674 » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:49 am

Like i said g your buddies mentioned this stuff first not me. You are the one trying to pick a fight w/ me not the other way around.

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by ericb » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:00 am

maybe we can stop the discussion to avoid misunderstanding. :)
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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by raeldc » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:53 pm

Ladybug, I courteously want to tell you that you gravely misunderstood my post. I made a book as an example, that's the Bible. It's a religious book, but there is no way I was talking about religion. I was talking about feminists who doesn't like using male pronouns in books or in any form of writing.

This discussion is for clarifying how women feel when men treat them in some way. If we avoid discussing this, we risk more misunderstandings in the future.

Sayang lang at parang naudlot ang magandang usapan . . .
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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by ultimoAdios » Sat May 19, 2007 11:49 pm

What Fishy?
But when a man does what women do..
Can you please specify women are doing that if I do it became fishy?
What Culture?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture
...our culture will say there's something fishy :).
What part of our culture would say its fishy?
-------------------------
Well, here's my preliminary understanding:
...all I can say is..."kapag babae may bigote yan ay lalake"
it's becoming pretty common nowadays for women to do what men usually do
FACT:
In the U.S. during the second world war, when American men working force went to join the war, women filled the void. Later, women filled in the sports too--baseball league for instance. Baseball league was played by women.
There's a trend among women, a "feminist" trend I could say, to show the world that they are not "inferior" to men.
This is not a trend. Women's struggle was started long time ago. Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_hi ... d_equality
That's the reason why a lot of women are now doing what men usually do - some do it out of sheer interest, passion, and of course just mere woman's "pride".
Where did you get this fact? Can you tell me who did this study or research? "on the Reasons Why Lot of women are now doing what men do?"  You know what? Women do what men are doing now because they have the FREEDOM to do it! 
"It only becomes wrong if the motivation of women is to just "prove" that they can do it. It is wrong if the motivation behind their actions is the belief that if they don't do it, "they are inferior".
Who are we to judge if their motivation  is right or wrong? Women should always do extraordinary things and always prove something to protect what they have earned  from some men who think otherwise. Men needed to always be reminded.
Civilized men do not regard women as inferior, only different.
I don't think women are different. Women are not different. They are human being like me. They need to be respected.

Lastly,
The key to understand each other, and avoid conflicts is to understand words on how the speaker meant it, not how the words mean to you. Words can mean different things to different people. Like Ladybug said - CONTEXT.
To avoid conflict is to shut up...  And always expect people to misinterpret you or misconstrued you or just want to hear what they wanted to hear.
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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by raeldc » Thu May 31, 2007 8:16 am

Whoah,I didn't know someone would still reply on this thread. I think I'm obligated to respond to ultimoAdios's post.
Can you please specify women are doing that if I do it became fishy?
Wearing make up, wearing feminine clothes, collecting dolls. Fishy in the sense that people might interpret the person as "Bading".
What part of our culture would say its fishy?
I don't wanna delve deeper into this "part of our culture". Suffice it to say that many of us Filipinos would think someone is gay just by their appearance and their actions. Of course I didn't do a scientific research about this. It's just based on my experience.

-------------------------
Well, here's my preliminary understanding:
...all I can say is..."kapag babae may bigote yan ay lalake"
All I can say is, there are women who have some genetic defects who have bigote and they're not lalake.

it's becoming pretty common nowadays for women to do what men usually do
FACT:
In the U.S. during the second world war, when American men working force went to join the war, women filled the void. Later, women filled in the sports too--baseball league for instance. Baseball league was played by women.
What's your point?
There's a trend among women, a "feminist" trend I could say, to show the world that they are not "inferior" to men.
This is not a trend. Women's struggle was started long time ago. Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_hi ... d_equality
This is still a trend nevertheless since feminist groups are still fighting for their rights. The trend just happen to start long time ago. If not because of them, men wouldn't wake up to the fact that men and women are created equal. Thanks to them, women now have equal rights.
That's the reason why a lot of women are now doing what men usually do - some do it out of sheer interest, passion, and of course just mere woman's "pride".
Where did you get this fact? Can you tell me who did this study or research? "on the Reasons Why Lot of women are now doing what men do?"  You know what? Women do what men are doing now because they have the FREEDOM to do it! 
Whoah, I should have been more careful with my choice of words. I'm not claiming it as a fact backed up by scientific papers, but as a personal interpretation of what's happening around me. Now, not having a paper written about it doesn't mean my statement is untrue. You could actually observe it for yourself. Saying that women do what they're doing coz they have freedom to do it is tantamount to saying we speak because we have vocal chords, or that we walk because we have feet, and there's space to walk on. Can't you see that I'm trying to make a point about feminist motivation? And not the vehicle that drives them to realize their motive?
"It only becomes wrong if the motivation of women is to just "prove" that they can do it. It is wrong if the motivation behind their actions is the belief that if they don't do it, "they are inferior".
Who are we to judge if their motivation is right or wrong? Women should always do extraordinary things and always prove something to protect what they have earned  from some men who think otherwise. Men needed to always be reminded.
We can actually judge it's right or wrong just by seeing that their motivation is wrong. It's stupid to just do something because "I wanna prove men wrong that women inferior". In the first place, civilized men do not think women are inferior, so the premise of their motivation is wrong. You should have seen my statement in the light of the context of my post.
Civilized men do not regard women as inferior, only different.
I don't think women are different. Women are not different. They are human being like me. They need to be respected.
Again, you are misunderstanding me. We as individuals are different aren't we? Yet we're all human beings. Men and Women have fundamental differences, and also fundamental similarities, like being human.

The difference is not a matter of who's inferior or superior. The difference is more on what one can do more efficiently.

Lastly,
The key to understand each other, and avoid conflicts is to understand words on how the speaker meant it, not how the words mean to you. Words can mean different things to different people. Like Ladybug said - CONTEXT.
To avoid conflict is to shut up...  And always expect people to misinterpret you or misconstrued you or just want to hear what they wanted to hear.
We can actually talk and not be in conflict. We can actually disagree without being disagreeable. And yes I kinda expect that people will misunderstand me, it happened a lot in this forum.

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ultimoAdios
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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by ultimoAdios » Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:09 am

raeldc wrote: Whoah,I didn't know someone would still reply on this thread. I think I'm obligated to respond to ultimoAdios's post.
raeldc, the thread you started is controversial  topic that  interest me. Unluckily I was not here when it was still hot. I just noticed it lately. Thanks for your reply.
Can you please specify women are doing that if I do it became fishy?
Wearing make up, wearing feminine clothes, collecting dolls. Fishy in the sense that people might interpret the person as "Bading".
I never came up with that. I agree.
What part of our culture would say its fishy?
I don't wanna delve deeper into this "part of our culture". Suffice it to say that many of us Filipinos would think someone is gay just by their appearance and their actions. Of course I didn't do a scientific research about this. It's just based on my experience.
Wherever you are in this world, effeminate behavior can be judged or interpreted as what you mentioned "bading". This type of stereotyping is not just a Filipino kind of thing. This is international --travel around the world and you will know what I mean. In the United States for example there are people who interpreted such behavior as "MALASWA" "KALASWAAN", "MAKASALANAN". In fact, you will be killed or harmed or even deny your basic human rights for such behavior. With that there is a law that it is a crime to discriminate against sexual orientation.

Well, here's my preliminary understanding:
...all I can say is..."kapag babae may bigote yan ay lalake"
All I can say is, there are women who have some genetic defects who have bigote and they're not lalake.
Yes, you are right (literally)...but what I said has it's background. I suggest you listen to Apo Hiking Society's song titled Salawikain so you will get what i meant.
it's becoming pretty common nowadays for women to do what men usually do
FACT:
In the U.S. during the second world war, when American men working force went to join the war, women filled the void. Later, women filled in the sports too--baseball league for instance. Baseball league was played by women.
What's your point?
My point? It is not a trend! It has been happening long time ago when women are allowed to do something. In Saudi Arabia for example can women do what men do? They cannot even drive a car. That is my point.

The rest of the argument? I call it a rest.

Lastly, all I can say is that your president is a woman. What's the difference between those men presidents that came before her? You know what? She is even much stronger, much cunning and I think so much smarter than her predecessors. Look she's a woman! Her will be done! Siya ang MUSE ng Malakanyang!
Day 12: while driving around with Red Barchetta (nightly) in the cyberstreets.

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by chikadik » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:59 pm

what's the subject matter in here ??? :pop

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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by Jdam » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:41 am

nabasag ang katahimikan ng dumating ka lolz....


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Re: Probing the Woman's Mind: Girls as Muses

Post by chikadik » Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:27 pm

nyahahaha!! weL i think itz `bout time na mabasag ang katahimekan here :laugh: baka sa sobrang tahemek here ay na stroke na pla mga ibang memberz. l0lx!!  :laugh: :laugh: JUK!! :laugh: :pop

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